Why do we need a madhab?

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Sorry missed that if you asked above.

I do not think any of these madhab imam was alive during the prophet saw days.

*What do you think these madhab imams derive sunnah from? *

22

But they were closer to Prophet sallallhu alayhi wasallam than the rest who came after them and obviously the ones who have come in the last 100 years (ie the salafis) and the ones who have no knowledge of Arabic let alone Quran and Hadith. That includes all of us.

23

I'm not sure what you're asking? Sorry.

24

How close, Closer than Sahaba (RZA)?

Isn't is our job to seek enough knowledge of Arabic to seek guidance from Quran and Sunnah, i mean we do spend years in learning english ( knew some friends who had big problems getting graduate because of English) why can't we spend few months to learn Arabic?

25

Nice and agree with bolded part.

They way one can see madhabs is like:

Different decent garment shops.

You can buy decent clothes from any shop. All are decent.

Why follow just one madhab?

By the way, if shia have anything good to say then follow it? What is wrong with that?

26

Dear Brother,

The discussion at hand is that the so-called fractions/cult are mere difference of opinions and that is it... and you were saying that even Sahaba (RZA) had difference of opinions, and i agree this particular statement, even Sahaba (RZA) differed and objected on Prophet (SAAW) ( the formation of troops in the battle of Badr).. But like these major fractions we have!!! which supposedly are based on difference of OPINION, do we have any cult/fraction which is based on the DIFFERENCE OF OPINION among the SAHABA, is there any school of thought based on this very difference of OPINION? this is what i am asking...

I am sorry i was not clear, i hope i am now, the intention of the questions is to learn only...

27

Re: Why do we need a madhab?

Madhabs are inevitable. They were not intended to be like they are now. Madhabs astarted as schools of thought, like thesis of scholars on particular problems.

Its also simplistic to think that the 4 Imams formulated the 4 madhabs. A lot of work in every madhab was done by the students of imams.

We should consider the madhabs as different facets of our religion and embrace them all. This should not be limited to just 4 schools only, a lot of work has been done by scholars who were contemporaries of imams or their students, we should not disown them too.

28

the reason i didn't touched it is that there other reasons that Shia has parted their ways from the main-stream..

otherwise i agree to the non-bold part of your post, All the Imams and other Scholars of Islams should be respected but not followed blindly....

29

You said it all...

30

Imam Abu Hanifa has transmitted hadith from 16(known) sahaba, among them, Anas ibn Malik, Jabir ibn Abdullah, Sahl ibn Saad, Abdullah ibn Jafar, Abdullah ibn Abi Awfa (RZA). It is known that since Abu Hanfia (R) was closer to narration of sahaba and/or some sahaba that Hanafi madhab is much more widely practiced.

My point was that their closeness to the Sahaba was much stronger than our closeness is today because the narration was much stronger and much alive in the people of those days than the people of today. If you point out a layman like me and ask me to tell the chain of narration of any hadith, I'd fail miserably. But if you had asked those pious and great Imams or even some of the people in those times, they would tell you right away. You see where I'm getting at, we need the knowledge of Imams and the madhabs to stick to the sunnah. Without them you have a broken chain. Just like ahadith, without one or two sahaba in the chain, you have a broken chain. Tradition must carry on.

And it's not easy to learn the arabic of the Quran and write/read/understand the complexity of the language, not to mention in just a few months. I know students of deen who are becoming Alims, maybe you know some too, it's not something which can be learned part time.

Brother, let's not equate the sunnah as garment shop. :) Maybe a different example... let's use streams and river..? I've heard this example before.. 4 Imams= 4 streams leading to the 1 river = Sunnah of Prophet sallallhu alayhi wasallam and that river leading us to the Sea = Allah (SWT). :)

Now can you pick and choose which stream to travel on? Of course you can but only at the start because you can't jump stream to stream can you? :) There are matters in madhab, which are particular, when we pick and chose, we are doing it for our own pleasure not for the pleasure of Allah by following the sunnah.

Yes that is exactly why the need of madhabs. For example (brothers correct me if im forgetting the names).. Umar (RA) said if a man ejaculates in the bedroom of his wife then ghusl is not needed, but Abu Bakr(RA), Uthman (RA) and Ali (RA) said NO. So Umar(RA)'s opinion was outright rejected by all including the 4 Imams. Now let's say a layman picks up Buhkari sharif and finds this hadith, what do you think he'll do? :)

A hadith about those give rulings based on their limited or no knowledge (the knowledge without any understanding of the the religion)
"Whoever is given a legal opinion (fatwa) without knowledge, his sin is but upon the person who gave him the opinion" (Abu Dawud, 3.321)

Today we say we can understand our own Islam by reading the Quran. But most of us only read the translation of the Quran, and you know better than me that these translations are just translations, far from perfect.

This is one famous incident when a man asked Imam Ahmad(R) when is a man a scholar?:
"When a man has memorized 100,000 hadiths, is he a scholar of Sacred Law, a faqih?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "200,000 then?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "Then 300,000?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "400,000?" And Ahmad gestured with his hand to signify "about that many" (Ibn al-Qayyim).

This only gives us an idea of how much knowledge is required...

Same way unless we are planning to study deen seriously full time then I guess we could start deriving rulings... (though the serious students will be scared to death because trust me the knowledge these students (now scholars) attain, it only gives them assurance that following the great imams is where it's safe and not inventing something new..) :)

With all due respect, I think the Salafis have done a lot of damage to this ummah by introducing this fitna of "picking and choosing".. in the last century or so. Ask the great scholars, they'll tell you how it was like for their teachers and their teachers ... it was rare to find salafis like we do today (the likes of Zakir Naik et al).. IMO the saying "Petro Dollars at work" is true say..! All these fly to Saudi for their education, I wonder why... :)

31

From the Sahaba(ra) of Prophet(SAW)..... CP has answered very nicely I guess so there's no need for me to go in further details.

32

Oh no brother, we should follow them blindly because if we don’t then it will cause wars. :rolleyes:

33

as-salamu alaykum

Bismillah

@OP

laypeople like us don't have a math-hab (madhab) and if someone wants to follow one then that is fine too but it is not an obligation as some muqalids tend to say it. All you have to do is ask any person of knowledge who is known for knowledge, piety and trustworthiness. You could limit yourself to just one group of people of knowledge but that will make things harder for you. As long as you are trying to get a correct answer and do your utmost best to find the right person, you're free of any sins, insha'Allah.


though I do not agree with these wanabee salafis but blind muqalids haven't done any good either. Making obligatory upon people to follow one math-hab and blind taqleed of mullas, elders, etc. You think that haven't done any damage! Should I pull more incidents from history? But I think we can save that for later since our thoughts on this topic are more or less same.


smile Painting everyone with same brush! Much of the fiqh of these "100 years old" salafis is based upon hanbali math-hab. Almost all of scholars from whom these wannabee salafis take their fiqh from are hanablis. It's just that poor laymen don't know that thing. So now what, hanablis are wrong but hanafis are right, horray! You're making the same mistake which those salafis make: going to extreme instead of being just and fair.

and Allah knows best

34

walaykum as-salam bro,

no bro, I'm not saying that. I know what you say about them following Imam Ahmad is truth, so the natural question would be why do they not just follow Imam Ahmad? Why the need to pick and choose? If you ask me, these salafis put their egos before anything,* claiming *to follow Quran and Sunnah. And you are correct in saying that there is an extreme on the madhab camp as well where they end up fighting just cuz they see a salafi trying to engage in discussion. I was like that too.

35


as-salamu alaykum

akh al-kareem, there are couple of reasons for that:

1) It is Agreed upon by majority of fuqha that layman, people like us, don't have a math-hab even if he claims it. So just because I seek fatwas from hanbali scholars or you seek fatwas from hanafi scholars doesn't mean that I'm a hanabli and you're a hanafi. It just means that we have restricted ourselves to one group of scholars. To be a hanafi or hanabli means that you know in and out of your math-hab and have studied it with scholars.

2) They do follow understanding of hanabli math-hab to a large extent because they seek fatawas from scholar of hijaz and najd. Most people who say otherwise are laymen who have been informed wrong so they don't know what to say.

Allahu A'lam

36

walaykum as-salam,

  1. I guess there is a literal understanding/application of the term vs not-so literal but liberal (me) understanding/app. of the term. Example, I say I follow the Quran and Sunnah, but do I know both “in and out”? No but I still call myself follower of Quran & Sunnah. So the same way I say I’m hanafi even though I do not know the in-and-out of the madhab. Note: I only say im hanafi when seeking rulings regarding matters, not saying that it’s different from quran&sunnah when in reality former is following the latter.

  2. Fair enough.

:jazak:

37

Re: Why do we need a madhab?

I think most people have presented good arguments against the maintaining madahib IMO. Having a difference of opinion should not warrant the formation of a madhab. If that be the case why does everyone create such a fuss about further splitting these madahib based on more differences of opinion. We some how know its not beneficial to further split up and create factions but we are not willing to regress and eliminate the factions that currently exist. People would go hysterical if there was talk about forming more streams from Hanafi, Shaafii, Maliki and Hanbali. People would start cying murder if someone suggested that. On the same token we should work to actually eliminate these postulated differences among muslims.

Heck I would contend the average person who calls himself an adherent of any madhab that he is not even qualified to judge himself as one as he may not even know on which specific topics there were differences of opinion among the Imams of these madahib. Its like when scientisits come up with various theories to explain a phenomena and then put each ones theory to the test and critically examine it before accepting one and before 2 or more camps are formed regarding a certain theoretical dispute. However all those individuals are qualified enough to understand the reasons for their difference of opinion. Today we have almost every muslim associating with some madhab and they do know jack about why they are so and what is it that really differed between the Imams nor are they qualified to sit on a panel which would discuss the matter. The differences of such esteemed scholars is not for us to participate in and again none of their opinions have been sure-shot blessed by Allah SWT with evidence that cannot be denied. One should do what satifies his common sense and level of intellect unless it runs contrary to Islamic teachings in black and white. In grey areas any scholars opinion is good as any others.

38

Agree with you :k:

but how would one know something runs contrary to Islamic teachings? What are Islamic teachings? Like an example I mentioned, after intercourse, ghusl is not obligatory, would I follow that, no but it’s there in hadith books and would some new Muslim follow? Highly unlikely but a chance is there, though this is a bit extreme example.

Bro, forget about madhabs, Muslims don’t know the basics of tahara these days, it’s back to square 1 from here. :slight_smile:

39

When I asked the question I was referring to the fact that none of these four imams ever had spent time with or lived with the prophet SAW despite being close to the prophet saw time.

A person in these days has not only the information from quran and hadith but the work of all these imams.

If the person chooses to first bypass what these imams presented by directly searching the quran and hadiths and then look for ANY of these imams for guidance especially if the question is not answered, then the person still be a good muslim.

Whatever works for this individual's need should be acceptable.

Following any 'part' of these imams teachings should be considered valid and sticking to just one imam in every aspect of life is bound to create unnecessary difference.

Hence, my position.

No need to follow one school of thought all the way. People are adamant about sticking to one madhab and even consider it sin if someone does something based on other madhab teachings.

40

Your example is good also if one looks in another way. :)

What I meant that we consider all four to be good then why not follow all, part be part as it would fit the need and desire of an individual.

OK. instead of garment, make them jewelary shops or anything valuable and good.

Strictly following one madhab or imam has done nothing good to muslims collectively. I am not sure if even these imams wanted this to happen.

Also somewhere I read there were more than four imams and for some reason only four are famous.

You mentioned above a quote from a shiekh sahab, that everyone following different ways of islam based on his or her need will be devastating.

I beg to differ.

Nothing wrong in looking in to other idea and adopting it as long as major required acts are fulfilled.

Your example of 400000 hadiths may be valid (if there are 400,000 hadiths) But muslims are not supposed to be muftis for everyone.

They are suppose to follow life according to teachings of islam and major requirements.

Greay zone is open to interpretation for anyone. Like these imams themselves differ!