Peace All
This is very frustrating for me to see.
I must add that the majority of Pakistanis in the UK are by background from villages and most of them are from affluent families who own businesses or drive taxis, may be even side-businesses.
However, most Indians are from towns …
Does that make a difference?
This image comes from the paper version.
Here is the article online >> Latest news & breaking headlines | The Times and The Sunday Times
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
Maybe because the British Pakistani community has a lot of mirpuris who came for villages.
It would be interesting to see the what the Indian population consisted off. I am sure that the indian punjabi scores were lower than the other indian communities.
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
You have to understand what the influence of education of parents has on the child...uneducated parents may want and push and encourage their child to study and do well HOWEVER- when english isn't the primary language at home and the english that is spoken is not proper grammar, limited vocabulary, children start out on a limited footing...
After that you have after school homework help, assitance on maths etc...the littlest thing makes it easier for the "educated" family child to do well...they have the subtle advantages that money doesn't bring.
Finally i think there are cultural limits on allowing these kids to go to FAR b/c when they do they become to british, lose touch with their culture, stop speaking their langauge etc and there is subtle pressure to stay true. Which means they don't join various groups in school, get involved in clubs, sports, arts, music etc that all would support greater academic success.
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
You have to understand what the influence of education of parents has on the child...uneducated parents may want and push and encourage their child to study and do well HOWEVER- when english isn't the primary language at home and the english that is spoken is not proper grammar, limited vocabulary, children start out on a limited footing...
After that you have after school homework help, assitance on maths etc...the littlest thing makes it easier for the "educated" family child to do well...they have the subtle advantages that money doesn't bring.
Finally i think there are cultural limits on allowing these kids to go to FAR b/c when they do they become to british, lose touch with their culture, stop speaking their langauge etc and there is subtle pressure to stay true. Which means they don't join various groups in school, get involved in clubs, sports, arts, music etc that all would support greater academic success.
Most of the indians in UK are Gujjus and then Punjabis, and recently from south, and hindu tamils from srilanka
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
It has many reasons as elaborated by the posters.
Unfortunately the biggest reason is “following bad religious leaders like Mullah Bukri”.
Once you fill too much religion or racial injuries in young minds, they can’t concentrate on their studies.
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
It has many reasons as elaborated by the posters.
Unfortunately the biggest reason is "following bad religious leaders like Mullah Bukri".
Once you fill too much religion or racial injuries in young minds, they can't concentrate on their studies.
Peace burqaposhx
I think the followers of splinter groups are but few. The major reason seems to be parental involvement or lack of it in their childs education because they don't know otherwise. The problem is how to get out of this rut quickly.
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
It has many reasons as elaborated by the posters.
Unfortunately the biggest reason is "following bad religious leaders like Mullah Bukri".
Once you fill too much religion or racial injuries in young minds, they can't concentrate on their studies.
Exactly my sentiments. Perhaps they need a crash course on buddhism
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
Exactly my sentiments. Perhaps they need a crash course on buddhism
Peace ssingh
They'll probably flunk that too!
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
^^
But that would take their mind away from bombing trains and the imagined injuries to their brethern throughout the world
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
^^
But that would take their mind away from bombing trains and the imagined injuries to their brethern throughout the world
Peace simplyme
I think that response is off topic!
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
psyah
its mostly the familiy background, if they did not appreciate education, and also wanted to shelter their kids from the society and thus never let them really be part of the school, then u will see this trend.
Its not genetic, after all pakistanis in US are doing well?
a different phenomenon was noticed i middle east in the late 70's and 80's as the crimes committed by pakistani youth increased quite significantly in proportion to the pakistani population, and it was because of the type of people coming in.
Many UK Pakistanis came to UK without much education and did not vlaue it, did not make it a priority in their kids lives, the desi gangsta culture that emerged did not help matters either.
so you are where u are.
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
I am shocked and dismayed that only 75% of Indians in UK achieve 5 good GCSES. This is certainly under par for Indian immigrants. It might be that the number of 2nd and 3rd generation Indians have increased which may be a factor. But I am glad it is atleast going up, not down, though not rapidly enough.
Just look at the amazing rate that the Caribbeans have made in the same period?! Good job!
As to someone saying religion is the reason for Pakistani origin in UK being so low in education - well it may be so but don't you think Indians are religious? I think it simply means Pakistani youth are not being taught and brought up on the right values. I mean this is a qualitative difference, not circumstantial.
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
.......As to someone saying religion is the reason for Pakistani origin in UK being so low in education - well it may be so but don't you think Indians are religious? I think it simply means Pakistani youth are not being taught and brought up on the right values. I mean this is a qualitative difference, not circumstantial.
Right values that lead to success in education are many. But the most important one is "hope".
Hope for the future as a value plays a tremendous role in the uplift of downtrodden. Unfortunately UK Muslims go to mosque and the Mullah drains out all the hope from young people. Negative propaganda like "Muslims are being persecuted by Europeans" sucks the soul out of the Pakistani youth. These poor thangs fail to see that Europeans may be whooping people in the Arab land, but they are still "relatively" just within their own countries.
However the UK mosques mix the whole thing up, and confuse the youth so they fail to face the challenges of UK society.
Indians in the UK on the other hand do not have that feeling yet. So they keep on struggling along.
It does not mean that Indian Hindus are not prone to suicidal tendencies. Look at Tamil-nationalists in India and S Lanka. Many of their youth have lost hope due to the negative propaganda of their leadership. The result is that Tamil men and women have been on the forefront of suicidal acts in the region.
I suspect that Hindus too will go through similar challenges in about 200 years. By 2200 there will be enough Hindus living in UK and US. At that time if US or UK attack India for some reason, the same Hindus temples will be talking about Jihad.
p.s. My assumption is that UK and US still be leaders of the world in 2200. However this scenario is equally applicable to the future of Hindu immigrants to other parts of the world for example China.
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
^^ hindus never talked about jihad or dharm yudh when india itself was ruled for 5000 of centuries by external forces.wat make u think that they will do now.BTW if we take aryan invasion theory into account then hindus were not from the land of india.natives were different than those aryan hindus who were just hordes.and natives had flourishing civilization in mohanjodaro when aryans destroyed it.
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
^^ hindus never talked about jihad or dharm yudh when india itself was ruled for 5000 of centuries by external forces.wat make u think that they will do now.BTW if we take aryan invasion theory into account then hindus were not from the land of india.natives were different than those aryan hindus who were just hordes.and natives had flourishing civilization in mohanjodaro when aryans destroyed it.
Let's make your point valid:
[quote]
Nextdoor in India, Hindu militancy is doing much the same despite their very different religious tradition. They have cast Hinduism as a religion of violence, warfare and force. There are of course elements of violence in the Hindu tradition. Mahatma Gandhi was a reformer who recognized that violence had a part in India's religious and cultural tradition but also viewed ahimsa as the essence of Hinduism. In his study on Gandhi, Rajmohan Gandhi mentions that when his friend C.F. Andrews observed that "Indians had rejected 'bloodlust' in times past and non-violence had become an unconscious instinct with them, Gandhi reminded Andrews that 'incarnations' in Indian legends were 'bloodthirsty, revengeful and merciless to the enemy'." (The Good Boatman. P35)
[/quote]
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
^^ THX for validation and sorry for diversion.Now to the topic.Ithink religion has no impact for a child to do bad in his/her studies.Problem lies with motivation and parental care and involvement.Even if parents r illiterate,but with right motivation and care they can see that their child studies well.Parents involvement in child's upbringing makes a lot of impact.I ve seen students from uneducated family doing well in class then the ones whoes parents r educated and employed.The difference here is that how parents take care of their child.
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
It does not mean that Indian Hindus are not prone to suicidal tendencies. Look at Tamil-nationalists in India and S Lanka. Many of their youth have lost hope due to the negative propaganda of their leadership. The result is that Tamil men and women have been on the forefront of suicidal acts in the region.
This is factually wrong. You are mixing up Tamils of India and the Tamils suffering from Sri Lanka.
The Indian Tamils (which comprises of all major religions by the way - Hindu, Christian, Muslim) are doing very well wherever they migrate too. In fact Tamil Nadu is one of the top states in terms of economy, education, industry, research, moder medicine, infotech etc. TamBrahms (as they are fondly known as in many circles) are one of the most sought after scientists, engineers and doctors. If you take the top 10 achievers in the past 10 years of almost any good school in the US, even chances that there is one or more TamBrahm in that list! But that is not limited to only Brahmins, such success.
Sri Lankan Tamils (guess they migrated from India a few centuries ago) are the ones who are suffering for equality in Sri lanka and unfortunately politicians of Tamil Nadu take advantage of them by complicating their cause for votes. Some parts of the Tamil struggle in Sri Lanka has passed the line of terrorism and in equal measure, actions of Sri Lankan army have also crossed limits. It is a very sorry and avoidable situation in Sri Lanka.
Now, I can understand if you say the Sri lankan Tamils in UK or US do not have hope - but even that is somewhat invalid. I know a lot of them and they are every bit as smart as Indian Tamils and every bit as successful. But there are a few that have been so badly hurt back home in Sri Lanka that they suffer and try to help the LTTE etc.
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
education cannot be taken for granted anywhere and misplaced in the clutter of silly delays in preparing to do well in exams, be it in Pakistan or abroad.
some life situations also hamper youth from studying, like awful family conditions, pressures of things such as earning or getting married at the wrong time, too early on esp for girls.
boys, or girls may also be in wrong company.
they may have the potential to do well, but maybe, no one came to help support them in learning test taking strategies.
some youth may have real learning disabilities that need to be addressed in that context.
and sometimes, too much emphasis on something will lead students to be rebellious and not do well in school and in standardized tests, because they are attempting to get attention of their families, in the wrong way, because something wrong was expected of them or done with them.
also, students' may not have learnt well, to do we4ll on exams, because teachers were not nice and dedicated enough due to their own pre-conceived ideas of race, social and economic class or gender. and this is bad, because it leads to self helplessness and internalization.
these instance, in and of themselves, point to one thing - it is not only the students themselves, it is the whole educational system and the social establishment whose ideas drive that system from family to the host nation in which the immigrant children have to create their academic career and professional niche.
the best solution is that in all of these circumstances, the best interest of the academic success of the students is kept in mind and approached in ways that enable the students to begin to feel personal responsibility and pride to down ell on the exams, for their own sake, but after these situational constraints are
to some reasonable extent understood and effectively minimized.
true that there are somethings people learn, only after failing at them, initially.
but, where a child's future of her/his academic career is involved, no trial and errors ought to be deliberately tried and erred on.
best,
Dushwari
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
*No it doesn't make a difference, I just did my GCSE's last year and there were a couple of us Pakistani girls who achieved 11 GCSE's at A - A grades.....it was interesting to see that those of us whose parents are not in highly-trained positions did a lot better than our classmates whose parents are doctors, accountants etc. **
There were also two of us Pakistani girls whose GCSE English examination entries were amongst the top 10 in the whole of England. SO you shouldn't be frustrated; it's just that the achievements of some individuals aren't seen, and when you look at the Pakistani population as a whole, it may look a bit dismal!
Re: Why are Pakistani results in UK so low?
This is factually wrong. You are mixing up Tamils of India and the Tamils suffering from Sri Lanka.
////.
Look! Tamils are tamils. If they have hope in India they do well. If they have no hope in S Lanka, they commit suicide in the name of "Tamil nationalism" or "Tamil Hinduism". Why it is so with Tamil Hinduism? Because their big issues are with Buddhist S Lanka government.
If I remember correctly, it was a Tamil Hindu women suicider from India who killed Rajiv.
peace and love for all.