Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Well? No other nation questions its existence as much as Pakistanis do. Why is it?

Is it because the ones who question it lack any strong linkages with the country itself? Or that we take for granted what others can only dream of?

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

^its the new breed of pseudo-intellectuals who think by acting like this...they become 'cool'.....
obviously there are many overseas pakistanis (if you could call them that :hehe)......who would like...match with what you said about lack of strong linkages...

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

At the time of independence or just before it, a political ideology by the name of two-nation theory existed. It was very obvious that not 100% of muslims would support that ideology just like any other political ideology gets its supporters and critics. Just like there are people in Balochistan who support independence from Pakistan and those who oppose it. Many more examples can be quoted here. In my opinion it was totally normal at that time to have difference of opinion on the partition of the Sub-continent. That was that!

The problem is those who supported the partition of Sub-continent now like to call those who didn't, traitors. This I think is totally uncalled for. As Pakistan is a reality now and we all accept it. In response to them being labelled traitors, they start justifying their opposition to the division of the then India. This justification is then taken in the current context and those justifying their point of view are again labelled as traitors.

This debate should be over now. Yes, people can differ on the idea of the partition of India or any other territory but once a matter has been settled, its over. People who supported the creation of Pakistan should not taunt those who opposed it at that time and vice versa.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

may be they're only interested in knowing the historical facts and it might seem like "questioning their existence" to some nationalists.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

questioning your past and calling for separation are two different things...please don't mix them up.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

Separation was an important event in the PAST (history) of Pakistan. So I thought the thread was about why people question the existence of Pakistan (separation of it from India). They seem very related to me.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

I think it's in our own head, we think someone is talking about the partition and the blunders by our great leaders just because he wants the country to divide further and we start coming with slogans like, "ban them, "expe,l them", "you're not Pakistani" etc.

I hope the Pakistani nation becomes a mature one like other nations....I highly disagree that most Pakistanis like doing that because I think most Pakistanis are not even allowed to question anything regarding politics and religion. I'm glad most nations are not like us in this regard, for example, if Americans were like Pakistanis they could've killed Noam Chomsky by now.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

Yes and Yes to both questions.Just really upset to find some folks here trying to question the very valid reasons for the existence of this country.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

I think they're (very incorrectly) calling it "liberalism" in Pakistan these days. And this is my chief gripe with them -- that you can be secular, you can ask for equal rights of minorities, you can bash the religious zealots all you want, but to question a country, your very own country's existence is not factored into the definition of a liberal anywhere else in the world.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

It have become fashion the more you criticize Pakistan and try to prove how stupid its founding leaders were, the more you would be considered liberal, cool and realistic.

The interesting character of these kind of people is that they consider it some kind of honor for not being able to read or write the nation-wide spoken language and on the same note they tried to show/prove that they have no cultural link to the country whatsoever.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

Look at it this way, doesn't questioning the creation of Pakistan also mean questioning the creation of India and Bangladesh?

My personal views are that talking about the past and learning from our mistakes shouldn't be an issue in order to keep Pakistan safe from division and destabilization.

The recent talks over "questioning" the partition might be a result or reaction to the recent events took place all over the country especially Baluchistan.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

Questioning the Pakistani textbook version of what happened 64 years ago is no sin. Neither is talking about whether we would have been better off with India. Although the discussion is pointless to be honest.

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Same here.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

The lost purpose

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

Few countries are founded as ideologically as Pakistan is. So its natural for intellectuals, pseudo or otherwise, who's business or interest it is to critique ideology to question Pakistan. But lets not make this into an ivory tower intellectual issue, or one of people without ties to where they live. Bangladesh isnt that far away. Balochistan is simmering. Pakhtoonkhwa movement also flirted with independence. Thinking about who you are and who you should be is okay. It can serve to enrich your national identity, instead of insisting on half a century old ideas.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

When doubts creep in and people start questioning anything that belongs to them or start having second thoughts about them...it's a danger sign IMO.

And yes, within the last two or three months the verbal debate on our country's existence and our political leaders' cynical comments about ithe whole thing being called a mistake has picked up pace. It's not 'learning from mistakes' in history but rather 'critically looking at something to pick out mistakes and then writing a whole book of them'

The latter can be very damaging IMO.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

Its interesting to note that questioning the creation of Pakistan seems to be taken in the national interest when it does more to divide the communities than to unify them. Case in point the cause of Baloch Liberation is based on the notion that Pakistan should not have existed and that the three main principalities did not accede by choice. Revisionist history sure, but that is the essence of the point.

However you do not see any other nation or community question the foundation it is created upon. Be it Israel who we share a similar history of creation or nation states that never existed in history tiill their creation by colonialists, like Kuwait and Tanzania. Tanzania is a perfect example of a nation that was created artificially and built upon a common ideology and never questioned its existence.

I have yet to find any community that actually questions the need for its existence. Pakistanis do. Even though they have a passport. Ask a Kosovar, Bosnian, South Sudanese what it means to have a passport that you can call your own. Or have a state that is actually recognized by the world.

And ravage just because its founded ideologically does not mean its natural to question it. I fail to see the correlation. As it has not occurred in the case of Tanzania or Israel. No Israeli will ever question the need for Israel to exist as a state or why it does so. Pakistanis do and do so actively. A good portion of the member base on Gupshup has advocated returning and joining India as one state again.

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Re: Why do Pakistani’s question their own existence?

Both should be applicable depending on one to the other I believe. Came across a board the other day, over 4 million members (mostly Americans) were asked to vote if they believed 9/11 was a hoax or not. Lo and behold 78% said it was not a terrorist attack and was faked. Questioning the government doesn’t come close to questioning your country of origins, but you should be able to relate to what i’m trying to say. Questioning Pakistan should also eventually lead me to question my own existence, and indirectly the one who chose it for me.

A friend who was in Pakistan used to complain about the system for one. Now that he’s in Canada, he hasn’t changed, $6500 worth of tickets within a few months, and eventually got his car impounded. He’s still what he used to be, just the circumstances that are different.

Ultimately it all comes down to human nature, and ungratefulness is expected to be a part of it. I’m green for life though, and nobody can ever change that.

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Re: Why do Pakistani's question their own existence?

[EMAIL="^@CM"]@CM Exactly. It's just like crushing one's own self esteem.

This debate is leading to questions that are just going to spread more discord amongst an already troubled nation.
It's just like this: If as a teacher you read a passably good essay of an average grade 6 kid which has its minor errors and mistakes but overall it shows that it's a sincerely worked upon effort by him/her. What you start doing is to critically analyse it to the level where you start discussing it with other kids and questioning the slightest grammatical mistake and spelling error..and eventually coming to the conclusion by telling that kid : you shouldn't even have written it.

Would that be justified?

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Re: Why do Pakistani’s question their own existence?

i wish more Israelies did question the need for their state to exist. I know there are people raised in Israel or living there who question the need for a separate Jewish state. I think the Israeli right calls them self hating jews. *(http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-30.htm)

Im not sure why you fail to see the link between ideological nationhood and a vocation built around analyzing ideology. Just because it arguably hasnt occurred in other instances doesnt negate it as a factor in this instance. So much for the intellectuals. As for the people on GS, I havent been following those threads and wont bother speaking wrt them.

The point of bringing up Baloch liberation or Bangladesh is not to validate those particular struggles, but to demonstrate that this is not a preoccupation of elitists or intellectuals as posited by some on this thread. You mention Bosnians, Kosovars, South Sudanese as wishing they had passports. Another view would be think they’re Yugoslavs and Sudanese who question their identity.*