:rotato:
Why is it so…why not some other country…or was Islam desperately needed for Saudi Arabia first…or what?
Was just wondering…what do you guys think?
Because ppl living at tht area were v bad ie religiously and did bad pratices and that Hazrats Ibrahim s family ws i n Arabia and holy Prophet ws supposed to b born i his family beccause it ws his wish and Allah Almigghty acccepted this wish of his
BTW Islam didnt start with holy Prophet PBUH it started will Adam AS and eneded on Holy Prophet PBUH
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*Originally posted by ahmadarsalan: *
....beccause it ws his wish and Allah Almigghty acccepted this wish of his
...
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Mind sharing info on "his wish" ?
Some researchers doubt it started in present day Saudi Arabia.. the origin of the religion lies somewhere further west..
But there were more advanced societies at the time. Monotheistic people, or at mimimum less violent and more educated. If the word were delivered to a different people, there would not have to been so many references and solutions to the violent and carnal culture of Arabia at that time. It's like it took the more ethereal and peaceful message of Jesus and threw it away to address the same types of concerns the Old Testament did. It addresses a certain type of desert people which is hard to translate to other peoples of the world. Not to mention the problems of making 'the word' in Arabic.
^
and what exactly do u find difficult to translate to other people of the world????
muslims r found in all places in the world....
and they dont find Islam difficult to practice....
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
But there were more advanced societies at the time. Monotheistic people, or at mimimum less violent and more educated. If the word were delivered to a different people, there would not have to been so many references and solutions to the violent and carnal culture of Arabia at that time. It's like it took the more ethereal and peaceful message of Jesus and threw it away to address the same types of concerns the Old Testament did. It addresses a certain type of desert people which is hard to translate to other peoples of the world. Not to mention the problems of making 'the word' in Arabic.
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clearly there was a need for separate identity for arabs at that time
so you cant have your idenity without your own prohpet and own sacred land that may be the reason for another religen eventhough jewish
and christian relgens were already established.
I guess the Jews were given a last chance with Jesus.. and then God kinda gave up on them to start afresh with a different people.
Originally posted by Seminole: *
**But there were more advanced societies at the time. Monotheistic people, or at mimimum less violent and more educated. *
The exact same could be said about when Jesus came, there were more advanced civilizations around so why go to Bethlehem? (although there are accounts that he did spend time in india according to some people)
**If the word were delivered to a different people, there would not have to been so many references and solutions to the violent and carnal culture of Arabia at that time.
It's like it took the more ethereal and peaceful message of Jesus and threw it away to address the same types of concerns the Old Testament did.
But did any of Jesus' teachings have legal undertones to them? not really becase the Romans were doing a pretty good job of keeping law and order, but the old testament which came to someone who would govern and run teh affairs of a state or a people, had laws incorporated in it.
While the real reason is only known to God and His wishes, one reason could be that while some of them were good in poetry, the arab bedouins were probably one of the the least developed societies of that time (other than Saharan tribes perhaps). With lots of bad practices and illiteracy (jahalatt).
The other, more obvious reason, is that the Arabian peninsula was home to many messangers of the Almighty. Kaba'a was built and has been a holy place much before the time of Islam.
ps. There was no "Saudi Arabia" at that time, ofcourse.
It seems to me that mot of the prophets were sent in the same family especially after Abraham. So obviously God had favoured this family (bani - Israel). The significance of Islam in Arabia is that God picked the family from Abraham's other son, Ismail, this time. Obviously the Kaaba being in Mecca was also significant. I don't know the full details, but I read somewhere that Ismail is not regarded highly by the jews and was exiled (according to the old testament) to Arabia. So that's where the conflict between muslims and jews comes into play- part of some grand master plan by the Big Boss !!
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*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
The exact same could be said about when Jesus came, there were more advanced civilizations around so why go to Bethlehem? (although there are accounts that he did spend time in india according to some people)
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I suppose a Christian would argue because he was finishing up God's word. Delivering their final message to the same people as the initial message (Old Testament). Perhaps the Jews of the time were more advanced (closer to God) than anyone else. The same could not be said for inhabitants of 7th century Arabia.
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But did any of Jesus' teachings have legal undertones to them? not really becase the Romans were doing a pretty good job of keeping law and order, but the old testament which came to someone who would govern and run teh affairs of a state or a people, had laws incorporated in it.
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Jesus was completing God's word with His more benevolent and advanced message. The laws were already laid out in the Old Testament, there was no reason to rehash what is allowed to eat to enter heaven, etc. Surely God's message to Jesus wasn't toned down just because Romans were in charge of the Holy Land at the time.
seminole
who knows what god's intentions were. I mean one can argue why not just tel people directly and not go through any messiahas, prophets or long drawn out processes etc.
the point however is that as peaceful as jesus' teachings are, they do not negate the laws in the old testament thus someone saying that jesus did not teach such and such is fine, he talked about what was not in the old testament, and focused on other aspects of it. since he did not negate the laws and punishments of the old testament, that is part of his message too.
so you may feel that jesus was completing god's work, something our jewish freinds may disagree with, just like I may say Muhammad was completing god's message which some of my christian friends will not agree with, just like someone can say baha ullah (baha'i faith) was completing god's word, which the muslims will not agree with.
so since we cant agree, why is it so hard for everyone involved to learn to disagree and move on :)
I know this is a topic where agreement isn't possible. Not to question or belittle your beliefs, but for me to gain Muslim insight on this subject (Quran borrowing heavily from Christian scripture, but delivered in a whole different way to a whole different people) since this is probably the main obstacle I (personally) have in accepting Islam.
Just continuing on the same vein, I think there is a vast difference between Jesus (A.S) and the last Prophet (S.A.W.). While Jesus did not bring a new set of laws (shariat), he merely re-inforced the old testament. On the other hand, the last Prophet was given a new set of laws. While the message of monotheism remains the same, there are many laws which were provided to the jews (and by default christians) by the Almighty, which were cancelled when Quran was revealed. Ofcourse, this is what the muslims believe in.
So, just as jews consider Jesus as a heretic (Naoz billah) and both jews and christians don't believe Muhammad (SAW) was a prophet at all (Naoz billah), muslims believe that both Moses and Jesus were prophets of God and were given guidance, and we respect them alongwith all the other 124,000 prophets (about 30 of whom are named in the Quran) however, the shariat (set of laws) revealed on Muhammad cancels out all previous shariats, and therefore muslims only follow the shariat of the last Prophet.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
(Quran borrowing heavily from Christian scripture, but delivered in a whole different way to a whole different people)
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It is our belief that the author of both The Bible and the Quran is the same Almighty, so you will see the same message of monotheism, day of judgement and the afterlife, believe in messangers, good deeds etc in both books. However, Islam is the most refined form of Almighty's message. The rules of life revealed on humankind since the first man and the woman were created, were perfected when Quran was revealed.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
(Quran borrowing heavily from Christian scripture, but delivered in a whole different way to a whole different people) since this is probably the main obstacle I (personally) have in accepting Islam.
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Your concern about Quran being a copy of Bible is a common one in addition to being an important and interesting one.
Muslims believe that Quran is the continuation of the same message that was sent to Moses in the Old Testament (Torah) and Jesus in the New Testament (Gospel). So thats why there are many overlappings.
Maurice Bucaille, the author of a famous book named Quran, Bible, and Science has dealt with this issue very effectively. Especially in the last section of the book.
Because Hazrat Ibrahim :asalam: left Hazrat Ismail :asalam: there…If Hazrat Ibrahim :as: had left him in China or even Pakistan for that matter, propbably that’s where Islam would have come from…And it wouldn’t have mattered…
But there is another story to that as far as I can see…
Every Prophet has had one Dua of them accepted by Allah :swt:…Hazrat Ibrahim’s :asalam: Dua was that any Prophet that comes after him be from his progeny. (Our Holy Prophet :sawasallam: was also allowed to make this Dua, but he saved it and he shall present it before Allah :swt: in Aakhira:))
The Jews were the beloved of Allah :swt:…He made them the most literate, the most blessed and the most pampered race of people the world had ever seen…Metaphorically speaking, they were the apple of Allah :swt:'s eyes…
They were sent the most Prophets too…Hundreds of them…Some they tried to destroy, like Ibrahim :asalam:, some they ran off, some they disbelieved in and some they rebelled against…Still, Allah :swt: kept sending them Prophets, however, the treachery against our Prophet Hazrat Eesa :as: was the last straw…No more favoritism…Now you shall survive on your own…
By the time of Hazrat Eesa :as:'s attempted murder, the progeny of Hazrat Ismail :as: were growing and 400 years later had become the thriving Arabs. A race of people wholly entrenched in vice and debauchery. They were ignorants in the true sense of the word, and the term used to describe pre-prophetic Arabia is ‘jahiliyah’. The period of ignorance. By this time the language of Hazrat Ibrahim :as: Aramaic, had broken into two. The Jews developing the Hebrew and the Arabs developing the Arabic.
After having washed His hands of the Jews after their last deceit, Allah :swt: decided to send this race of illiterates His Best and Final Message. To me at least it was like Allah :swt: sent one sheep, among so many wolves…A time where death walked behind you every moment, our Holy Prophet :sawasallam: brought the message for the first time…
Compared to the Jews, the Arabs were no better than primates in learning…They were arrogant and proud and cared little except to fulfill their lusts…It was in this darkness where that our Holy Prophet :saw: was light the light of knowledge, all alone.
I believe the message is clear…The Jews were clever and intelligent and were the ones to who all the Prophets came with guidance to perfect them while the Arabs had none at all…For centuries they had no one to guide them…Yet, when the time came to have the faith tested, these same people mired in ignorance stood up to the challenge and man, how they triumphed…SubhanAllah…Creating an ideology that 1400 years later, still remains true in its essence…
In conclusion, Islam coming to Arabia, to these, was the show of victory for faith and perseverance over cleverness and shiftiness…
Its triumphs have been evident through history, and its triumph is evident today in the hearts of 1.6 billion humans around the globe…
Lajawab, while the rest of your post is fine, this part is curious.
Which prophet Ibrahim are you talking about? Because Prophet Ibrahim (AS), the husband of Sarah and Hajirah came way before the time of Prophet Moses and jews. So there is no way, jews could have tried to destroy Ibrahim.
You are right, but technically, the people of Hazrat Ibrahim :as: were Hebrews, not Jews…True, they became Hebrews after Hazrat Ibrahim :as: received Prophethood, however, they were one people when he brought the message. Then they tried to burn him…