Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
I can dig up many quotes from him to show that no matter how he was during his early life, when he got us indepoendence he was quite an Islamic man.
Brother, I totally agree with you. I can support this point of yours easily. Jinnah wanted an Islamic State. No doubt about it.......
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Musli
[QUOTE]
because he was a tolerant ruler who was liked by his subjects and presided over the most successful period in mughal history....the pinnacle of muslim rule in india.
[/QUOTE]
tolerant towards hindus...........he tried to destroy islam
Akbar wanted to establish an Indian empire by giving greater participation to hindus that ultimately led the downfallof the muslims .
[QUOTE]
your national hero Aurangzeb presided over the downfall of muslim rule and unleashed revolt throughout the nation....he was a failure.
[/QUOTE]
anyone who tries to enforce the sharia to the best of his ability is successful in the eyes of God, regardless of his success in this world
[QUOTE]
DEFENDERS? do you know what "defense" means?
[/QUOTE]
Defense of the faith and to maintain its purity against corrupting influences
.
[QUOTE]
if Muhammad murdered a hundred hindu babies, would you view him in the same light?
[/QUOTE]
Prophet(pbuh) would never order the killing of non-combantents as
it was against the rules of warfare which he strictly abided by
However God at times punishes entire communites somtimes with fire,wind and earthquakes and sometimes by sending armies
Hypothetically speaking IF the Prophet(pbuh) did order such an act then God be praised we will consider it an honor to carry out such a thing.Whatever the Prophet(pbuh) says is it is the duty of a true believer to carry it out
[QUOTE]
The only reason why they are heroes in pakistan is because of antagonism towards Hindus, nothing more, nothing less. that's a pretty pathetic quality of a hero.
[/QUOTE]
not really considering the hostility you have shown to muslims for 1000yrs
[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
Shivaji is widely-known to have had an excellent human rights record. to anybody in the world,.
[/QUOTE]
any sources for this?
[QUOTE]
the problem in your thinking is that you assume the righteousness of a person is only a matter of which side you are on
[/QUOTE]
Not true I have openly admitted that these rulers were not flawless
But that dosent mean that everything they did was wrong or evil
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Musli
muslims were not displeased with akbar, only modern-day religious muslims retroactively disrespect him. during his rule, the only muslims that disliked him were the muslim “nobles” who lost income when akbar banned the jizya. the progress made by india, as a whole, during his rule was the most by any muslim ruler in indian history. this is why he is a legend. his personal religious beliefs or deviations are a separate issue entirely.
to force it on a non-muslim population against their will in subjugation? this is success? this is admirable?
offensive invasions into foreign lands is not “defending” the faith. there was nobody attacking it for it to be defended..
sigh i should have expected this kind of answer.
lol, pray tell what might have inspired this hostility. maybe the single-day 100,000 civilian slaughters, destruction of the holiest of hindu temples like somnath, rape and enslavement of innumerable innocent women, impoverishing taxation, etc. Come on bro, use common sense.
why might the citizens of baghdad be hostile to hulagu khan? would anybody blame them for being hostile?
if we stick to non-hindu sources, this quote from the Mutakhab-ul-Lubab by Mughal historian Khafi Khan focused more on religious tolerance, but it is obvious the generally chivalrous attitude he maintained:
"Shivaji took quite a tolerant view of religious differences. As the Moghul historian Khafi Khan, no admirer of Shivaji in other respects, reports: “[Shivaji] made it a rule that wherever his followers were plundering, they should do no harm to the mosques, the book of God, or the women of anyone. Whenever a copy of the sacred Quran came into his hands, he treated it with respect, and gave it to some of his Mussulman followers.”
true, not everything that every muslim invader or occupier did was evil, but nobody apart from some RSS types is claiming that.
but at some point, we have to be honest with ourselves…the denials and justifications made by desi muslims (specifically pakistanis like Lajwab) is quite simply laughable and destroys intellectual credibility, from any objective point of view.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Musli
There is no doubt that QA wanted a state based on Islamic principles, and since Islam is the Natural Religion, so he considered the logic to be the basis of Islamic laws.
QA did not want to impose a shariah developed by one school-of-thought. He did not want a theocracy. Most maulanas were opposed to the creation of Pakistan, because its movement was being led by QA, who did not support maulanas’ idea of a Talibanic state.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
However, I fail to understand why Pakistanis are so proud of these conquerors and mass murderers. Pakistan had even named its missiles after Ghazni and Ghauri.
nicols_john
I want to ask you why our historians so much glorify Shivaji who had a track record of frequently invading and looting Surat. This is mentioned even in the historical masterpiece "Discovery Of India" written by Nehru. When a looter can be glorified by our historians and a fundamentalist party is formed in his name which has repeatedly and openly defied the laws of the land then what's wrong if Pakistanis too behave in the same way in glorifying Gauri, Ghazani and Aurangjeb. Are we not a semi civilized people to tolerate Shiv Sainiks? (In an uncivilized society, MIGHT IS ALWAYS RIGHT. In a civilized society, law of the land always holds good). In a civilized soiciety such elements cannot survive.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Musli
^sal,
compare Aurangazeb and Shivaji and put it up here.
Please.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Musli
Okay, I can do it for you bud :)
Here is shivaji in front of an eight armed woman
And below is Aurangzeb Alamagir sitting on a prayer rug and reading Quran
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Musli
^haram.. u depicted painting of Aurangazeb.. thats blasphemous.. u should be lynched.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
Oh yaar why do you guys even waste your time replying to these braindead hypocrite Hindus?
Pot calling kettle black. 
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
^ Yaar janey do na. Naraaz ho jaeen gey yeh sab
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
I just want to say that not all Muslims agree that these people were "great Muslims". Unfortunately, in the past, some Muslim rulers had a very war-like attitude. It's time to come to grips with that past and to not celebrate it, but do everything that can be done to become the exact opposite of that image, through the Islamic ideals that the Prophet (pbuh) taught us.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
^
Every nation (whether based on religion or ethnicity) has had its "war-like" rulers, I don't know everyone singles out Islam and the Muslim Nation for pointing fingers at.
War is neccesary for nations to survive.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
I wouldn't club aurangazeb with gazni. A was a fundamentalist loony whereas gazni was simply a looter. If what either of them practiced is Islam that will only be reinforcing the viloelnt and intolerant view of Islam. Muslims need to decide
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Musli
I agree that Aurangzeb was unfair to non-muslims. He imposed additional taxes on them. But that's all and nothing beyond that. But painting a very grim picture of him by our historians is also equally unfair.
Shivaji happened to be the first Hindu king who challenged the already established muslim suprimacy in the Indian subcontinent but he has been unfairly glorified. Our historians should be unbiased and shouldn't mix religion with history.
I admire Ashoka, Chandragupta Vikramaditya and Akbar equally well. But admiring Shivaji is a pure religious extrimism. In my view, those who admire Shivaji, are undoubtedly religious fundamentalist and the same is true for those who admire Aurangjeb as well. If Hindus think of Shivaji as a hero then how you can prevent muslims calling Aurangjeb as their hero.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
You smell like a Hindu from these words. No other can say such things except a terrorist Hindu.....
I can refute your claims here but just wanna see how far you go. BTW Gaznawi was the one who attacked "Somnaath" the BROTHEL of that time......
The reasons for his attack were distinct and unique.
And about Aurangzeb, his is another promonent figure in our History. And those who worship the creator of Dean-i-Ilahi can say nothing more than what you said......
Vomit what you have to BUT do give reference. Then I'll make you swallow that back.........
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
^ lahore, a sage will see God even in the gutter whereas a pimp will see a brothel even in a temple. I can therefore understand your view of Somnath.
ofcourse aurangazeb was prominent - what brought him prominence is what we are talking about. osama bin laden, milisevich, saddam hussein hitler were all prominent.
As to your vomit handling capabilities, kudos
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
Thats why Indians always keep slandering about Pakistan, Aurangzeb, Ghaznawi, right? You really smell write and think like a Hindu....
Bombay bhai, I'll show you my abilities.
But when you make such statement, provide a reference and support your answer.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Musli
Shivaji happened to be the first Hindu king who challenged the already established muslim suprimacy in the Indian subcontinent but he has been unfairly glorified. Our historians should be unbiased and shouldn't mix religion with history.
I admire Ashoka, Chandragupta Vikramaditya and Akbar equally well. But admiring Shivaji is a pure religious extrimism. In my view, those who admire Shivaji, are undoubtedly religious fundamentalist and the same is true for those who admire Aurangjeb as well. If Hindus think of Shivaji as a hero then how you can prevent muslims calling Aurangjeb as their hero.
There was no taxes in Shivajis time on the muslims.. there were large no. of muslims in shivajis army. He didnt acquire the kingdom from his father. He made it his own. he didnt kill his brothers. He didnt imprison his father. He fought against a bully, who presided over the decline of Mughal dynasty in india. He was the underdog. So people naturally respect him. Just compare the might of Mughal empire and the marthas. So he was there because of his fighting abilities and shrewdness which our poor aurangazeb lacked. He levied taxes on the poor Hindus living as his subjects. Converted lots of Hindus forcefully. Did Shivaji did that.
Ur problem is I think is with the Shiv Sena using his name. But I think generally marathas are proud of Shivajia and the maratha kings. So the Shiv sena used the name to just get a bit more publicity.
Historians.. i dont think the historians who glorified shivaji are from the marathwade region.
I think even in Discovery of India by Nehru, he had only good things to say about Shivaji.
If that is the case then I have a case with Tipu Sulatan... the same historians also praise him for fighting the Britishers, while are mum on his atrocities against the hindus in the malabar regions of north kerala.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Muslims?
The jazya allowed hindus and any others to live in the country w/o ever having to fight for the army.
Don't tell me that indian muslims from punjab and elsewhere just called abdali to save them for no reason.
Re: Why do Pakistanis consider Mahmud Ghazni, Mohammad Ghauri & Aurangzeb Great Musli
Can you describe the social, welfare and economic system in the life time of your Shivaji? Be specifec in your answer.
How large? Lets critically analyze the situation.
Muslims have always been less than the Hindus in the subcontinent. and this fact is proven from any reading of the history in the Subcontinent. Muslims had their own armies too. Where would the Muslims serve in this situation, under Hindus or Under Muslims? Keeping that in mind, it is totally wrong to say there were large number of Muslims in Hindu army.
There have been numerous incidences in the History of Muslims in Indian subcontinent where this fact became evident........
I can give specific examples too.
Aurangzeb did not lack anything. Rather he tried to complete the lacking.
What you are using here against Aurangzeb compared to Shiva is for a completey different situation......
Again, an ambiguous statememnt. Would you mind elaborating on that?
Khuda ki panah. These people mutilate facts so much..... :(