Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

[roadrunner]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

@SJToronto

roadrunner: I recently watched a BBC documentry on muslims in Europe. They had a segment on rising tensions between Pakistanis and the Brits. They showed a Community outside of Bradford where Pakistanis where not welcomed. They interviewed several locals aswell as a local MP. The locals openly sated that they did not like "Pakis" and that "Pakis" were not welcome in their neighbourhoods. The local MP was a memeber of the BNP and his statements were similar to those of the locals. By the way, the BNP is a rightest political party that openly propogates hatred againts ethnic minorities in the UK. They also do not allow non-caucasions to join their party.

When they say "Pakis" they mean Indians. I take that as personally offensive, since by definition it makes me Indian..

But on a more seious note, every country has these racist illiterates. BNP is the English one, Canada has one. It used to be the Dotbusters..What happened to them - are they still functional?

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

@SJToronto

I think when people grow up in multi-ethnic societies there is bound to be prejudices, stereotypes and racism. We all stereotype and I know for a fact that most people at some point in there life have been prejudice. There is a big difference between openly expressing these thoughts and keeping them to oneself. Racism is Racism and it will never stop, however, it can be socially unexcepted.

yeah but in the end the net results could be the same. The reason behind idiotic emplyment screening and preferences in canada are basically prejudice nothing else. so whe it is hidden as such you can not fight it challenge it or do anything.

[Boogie_Nites]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

@Miss_Mohabbat

I havn't read any replies and don't care if I am off topic, however, unless you yourself are a Pakistani/Bengali, Indian living in the UK or have lived in the UK for a substantial amount of time, I think your opinion to be invalid. Or to put it nicely, you don't know what your chatting about luv, so give a rest.

There is nowt wrong with Pakistani's, Bengali's or Indian's living in the U.K. We are perfectly fine.

Have you spoke to any taxi drivers lately Miss? Or waiters, corner shop wallahs, chip shop owners and so on? These are people on the street, not the likes of yourself in your protected cocoon (i.e. pc in the bedroom).

[Miss_Mohabbat]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

@Boogie Nites

Have you spoke to any taxi drivers lately Miss? Or waiters, corner shop wallahs, chip shop owners and so on? These are people on the street, not the likes of yourself in your protected cocoon (i.e. pc in the bedroom).

I have a corner shop wallah in my family, the chippie we sold years ago and I dont have enough fingers to count how many taxi drivers I have in the family... I think you understand. FYI, my laptop is wireless, so I could be sitting in the bathroom for all you care.

[ravage]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

well, i dont know if my opinion counts because I've only lived in London 40 days but Im actually quite impressed by the very significantly better circumstances the Pakistani/Muslim community has in UK compared to what I've experienced in America.

Muslims in America are perpetually in "we're good people too" mode. They have not found a way to be integrated into society nor do they have the means to effectively argue the perpetual hammering they get from virtually everybody. Consider the visa regulations for visting Pakistanies/Muslims. You have a special Muslim security clearance, you have a special Muslim immigration area, you fill in special Muslim moving forms when you move. Programmes on TV on Islam are so childishly amateur of such introductory nature (ref 30 days).

Over here, Pakistanies/Muslims seem much better integrated. The govt clearly does its bit to pander to the Muslims, from showing smiling Muslims and hijabies amongst the bunch of gleeful people in the Tube ad to not doing any of the silly (not to mention pointless) overtly discriminatory security processes employed in america, and I've seen extremely balanced and well developed views on TV. Also this was the first research group I joined where I wasnt the first Muslim in the team, I was only the fourth Muslim out of 15 for my group. In my experience the notion of Muslims being confined to taxi driving is wrong therefore.

There is a sense of ordinariness about being openly Muslim that is very refreshing about this place in contrast to the very palpable sense of alienation and defensiveness I used to feel amongst Muslims and my family members in LA.

Perhaps its different where Muslims are in higher concentration though, this does not negate the US govts discriminatory treatment.

[Miss_Mohabbat]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

Wait till you get to Bradford Ravage, you'l think you were actually in Pakistan. Not the mention the friendlyness of Northerners.

Truth be told, I used to dislike the mini Pakistan that Bradford had become, but spending time in America has really made me appreciate the U.K and Bradistan! I really should visit it more oftern, not just for shopping and lussi from Mumtaz's.

[Sortazik]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

@roadrunner

When they say "Pakis" they mean Indians. I take that as personally offensive, since by definition it makes me Indian..

But on a more seious note, every country has these racist illiterates. BNP is the English one, Canada has one. It used to be the Dotbusters..What happened to them - are they still functional?

The Dotbusters were a gang in Jersey City (US) that attacked South Asians in the late 1980s. They specifically targeted Hindus since their women wore Bindis, hence the name Dotbusters.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

@ravage

well, i dont know if my opinion counts because I’ve only lived in London 40 days but Im actually quite impressed by the very significantly better circumstances the Pakistani/Muslim community has in UK compared to what I’ve experienced in America.

Muslims in America are perpetually in “we’re good people too” mode. They have not found a way to be integrated into society nor do they have the means to effectively argue the perpetual hammering they get from virtually everybody. Consider the visa regulations for visting Pakistanies/Muslims. You have a special Muslim security clearance, you have a special Muslim immigration area, you fill in special Muslim moving forms when you move. Programmes on TV on Islam are so childishly amateur of such introductory nature (ref 30 days).

Over here, Pakistanies/Muslims seem much better integrated. The govt clearly does its bit to pander to the Muslims, from showing smiling Muslims and hijabies amongst the bunch of gleeful people in the Tube ad to not doing any of the silly (not to mention pointless) overtly discriminatory security processes employed in america, and I’ve seen extremely balanced and well developed views on TV. Also this was the first research group I joined where I wasnt the first Muslim in the team, I was only the fourth Muslim out of 15 for my group. In my experience the notion of Muslims being confined to taxi driving is wrong therefore.

There is a sense of ordinariness about being openly Muslim that is very refreshing about this place in contrast to the very palpable sense of alienation and defensiveness I used to feel amongst Muslims and my family members in LA.

Perhaps its different where Muslims are in higher concentration though, this does not negate the US govts discriminatory treatment.

1. ravage you reall think that muslims dont get extra scrutiny of Uk visas and all now?

2. Muslims in america have not assimilated, but are on path to integration. as far as ‘we are good people too’ message, the muslim associations and groups say that same in UK, look up their websites and press releases.

3. while muslims in america have not assimilated .. or not integrated well as a whole in US, they also have not done stupid things a la mohajiroun or HT or such joker organizations.

4. UK ‘panders’ to muslims because they ahve been a visible minority for quite some time.

5. the sense of alien-ness that you sensed in your famil members does not mean that is the case with all muslims in US. Yes the history here is limited compared to UK

6. as far as US govts discriminatory treatment, wasn’t it UK where cops shot down some bloke in error (the gun went off..yeah right) and no one is held accountable.

the topic was more about Pakistanis the muslims, and coming back to it, the big difference is in sheer numbers, type of crowd, and amount of history that has both good and bad results in US ad UK respectively.

[ravage]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

@Fraudz

1. ravage you reall think that muslims dont get extra scrutiny of Uk visas and all now?

I was careful to say “overt” extra security. Muslims do not have extra long wait times either before the issuance of a visa or at the airports or anywhere else. The fact that UK govt manages to carry out whatever security checks they need to do without causing significant delays and a feeling of discrimination is very laudable.

To give you an idea of scale, the British Embassy gave me a fixed deadline by which point they would tell you whats your status (in the order of a couple of weeks). The American embassy has twice processed my application stating a “minimum” of two months, and the usual time is about six months, although I’ve seen it go into years for other people.

To be honest, most people cant put their lives on hold for that long, which is why increasingly graduates from good universities are going to UK and europe, something that didnt happen three/four years ago.

2. Muslims in america have not assimilated, but are on path to integration. as far as ‘we are good people too’ message, the muslim associations and groups say that same in UK, look up their websites and press releases.

Not in the same way. CAIR is as impotent as OIC when it comes to effective advocacy. Nor are there any elected representatives of Muslims of any significant influene. The “we’re good people too” is a matter of perception, I dont see Muslims here feeling compelled to say that to average Londoners, nor does hijaab turn as many heads over here (i say that with experience of having my mother over in LA).

3. while muslims in america have not assimilated .. or not integrated well as a whole in US, they also have not done stupid things a la mohajiroun or HT or such joker organizations.

Another example of how Muslims havent found themselves at home in america. Like it or not, HT or al muhajiroun represent the thoughts of a section of Muslim thought, Muslim thought everywhere, Pakistan, UK, or US. Dont imagine that there arent people who subscribe to the same thoughts as HT or al muhajiroun in Muslims in America. Evidence of that you can take the cyber jihadies on GS, there are more with an american background than a UK background (from the ones I know). The only difference between them is that that section of Muslims felt secure enough in UK to overtly start expressing those ideas publicly, whereas Muslims in US have never been confident enough to express such a radical viewpoint.

This is ofcourse not to say that HT type views are desirable in a Muslim community. I’ll leave that discussion for another thread.

4. UK ‘panders’ to muslims because they ahve been a visible minority for quite some time.

True. That probably is the reason why UK Muslims fare better. Im not saying americans are genetically predisposed to persecuting Muslims. It does seem like Brits are better experienced with Islam, and better equipped to have Muslims feel secure in these times.

5. the sense of alien-ness that you sensed in your famil members does not mean that is the case with all muslims in US. Yes the history here is limited compared to UK

True, american society is very different from city to city, and Im sure the case would be different in places like Michigan. Everything I’ve said only applies to what I’ve seen of America which is mostly California and a little NY.

6. as far as US govts discriminatory treatment, wasn’t it UK where cops shot down some bloke in error (the gun went off..yeah right) and no one is held accountable.

I was speaking with regards to policy. Perhaps the execution has gone wrong at times, but lets not forget that the head of the same police is also a Muslim who looks like hes of Pakistani origin.

[Sara516]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

Neither me or my mother [who wears abaya/burka] has ever been “targeted” or made to feel alienated or less human when we’re at the airport. The guards are never rude or mean, they’re either friendly or neutral (it doenst help that I start giggling when she pats me up n down..not my fault i tickle ). My father flew to Pakistan shortly after 9/11, at the time he had a beard, wore topee, kurta etc, and he did not have any problems whatsoever.

[Boogie_Nites]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

@Miss_Mohabbat

I have a corner shop wallah in my family, the chippie we sold years ago and I dont have enough fingers to count how many taxi drivers I have in the family... I think you understand. FYI, my laptop is wireless, so I could be sitting in the bathroom for all you care.

So you are cocooned in the bathroom rather than the bedroom, point taken. We need to hear from the less isolated members of your family, eg, chip shop owners, cabbies, doctors, fantastic cricketers/boxers, muslim soldiers who no one gave a shhit about until they were killed by the Taleban and so on.

[hitchki]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

@Boogie Nites

So you are cocooned in the bathroom rather than the bedroom, point taken. We need to hear from the less isolated members of your family, eg, chip shop owners, cabbies, doctors, fantastic cricketers/boxers, muslim soldiers who no one gave a shhit about until they were killed by the Taleban and so on.

This is ridiculous on a whole new scale. I am therefore documenting it.

[hitchki]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

O and Mehnaz, Eastenders is a pantomime. No one is really blowing up anyone else/killing them with ashtrays/ finding b'tard sons in the bin.

[Ma_Mooli]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

[Mehnaz]

Re: Why are Pakistanis and other desis in UK so screwed up?

@hitchki

O and Mehnaz, Eastenders is a pantomime. No one is really blowing up anyone else/killing them with ashtrays/ finding b'tard sons in the bin.

Oh my. Here I was thinking it was reality t.v.