Why do we need a madhab?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Did anyone mention about thumbnails kissing? Isn’t that a brelvi method?

BTW:

What was the sect, fiqah or madhab of the prophet SAW?

Which sect these days is closest to him and his life?

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Re: Brelvi and Deobandi fiqh (Do we need them?)

Why do we have shafai, maaliki, hanafi, brelvi, deobandi, shia or whatever? And argue or make each other feel bad?

Why not we have "Mohammadi' SAW?

I submit: Never follow any one of these people. Find what you feel good in any of them. Make a mixture. You are good to go. :)

If I am of topic then by all means make it a thread of its own:

Why should a person follow one madhab or sect in Islam?

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1) Whenever i asked this question, was labeled As wahabi and wahabi labeled me as Pervaizi... this question did a miracle, it united Brelvies, Deobandies and wahabies against me... though i got page long answers but no one actually answered the question... so if anyone knows please let me know

2) Answer to the second is an Aya from Quran ( i don't exactly remember the reference) but the aya says something like, The Prophet (PBUH) has no relation whatsoever with the firqabaz or any activity creating division within the religion. further it adds that Allah has selected Islam as the religion...

Now in light of above Aya, i don't know what mind-set goes to different kind of Madhabs? why they follow persons and why Quran and Sunnah become secondary objects to them ( yes they don't admit it but in practice, Quran and Sunnah are secondary elements, the saying of their leader is by all mean supersede Quran and Sunnah)

One group says that, These Scholars have better understanding of Islam so we should refer to them, they understand religion better than us!!! hello, if this is the case then How Come Allah Subhan.o.tala says that the Quran is the best book for the people seeking guidance... as one of the attributes of the best book is that it can be understood by common man...

One more thing to be added in above para, if you observe closely, all the BATIL religion have one thing in common, they don't appreciate the religion scripture or activities to be in public, they sit on it and let no body go through or question it... Try to question something ( do it at ur own expense and if you are going to do it with brelvies, call an ambulance before opening your mouth) and the more you dig the more you frustrate them...

Islam is simple religion, strictly prohibit from few things... we the people have made it complex and that is just to have convince in our life...

PS: I am not pervaizi, nor ahmadi, nor qadyani, nor wahabi nor deobandi and certainly not brelvi or shia...

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Re: Why do we need a madhab?

It's like saying why do you follow Sunnah? The Sunnah of Prophet(SAW) came to us through these madahib. Please read the History of islamic law and hadith collection then you'd know how these schools developed. Which books you guys read to know the Sunnah?

Also, if everyone(deobandi, brelvi, wahabi etc) is agreeing on one thing then there are more chances of them being right.

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Causing division between muslims is one thing but having different opinions regarding one thing is different and allowed in Islam, infact, this is the beauty of Islam.

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This so-called Beauty of Islam has caused CIVIL-WARS amoung muslims, this has been one of the prime reason of the fall of Muslims....

Difference of Opinion is one thing, hatred based on this opinion is other... we have fueled the hatred and have seen the ugliest face of this difference of opinion...

Today a Beralvi do not pray in the mosque and/or behind Imam of any other school of thought... A group of extremist called lashkar-e-Jhangvi have killed so many innocents Shia while praying and vice-verse.

This beauty has caused more damage then good to the unity and faith of Ummah... Quran says killing innocent human is biggest crime ever, this beauty has made muslims practice this crime under the instruction of their so-called difference of Opinion...

Lately, we have blood-shed between Deobandi and Bravelies in Faisal Abad... so the quest continues.. who is right and who is wrong.. 1000 years have passed, still not determined... and it wouldn't be solved until the hour is established...

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Re: Why do we need a madhab?

Peace All

First, to clarify the wars were not a result of the factions, but rather some factions formed as a result of the wars.

Never has there been a war of any of the madhahib against one another. The wars were political and later due to the factions the alienation became pseudo-religious, but the motives have always been to control people and their allegience so the answer is the blame goes to the political arena.

Next ... the purpose for having a madhab is so you don't have to live in a life of contradiction. The religious scriptures are a sea of various waves, although the sea current is travelling in a general direction, some waves crash against each other. To sail across these waves you need a good navigator. To sail it across yourself you need to be a good navigator (mujtahid mutlaq) ... otherwise you will get caught out by the crashing waves.

So a madhab is a strong ship with a good navigator that will sail across the sea without meeting a crashing wave. Each ship will need to sail in its own way to get across.

So diwana there is nothing wrong at all with taking the best from each and making your own way, but according to the people who follow madhabs you need to be a mujtahid mutlaq to qualify.

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You have given the answer already in the bold part.

If people don't find any religious difference they'll find racial or class differences to fight over.

The differences among different schools is a blessing for those who want to follow Islam rather following their desires. If you look at the history, there were no fights among the four traditional schools of sunni islam that's why I stick to them instead of dividing further into different schools/sects, that's why I started the thread if we need more fiqh.

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Peace hanibal

Okay you have some examples. I also have examples.

There are imams from both Barelvi and Deobandi jamats that pray with and behind each other.

It happens across the UK. So what do we have here? Is your example a rule or is it an exception? If there are other mindsets then why aren't they taking root like I have described. It can't be because of the difference of opinion - it has to be because of the lack of maturity in handling that difference.

Furthermore, I accept you to deny madhabs, but you will not accept the madhabs so who is being more tolerant here ... the one who is ghair madhabi or the one who is not?

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:salam:

I hope this thread charts a good course. I am also one who is not an adherent of one particular madhab. I simply do not find the need to be one either. Like you said, if the objective is to get around the rocks and multiple navigators are capable of doing it with different ships then you can set sail with either one.

I do disgaree that each person requires to be a mujtahid to make a sound decision. Wisdom is not subject to knowledge though knowledge helps it. Wisdom is to make the best decision based on your circumstances rather than having the knowledge of all possible circumstances. We’ve only overcomplicated and shutout peoples normak day to day ability to make wise decisions in terms of religion. We make more it more complicated than it really ever gets in ones normal life.

My personal opinion is madhabs were based on shifting sands. They have a lot of overlap but also differences atrributable to different evidence. The Imams expanded on issues encountered during their times for which clear evidence did not exist. They did the most comprehensive job, which is why they are famous. Our times have different issues and many similar ones as well. I think one who understands the fundamentals properly and has done a reasonable amount of research on certain controversial issues can live through most circumstances satisfied by their own intellect.

Our problem is we look to scripture for too much and hesitate to use out God given intellect. The point of the scripture is to understand out bounds and operate within them with wisdom.

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Re: Why do we need a madhab?

Shaykh Abdal-Hakim Murad said it best:

With every Muslim now a proud mujtahid, and with taqlid dismissed as a sin rather than a humble and necessary virtue, the divergent views which caused such pain in our early history will surely break surface again. Instead of four madhhabs in harmony, we will have a billion madhhabs in bitter and self-righteous conflict. No more brilliant scheme for the destruction of Islam could ever have been devised. Understanding the Four Madhhabs (with footnotes)

www.madhabs.com

I find it funny and sad that people today think they understand religion more than all the big name scholars of the past 1400 years. They followed a madhab, are you more wiser than them?

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:salam: Bro

My objection is why should a difference of opinion need to be turned into a formal madhab. Each difference when formalized (whether sect or school of thought) creates a fraction of the religion.

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Walaykum as-salam,

Bro, if we established that all 4 schools of thought are from the sunnah then how would we see them as fractions of Islam? The sahaba had differences of opinion amongst themselves, were they creating fractions?

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Waleku As-As-Salam:

Brilliant posts!

I think this division in the name of madhab has gone too far. Some of it may be seen in other religions as well.

(Either we do not get to hear about the vicious nature of this kind of division in other religions or it is not so vicious is up to speculations and personal experience)

If in the past these madhabs did not cause so much of the problem then it is fine.

These days this kind of division does make in to many people’s lives including marriages, friendship and other day to day relations. Admittedly it is not so prevailing among the educated and sensible people but still many illeterate people do get sucked in to these ideas.

Regardless it has any negative attributes in term of lack of respect for each other my question will still remain.

Where does in islam it says you follow a particular madhab?

Did Quran or the Prophet SAW say you must be a hanafi, maliki or a shia only?

Where did people go wrong?

They got strayed when they forgot the real islam and started to follow one man or a group of people or a religious school verdicts blindly like sheep.

Yes many muslims are sheep no doubt about it. They follow a particular kind of thinking without using their own brain and senses.

And then this utter nonsense of doing ‘bait’ on someone is not so uncommon.

Husbad asks wife to do bait on an Imam. Both ask questions of their lives to this imam sahab. Whatever he says, they follow like sheep. And at times a whole family or neighborhood follows this imam…:frowning:

Reason:

1- Laziness.

2- Strong belief ingrained in to their minds that you are dumb. and..Islam needs to be understood by a shiekh, wali, majaddid or imam first and then you need to learn islam from that person!

There is a common misconception that after the prophet SAW you still need someone else to interpret Islam for you and ONLY one madhab needs to be followed.

What is wrong with this picture? Everything is wrong with this picture.

No matter how much we say, Oh ‘some people’ are wrong and hence they should not have animosity and no madhab says it. But is saying that enough?

Don’t we see sunni 'Aalims" aggravating the trivial issues and Shia ‘Aalim’ doing the same?

It is about time we stop follwing these so called madhabs, sects and learn Islam the way it was meant to be. (Just my personal opinion)

Yes, the way it was meant to be to learn religion from available information.

Make a pure, honest and safe decision to follow whatever comes along as long as the basics are preserved.

If people love prophet SAW so much then why not follow him directly and all by himself?

All those aalims were great at the time and ARE respectful. They brought their interpretations and understanding to what Islam was about. Fine.

Then why not look at each aalim and take what you like in EVERYONE and live life without following a particular person.

**I am sunni, I am Shia, He is hari pagri wala, They are deobandi. We are brelvi, athari or whatever. Does this make sense? **

How many names we will continue to create???

Amagingly, this has become its own science!

People now go in to detail of actions and philosophy to describe themsleves or others what ‘madhab’ they might be ‘close to’ …:smack:

In essence, if all are good overall then adopt what good you find in all.

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Re: Why do we need a madhab?

Bro Diwana,

you've mixed up the shia into the 4 schools of thought of Islam and you've mixed up Deobandi/Barelvi (both follow Hanafi in fiqh), then you've mixed up Athari aqeeda into a madhab when it's an aqeedah.

It's another matter if the laymen are ignorant and follow like sheep and start fighting on little differences. The true scholars do not fight.

Islam is easy but learning the Quran and Sunnah in our own lives is not easy. First let's try memorizing the Quran then memorizing the hadith books. Then learn the science of interpreting the Quran and Sunnah. Keeping all history in mind. When was this surah revealed? What did the Prophet(saw) in this case, in that case..etc? What did the sahaba do to act upon a certain ayat? Which sahaba did this? Which sahaba said this? What's chain of narration for this hadith? Which hadith is weak? What to do in case of divorce? What are procedures in distributing wealth?

Are you capable of doing all that? Even the big name scholars are scared in deriving their own rulings like the 4 great Imams did, because they say they don't have enough knowledge. SubhanAllah. These are the same scholars we look up to, imagine the 4 Imams. The Imams were closer to the sunnah than the scholars who came after them and so on..

Another question, do you seriously think Muslims of today have that knowledge and understanding to derive their own rulings? We clearly see it today, these modernists out of the blue come up with their rulings based on a verse or hadith without properly understanding the context. You know what these people are doing? They are following their desires! That's all. Once you start picking and choosing, you'll do so without any discipline, ending up following your nafs. Which most of the time is from shaytaan!

Allah (SWT) says:
[16:43] We did not send (messengers) before you other than men whom We inspired with revelation. So, ask the people (having the knowledge) of the Reminder, if you do not know.

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Isn't this what i said earlier?

A science of its own.

I have not mixed it, I only mentioned different 'names' of different madhabs sects or whatever.

Why should anyone care to learn the differences between aqeedah or madhab or sect?

Is this really necessary?

Did prophet SAW ask people to make these divisions or differences or we just love to make them up to create the differences among us?

Fine. They themselves may not fight but do make others fight. Right?

One aalim says something negative for other, other returns and says something to refute first one.

How many aalims we know who say I am deobandi but barelvi aalim are also great and you can follow them if you like to?

People are told not to learn themsleves by these aalims, just believe one aalim, or school of thought. People then argue and fight.

Let people decide who to follow and how many to follow.

Have you not read hadith that so many 'aalims' will not be entered in to jannah?

What was the reason of that hadith?

Anyhow, there are and might as well be great aalim. No argument there. Just not get sucked in to one madhab philosophy.

Why not follow good from each aalim? That is the real question!

One can search questions as the question arise or when time is available.

Read ALL different thoughts and make a good judgement on your own.

What's wrong with that?

If you pray and be sincere and search/read all sources of info., it will not be hard to make a good decision.

I do not think Allah will ask if you were a deobandi and why were you not barelvi, and how come you did not do 'bait' on a peer sahab when they were available for you?

I did not say drive the ruling on their own. I said drive the ruling from reading quran and hadith and available rulings. These rulings by the way can be very specific and trivial.

If major issues of relgion are same in each madhab or sect then why bother 'fixating' on trivial matters?

Bhai sahab the problem is who are 'the people of reminder'?

Barelvi, deobandi or other sect aalim such as shia?

Do you see my point?

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Re: Why do we need a madhab?

diwana

You didn't answer my question. You said follow Quran and Sunnah only, how do you learn the Sunnah of Prophet(SAW)?

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So when these imams pray with each other only few like you know about it, but when mullas on the street accuse each other and label each other as KAFIR then whole nation hears it... at that time no such IMAM ever step up to refute his own mulla.... so praying together of these Aalims thousand miles away from their homeland doesn't do any good...

it you draw two parallel lines and if one of them bend away from other even if the bending in half cm, both end up miles away in the long run, that exactly has happened in this case...

Earlier it was just opinions based on certain realities, i really respect all the four Imams as a matter of fact i like their wisdom, but that was wisdom of a particular man under particular circumstances, it does not stand for ever but Quran and Sunnah is to be there to stat till the Hour is established, again these school of thought ( i am purposely not talking about Shias or other as that is more violent story) what is there use? isn't Quran and Sunnah enough????

Isn't every man is gifted with intelligence and brain to access wrong and right on the fundamentals mentioned in Quran... these school of thoughts have even superseded few direct qurani orders... e.g. procedure of Talaq... ( don't want to go in detail of this example, anyone wondering why i gave this example just google about the Talaq-e-Muhammadi and talaq in Sunnah and see what procedure is mentioned in Quran)

There are islamic traditions where the leaders of these four school of thoughts have abused each other ( now these traditions can be false but they do exist in their respective books)

As far as my tolerance is concerned, then yes, i do not like people following anyone else then Quran & Sunnah and there is reason for that and i am sure you are not interested in that one..

Anyway, you can follow all the religions you want and let me follow Quran and Sunnah only as for me, Quran is not a book for reading and making 30 good-deeds for single word only...

last but not least, i appreciate the fact you never called me anything but u did called me intolerant after all you couldn't control it didn't you????

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Can you name a single school of thought based on the difference of opinion Sahaba (RZA) had?