Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

so north west india and pakistan do share the same indoaryan languages (no dravidian language is spoken withn the hindi belt)…and they both have a majority of caucasoid people…so as i said pakistan and north india are similar in linguistics and race, except for one thing: due to the british colonial dividing power…india has opted for devanagari script, while pakistan has opted for arabic script…:smiley:
i’m sorry, but all you say just proves one thing : pakistan and NORTH WEST india share a similar identity, BUT CHOSE under the dividing pressure of their ancient rulers who encouraged the divisions btw muslims and hindu (divinding to rule;) english intelligence:wink: ) to increase BY FORCE the division btw pak and india and at the cost of history accuracy and by propaganda in schools (some people here certainly went to pak schools…or their parents did:halo:)

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

Hardly. Even in the marginal areas where the two countries share some linguistic similarities, the prespecitves are completely different. India is moving into modernity and Pakistan is moving back into theocracy and tribalism. The two countries, for the most part, are completely different. Most Indians in the North would much rather be associated with their Southern countrymen than with Pakistan.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

Why do you say that? India is moving into modernity? LOL.. yeah as far as the movies are concerned maybe. Pakistan has far more developed infrastruture, roads, and technology.. who say adopting theocracy is moving backwards? Iran is more developed now than it was during shah's regime. I dont think south Indians like north indians much.. south indians dont allow north indians to buy land

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

And you know that from personal or anecdotal experience?

South Indians definately do not like Hindi imposed on them but they have no other cause for real animosity. Anyone can go and buy land in pretty much any state... except.... surprise, surprise... Kashmir.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

Interesting that you say that. If you remember all the articles written by Indian journalists in Pakistan during India’s cricket tour here, they all said that they held a similar view to the one that you just expressed before they entered Pakistan.

Once in, they all said that India and Pakistan felt almost indistinguishable and that the fears they had of a country slipping into theocracy and tribalism were shown to be unfounded.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

I'm not sure which journalists you are talking about. True, the hospitality may have been good, but a visit to large cities under police protection is hardly a clear picture. Regardless of what our heritage was, our futures are completely different.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

completely agreee…:k:

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

Anarkali, who can forget Verappan, the landlord from Tamil Nadu who was against the north indian central government and north indian settling in south india. Ultimately, he lost his life fighting and uniting south indians. Kashmiris dont have their own land in their hands, forget bout Indians.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

This “Northwest” India is probably around 20% of India! Any way, this small portion of India still has a lot of differences with Pakistan:

  1. Pakistanis speak Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Pashto… these languages are not spoken in Northwest India! Yes Punjabi is spoken in East Punjab (with a different dialect and written script).. but East Punjab is a state with Sikh majority who consider themselves distinct from the rest of Indians and had been waging a war for independence! Urdu is only the mother-tongue of 7% Pakistanis (Muhajirs- Muslim migrants and their descendents from north India). So your logic is against your own argument!

  2. Northwest Indians might be linguistically Indo-Iranian and racially mostly Caucasoid just like Pakistanis. But then Northwest Indians are a minority of Indians. Besides belonging to the same racial or linguistic group does not make different peoples as one people. For example, Guatemalans and Italians are linguistically Latin but that does not mean that they are the same people! Or Albanians and Russians are racially Caucasoid but that does not mean that they are the same people! Same thing applies to Pakistanis and northwest Indians!

  3. Northwest Indians have a distinct history from Pakistanis. For example, Greek, Persian, Bactrian, Arab, and many other historical periods only occured in the region of Pakistan and not northwest India. Out of 5000 years of its known history, Pakistan region was a part of northwest India only under 525 years under the Turko-Afghan Muslim rule, and 100 years each under the Mauryan and British rule.

  4. A significant minority of Pakistanis are partially descended from Turkic, Afghan, Arab, and Iranian Muslim migrants which is not the case with Northwest Indians.

  5. Northwest Indians are mostly Hindus and a minority Sikhs whereas Pakistanis are Muslims. This causes major differences in values, customs, manners, beliefs, and other cultural aspects between Pakistanis and Northwest Indians.

  6. The ethnic groups of Pakistan such as Pashtuns, Sindhis, Baluchis, and Punjabis have their own identity, culture, music, cuisine, traditions, dances, crafts, folklore, etc. distinct from Northwest Indians.

More later…

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

:omg: …a few years before he died, he asked for forgiveness from president of india…he was not against any government. But ofcourse he held tamil language close to his heart.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

Hi I’m new here,

In reply to mulz’s post

Since when did Verappan become a landlord???:confused: How does a sandalwood smuggler become who kidnapped, killed and smuggled for a living die fighting uniting south indians?? Do you truly know who Verappan was or are you just using his name and thinking up a fancy story to go with it?? An Indian has the right to live anywhere in India and buy property anywhere in India.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

What is meant by Indian heritage?

I never see punjabis denying their punjabi heritage or sindhis denying their sindhi heritage. Why label it as indian when India herself is made up of so many ethnicities that can sometimes be very different from each other.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

And this guy i know from Delhi, India was insisting that all Pakistani women wear burkas and if they don’t they get fined/arrested/killed and then he went on to say that India has oceans/mountains/deserts while Pakistan is all desert. When i disagreed he said 'why would i believe you?":halo:
16 years of schooling in Delhi did him a lot of good.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

[quote=Pakistan4ever]
This "Northwest" India is probably around 20% of India! Any way, this small portion of India still has a lot of differences with Pakistan:

*Punjab, Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh, Rajasthan make up 10.5% of India. *

  1. Pakistanis speak Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Pashto... these languages are not spoken in Northwest India! Yes Punjabi is spoken in East Punjab (with a different dialect and written script).. but East Punjab is a state with Sikh majority who consider themselves distinct from the rest of Indians and had been waging a war for independence! Urdu is only the mother-tongue of 7% Pakistanis (Muhajirs- Muslim migrants and their descendents from north India). So your logic is against your own argument!

*Punjabi is speaken in Northwest India and dialects are formed by region not religion afaik. It's speaken not only by the sikhs but different dialects of punjabi are spoken by hindus and the minority muslims in Haryana/Himachal Pradesh and Punjab. Urdu isn't really an indian language as it is a blend of Hindi, persian and other languages. *

  1. Northwest Indians might be linguistically Indo-Iranian and racially mostly Caucasoid just like Pakistanis. But then Northwest Indians are a minority of Indians. Besides belonging to the same racial or linguistic group does not make different peoples as one people. For example, Guatemalans and Italians are linguistically Latin but that does not mean that they are the same people! Or Albanians and Russians are racially Caucasoid but that does not mean that they are the same people! Same thing applies to Pakistanis and northwest Indians!

That's makes sense but a jatt punjabi in Pakistan is very close racially to a jatt sikh from India. To summarize Indian jatts are similar to Pakistani jatts and indian rajputs are similar to pakistani rajputs. However most indian punjabis are jatts while the 750,000 sindhis in India are similar to the 5 million sindhis in Pakistan. The rest of India isn't racially or culturally similar to Pakistan.

  1. Northwest Indians have a distinct history from Pakistanis. For example, Greek, Persian, Bactrian, Arab, and many other historical periods only occured in the region of Pakistan and not northwest India. Out of 5000 years of its known history, Pakistan region was a part of northwest India only under 525 years under the Turko-Afghan Muslim rule, and 100 years each under the Mauryan and British rule.

*Again, whether or not Pakistan and Northwest India have similar history, the rajputs and jatts from both sides of the border have similar ancestry. Same with the Sindhis. *

  1. A significant minority of Pakistanis are partially descended from Turkic, Afghan, Arab, and Iranian Muslim migrants which is not the case with Northwest Indians.

*hmm. I don't know what to make of this since i've heard from a lot of people that the invaders/migrants that were muslim married into muslim families only and not into sikh and hindu ones so you might be right. But if you think about it jatts and rajputs have scythian-kushan-hun origins which is shared by jatts/rajputs across the border and also by people in Iran and Afghanistan. *

  1. Northwest Indians are mostly Hindus and a minority Sikhs whereas Pakistanis are Muslims. This causes major differences in values, customs, manners, beliefs, and other cultural aspects between Pakistanis and Northwest Indians.

*I agree religion plays a big role in culture. *

  1. The ethnic groups of Pakistan such as Pashtuns, Sindhis, Baluchis, and Punjabis have their own identity, culture, music, cuisine, traditions, dances, crafts, folklore, etc. distinct from Northwest Indians.

*Punjabi cuisine, music, culture and traditions are the same in both Pakistan and India. I'm pretty sure the tiny Sindhi community in India(750,000) share a culture with pakistani sindhis. Aside from those two i agree. *

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

why did you forget MP,UP, Bihar, Haryana, Delhi and Maharasthra???
they are also part of the northwest india: hindi belt:halo:

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

cultures different regions are different and that’s independant from english drawn borders:D!
but the history of different subcontienetal regions share a lot in common…as many old empires did overlap many different regions…
it would be more appropriate to talk about the common suncontienetal history…with some regional variations…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Punjab

History of the Indian Subcontinent (India, of_Pakistan.,Bangladesh.Sri_LankaNepal.Bhutan._Maldives)

Stone Age 70,000–7000 BCE
Mehrgarh Culture 7000–3300 BCE
Indus Valley Civilization 3300–1700 BCE
Late Harappan Culture 1700–1300 BCE
Vedic Civilization 1500–500 BCE
Kuru Dynasty 1200–316 BCE
Maha Janapadas 700–321 BCE
Magadha Empire 684–321 BCE
Middle Kingdoms 600 BCE–1279 CE
Maurya Empire 321–184 BCE
Gupta Empire 240–550 CE
Chola Empire 848–1279 CE
Islamic Sultanates 979–1596
Hoysala Empire 1040–1346
Delhi Sultanate 1210–1526
Vijayanagara Empire 1336–1565
Mughal Era 1526–1707
Maratha Empire 1674–1761
Colonial Era 1757–1947
Republic of India 1947 onwards

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

Thanks for the clarification! However, let’s not include Kashmir because of its disputed status.

Punjabi is mostly spoken in East Punjab of India (different dialect/script from Pakistan’s Punjabi), and Sikhs are a majority in East Punjab. Hindus of Haryana and Himachal Pradesh voted Hindi as their mother-tongue in the 1951 census. Details: http://www.sikhspectrum.com/052004/ahluwalia_ms_3.htm

These Jatts/Rajputs are a small minority in India whereas they are a majority in Pakistan. The differences between Pakistani Jatts/Rajputs and Indian Jatts/Rajputs are what I stated in my previous post. Btw, there are more than 21 million Sindhis in Pakistan.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

He didnt know anything about Pakistan- he was just blabbering. Most of the people who have been to both countries for extended period of time believe either that -1) NW India and Pakistan are same, racially and culturally OR, entirely different theory- 2) Pakistanis are mostly aryan(whites)- meaning most of Pakistanis are descendants of germans and other europeans mixed with a small percentage of Dravidians while India is mostly black/brown people with shorter height.

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

depends where they go in india and pak:D

if they go to lahore and karachi and then dehli and mumbai, they may think 1
if they go to quetta and peshawar and then bangalore and chennai, they may think 2

:halo:

Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?

Present-day India was created one day after Pakistan’s creation! Pakistan was created by the Pakistanis themselves. On the other hand, the British colonialists conquered the various countries/peoples/kingdoms of South Asia and for the ease of administration consolidated them into a single unit called “India”. No country with such name or/and size existed prior to its British creation. With the departure of British, their colonies were divided with present day India being a direct descendent of that British creation.

In the words of Winston Churchill, “India is no more a country than the Equator”. It is no wonder there are many separatist movements in India, having many distinct nations, races, languages, cultures, religions, histories,etc. A Tamil is racially as different from a Kashmiri as is an Ethiopian from an Italian. A Naga is culturally as different from an Bihari as is a Chinese from a Argentinian. A Gujarati is linguistically as different from an Andhra (Telugu) as is a German from an Arab. Such extreme differences are common place among the so called Indians with barely any unifying factors. On the other hand, Pakistanis have all the commonality being linguistically Indo-Iranian, racially mostly Caucasoid, geographically based around Indus Valley, sharing a common history/culture, and adhering to the faith of Islam.

Pakistan from 3000 BC to the present:

  1. Indus Valley Civilization: 3000-1500 B.C. i.e. about 1500 yrs. Independent, separate from India.

  2. Aryan period: 1500-522 B.C. i.e. about 978 yrs. Independent, separate from India.

  3. Small semi-independent states: 522-326 B.C. i.e. about 196 yrs. Under the suzerainty of Iran’s Kayani (Achaemenian) Empire.

  4. Conquered by Alexander and remained under his successor: 326-300 B.C. i.e. about 26 yrs. Under Greek rulers, not part of India.

  5. Province of Mauryan Empire which included Afghanistan: 300-200 B.C. i.e. about 100 yrs. Part of India, mostly Buddhist rule.

  6. Graeco-Bactrian period: 200-100 B.C. i.e. about 100 yrs. Independent, not part of India.

  7. Saka-Parthian period: 100 B.C.- 70 A.D. i.e. about 170 yrs. Independent, separate from India.

  8. Kushan rule (1st phase): 70-250 A.D. i.e. about 180 yrs. Pakistan-based kingdom ruled over major portion of north India.

  9. Kushan rule (2nd phase): 250-450 A.D. i.e. about 200 yrs. Independent, separate from India.

  10. White Huns and allied tribes (1st phase): 450-650 A.D. i.e. about 200 yrs. Pakistan-based kingdoms ruled over parts of north India.

  11. White Huns (2nd phase— mixed with other races): 650-1010 A.D. i.e. about 360 yrs. Independent Rajput-Brahmin Kingdoms, not part of India.

  12. Ghaznavids: 1010-1187 A.D. i.e. 177 yrs. Part of Ghaznavid empire, separate from India.

  13. Ghorid and Qubacha periods: 1187-1227 A.D. i.e. about 40 yrs. Independent, not part of India.

  14. Muslim period (Slave dynasty, Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Syeds, Lodhis, Suris and Mughals): 1227-1739 A.D. i.e. about 512 yrs. Under north India based MUSLIM govts.

  15. Nadir Shah and Abdali periods: 1739-1800 A.D. i.e. about 61 yrs. Iranian and Afghan suzerainty, not part of India.

  16. Sikh rule (in Punjab, NWFP and Kashmir), Talpur rule in Sind, Khanate of Kalat in Baluchistan: 1800-1848 A.D. i.e. about 48 yrs. Independent states, not part of India.

  17. British rule: 1848-1947 A.D. i.e. about 99 yrs (1843-1947 in Sind). Part of India under FOREIGN rule.

  18. Muslim rule under the nomenclature of Pakistan: 1947-present. Independent, not part of India.

The above table reveals that during the 5000 years of Pakistan’s known history, this country was part of India for a total period of 711 yrs of which 512 yrs were covered by the MUSLIM period and about 100 years each by the Mauryan (mostly BUDDHIST) and British (CHRISTIAN) periods. Can anybody agree with the Indian ‘claim’ that Pakistan was part of India and that partition was unnatural? It hardly needs much intelligence to understand that Pakistan always had her back towards India and face towards the countries on her west. This is true both commercially and culturally.