Re: Why do some women in Pakistan...
Wow, how come this old old thread got revived
Correction. No one said inappropriately touched. Please show me where have I used this word. Let me re-phrase your line to make it clear.
We are comparing "Not wanting to be touched by a stranger at any other occasion" (of course because of belief) with "Not minding to be touched by a stranger while they help you in wearing bangles and shoes"
The problem is with being touched, whether it was appropriate or inappropriate that you can only know, after you have invented the sensors that can detect what was going through the shopkeeper's mind, and how did he FEEL after the touch.
Inappropriately being touched means being touched when not wanting to be touched.
If you still don't understand after reading all the replies, then I understand that you might have come up with a perspective that others have failed to consider.
Women in Pakistan and other Muslim countries are often touched, brushed up against, and grabbed by stranger men when they don't want to be, which to some extent could be considered molestation. Your opening posts asks why do women complain about being touched by strangers. Well I don't see women complaining about being touched by strangers other than when touched inappropriately. I did skim through the other posts but the topic discussion is the first post.
Re: Why do some women in Pakistan...
while gettin your jollies from a hand touch is kinda weird, there shouldn't be a comparison.
This boils down to the same old argument, that if a woman is inappropriately touched, well she deserves it then b/c she also willingly lets shopkeepers touch her hands, doesnt it?
This boils down to the same old argument, that if a woman is inappropriately touched, well she deserves it then b/c she also willingly lets shopkeepers touch her hands, doesnt it?
But then women who are covered from head to toe are also molested. There should be no justification for perverts.
Re: Why do some women in Pakistan…
well how dare htey step out of the house w/o a dude.
dont u know women are so soft and so dumb that they will be eaten alive b/c they unknowingly display their charms?
Why do some women in Pakistan...who don't want to be touched by a stranger male, easily let them help them in wearing bangles and shoes in the shops ?
While most people have understood this statement correctly (as evident from the initial posts), few did misunderstood this. InshaAllah, by the grace of Allah (swt), I would try to elaborate my point of view (which can be totally illogical and senseless. In that case please correct me).
The key word in the first statement is easily let. This only indicates the circumstances, in which avoiding 'being touched' is in their control, i.e. if they are a bit careful, they can easily avoid being touched by a stranger, yet somehow they unintentionally don't consider the perspective their own belief demands, the same perspective which they usually do consider on other occasion. For example, in class rooms (co-education), in Hotel, buses,...etc.
I hope it is clear now (InshaAllah). As I said, this is just my point of view, which can be totally wrong. Allah knows best!
Re: Why do some women in Pakistan...
I have never worn bangles or shoes by any male. I think that is extremely cheap.
mostly men who touch women, touch the private parts, so theyre okay with them making them wear shoes and bangles..
who don't want to be touched by a stranger male, easily let them help them in wearing bangles and shoes in the shops ?
May be they want to be touched by strangers where the environment allows them.
Re: Why do some women in Pakistan...
^ I don't think that some women in Pakistan have become so desperate, that they would go to shopkeepers only for wanting to be touched. shocked I can't believe it even if a top newspaper in Pakistan mentions it a 100 times. Because in my views, generally speaking, Pakistani women are mashaAllah among the most religious and practising Muslims in the world. It is just that at times they are too innocent to know what their unintentional mistakes are.
Any ways, it is not about the environment but about the unintentional contradiction in one's belief system on different occasions, as mentioned in post # 87
I've never gone for the 'personal' services such as letting someone (a male) touch my hands and feet (doesn't seem normal-it's not like it's a medical treatment and I'm erm ill/dying).
I purchase choorian by the box as I get carried away, and ask bhai to pack them up for me. I try on shoes myself, and let the sales assistant know that's what I wish to do. It may seem weird for my MIL etc but for me I don't do it near in the UK so why do it in Pakistan?
As for tailoring, I provide the darzi with a kameez/shalwar that fits perfectly and they are happy to take the measurements off there. I couldn't imagine letting a man take measurements by touching me...maybe I'm a prune?!
Don't get me wrong, these bhai folk maybe lovely guys, I just don't feel comfortable with men touching me. Actually, I'm not sure if I'd let a sister touch my feet...it's like my personal space.
^ I don't think that some women in Pakistan have become so desperate, that they would go to shopkeepers only for wanting to be touched. shocked I can't believe it even if a top newspaper in Pakistan mentions it a 100 times. Because in my views, generally speaking, Pakistani women are mashaAllah among the most religious and practising Muslims in the world. It is just that at times they are too innocent to know what their unintentional mistakes are.
Any ways, it is not about the environment but about the unintentional contradiction in one's belief system on different occasions, as mentioned in post # 87
Your observation may be true but I don't believe so. Even apparently unintentional mistakes at times are driven by deep rooted natural instincts. In these stalls there is crowd usually where the service provider is the most handsome.
who don't want to be touched by a stranger male, easily let them help them in wearing bangles and shoes in the shops ?
hypocrisy - i have special label for all these ladesi and that is : ninja !
I have never worn bangles or shoes by any male. I think that is extremely cheap.** mostly men who touch women, touch the private parts**, so theyre okay with them making them wear shoes and bangles..
What?
Re: Why do some women in Pakistan...
^ I hope he meant that every part of a woman is her private part, when it comes to dealing with strangers.