Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@kaka_in_usa

Peace brother Psyah,
Actually you got it all wrong again. I meant human evolution is too slow, not all types of evolution. like i said earlier that thre is video available that has proof of evolution.
And i dont know how you got an idea that if we cant see it then it is not scientific

Peace kaka_in_usa

It’s good that you clarified that for me. Human evolution is too slow. Not all types? Hmm, please show me what is evolving fast. When I said "can’t see it, I meant it how you meant it … we can’t measure the evolution of humans, it’s too slow, we can’t see it. If we can’t measure it then it aint scientific … go figure
… there was absolutely no need to give me “we can’t see atoms” … I already know that argument I use it to support my stance. Fact is we can measure the existence of atoms, not human evolution. The belief in this is that “it is too slow to measure” - if it is too slow to measure then it might as well be still and not moving. You can’t tell it’s too slow … you get what I’m saying? I hope you do.

@diwana

These points may have been discussed but at the risk of repeating and making it clear here are some thoughts.

1- If someone claims to be religious then the person believes on scripture.

2- Non-believer have free will. He/she is free not to belive on scripture.

3- Evolution if true has not been proven by the simple fact that a monkey has always brought monkey, amoeba can only and has only creaed amoeba and the evolutonists no matter how much they be adamant on believing evolution cannot prove one organism can evolve to another.
(Evolution: Evolution (also known as biological or organic evolution) is the change over time in one or more inherited traits found in populations of organisms.

Evolution - Wikipedia)

This is the challenge to any evolutionists.

Surely we would have at least seen other primates catching up to become higher species by now!

The point is: Each species has some similarities to previous one but none has been shown to evolve to higher species by any observation so far. None.

4- Admittedly, no follower of religion can prove Adam AS or Eve (Hawwa) AS were createdd directly by God/Allah except to cite scripture or refute the opposite view.

But they are humble. They never claim to prove it. They are happy to believe on scripture and life for them goes on without worrying on this matter.

5- But evolutionist despite they have not and can not prove even what they believe and deny God’s words, make it diffcult for them deliberately. :hehe:

6- A monkey could evolve to human as Darvin said. Fine. So far have we seen ANY monkey convertng to human or even human evolve (going forward) to become any other species?

If someone says it is slow process then how come not a single human has evolved to something** better** yet over the time human has existed on this world?

**There is no single species better than human over so long period of time. **

7- Has evolution stopped or evolution theory is actually garbage?

8- All species are separate entities. None evolved to other. Similarity is based on most likely genetic codes being partially similar and expression of genes along with adapations to environment which is seen as differences within same species categories.

9- Evoltionists can not even prove their position by doing something actively/deliberately and change one species to other. No they cannot.

They still have to rely on ‘someone’ ( religious people call God) to have evolution be proven even if true which it actually is not.

They say it is slow process since they cannot make it faster.

Peace bro

Nice post

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@sharaabee

It is SHOCKING to see so many people denying evolution!

WOW !

What a deluded life.

Peace sharaabee

Not really denying it. I just want to the see the proof. Do you have it? Don't ask me to prove the existence of God, I don't claim it can be proven scientifically, but evolutionists believe that this process is the answer to our existence without God and it is better than the belief in God because it is scientific. Then do me a favour I'm a scientist ... explain it to me, please.

Of course from a moral angle it can't beat the idea of God at all ... And seeing this is also a philosophy forum let's hear the moral angle in:

Survival of the fittest and why humans the most advanced choose to nurture our sick and elderly and weak children? Besides are mutations fitter than their previous forms? Charity - is that a good thing or bad thing in evolution?

My religion prevents the consumption of alcohol ... surely if the fittest are supposed to survive then the alcoholics should be killed off. That means we will have those people left on Earth who don't consume alcohol. Of course evolution would have us do this, but my religion only tells me not to drink it, not to kill off the drinkers.

You see why a person can deny evolution?

[kaka_in_usa]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@diwana

It is SHOCKING to see so many people denying religion.

WOW!

What a deluded life.

Diwana bro, science doesnt reject religion. i have been saying this since post 1 that religion is faith, and science is facts. there is difference

[kaka_in_usa]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@psyah

Peace kaka_in_usa

It's good that you clarified that for me. Human evolution is too slow. Not all types? Hmm, please show me what is evolving fast. When I said "can't see it, I meant it how you meant it ... we can't measure the evolution of humans, it's too slow, we can't see it. If we can't measure it then it aint scientific ... go figure ... there was absolutely no need to give me "we can't see atoms" ... I already know that argument I use it to support my stance. Fact is we can measure the existence of atoms, not human evolution. The belief in this is that "it is too slow to measure" - if it is too slow to measure then it might as well be still and not moving. You can't tell it's too slow ... you get what I'm saying? I hope you do.

Peace bro

Nice post

Peace brother pysah,
While a laymen like me has all the answers to the question you humbly raised, i think you will not accept them if they come from me.
I am sure god has blessed muslim brothers and sister with scientific knowledge with degrees such as bachlors, masters or phd in the field of bio science. it will be great if you ask them and also ask a general question that why no muslim scientist worth its salt never raised objection on evolution.
i hope that will remove your honerable doubts.

BTW brother pysah, i have been wondering since queer mentioned it, do you have any proof of baba adam and amma hawwa.
peace

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@kaka_in_usa

Peace brother pysah, While a laymen like me has all the answers to the question you humbly raised, i think you will not accept them if they come from me. I am sure god has blessed muslim brothers and sister with scientific knowledge with degrees such as bachlors, masters or phd in the field of bio science. it will be great if you ask them and also ask a general question that why no muslim scientist worth its salt never raised objection on evolution. i hope that will remove your honerable doubts.

BTW brother pysah, i have been wondering since queer mentioned it, do you have any proof of baba adam and amma hawwa. peace

Peace again kaka_in_usa

It seems that you have a poor opinion of me such that I will not accept your answers. Indeed I have been taught the science I know by no Muslim. All of the science I know has been taught to me by non-Muslims. I know for a fact (seeing you like to talk about facts) that the theory of evolution is but a theory and it will remain so until proven. You can't call evolution a fact because a fact implies that it has been proven.

And whether a Muslim has raised doubts about evolution or not ... it is not my concern. Please provide me your answers. It is you who is claiming the truth in evolution.

What test or experiment can scientists put in place in order to categorically prove evolution? Let's answer this question shall we?

As a scientist and mathematician I understand what proof is. Einstein came up with the idea that light is subject to gravitational force. Prior to his postulate it was understood that only matter containing entities are subject to gravity. It was seen when he proposed the experiment to test whether this was the case. All that had to be done was for us to look for a star that otherwise would have been behind the sun during a solar eclipse. If we see the star then it is true that light is being lensed around the gravitational force of the sun. If we didn't see the star then his theory would be wrong. This is called a falsification test.

So what falsification test can you present for evolution?

[diwana]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@kaka_in_usa

Diwana bro, science doesnt reject religion. i have been saying this since post 1 that religion is faith, and science is facts. there is difference

Kaka Bro! We can discuss later if science is facts or not.

But I never said science rejects religion.
People reject religion so my post was directed to people who deny religion. :)

Sceince cannot refute or prove religion. Nor it can be done vice versa. Meaning religions cannot refute or prove sceince. Nor it is the job of religions to do that.

I try not to mix science and religion as much as possible as my prior posts suggest. For fun discussion people try to mix these. So be it.

Coming to evolution. It is a theory as it is said above by Psyah bro. Not a fact, not even provable by those who ask religious ideas to be proven.

Again, for fun discussion all is kosher.

[kaka_in_usa]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Peace guys,
i guess you didnt read my long post so i will make it short. Evolution is not a theory, it is a fact. Darwin gave a theory to prove evolution and is called darwin's theory of evolution. just like gravity is a fact but newton gave a theory about it. newton's theory could be wrong but gravity is still a fact.

Again i have been answering simple questions which are proven facts, but still i havent received proof of my humble little question about adam and eve.
peace out.

[Med911]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@psyah

Evolution is baseless that is the reason for disregarding it. It is as much as a belief system as the belief in Deity is for us we choose to believe in Him (Allah), not in them (Atheistic Evolutionary Pseudo-Scientists).

Evolution is not a reality as you claim it be ... how could it be?

In order for me to accept evolution is for me to see it happen. I would like to see a human born to unhuman parents. If you cannot show me this then I cannot believe in evolution. If it is a matter of looking at fossil remains and piecing together a jigsaw puzzle, then that is already being done in my Islamic belief to provide me subjective proof that Allah (SWT) is the Creator and Maintainer of everything.

Evolution could not match my belief. For me each moment as it passes is the complete destruction of a previous state and a reconstruction of another. A sequence of events that we call time. Rather the same fossil evidence can demonstrate that whole species once existed were killed off and replaced with similar or other species without any connection other than they came from Allah (SWT).

Some people look to the Qur'an and see that it has a similar message to the Bible, they hence conclude that the Qur'an was prepared by copying a Bible manuscript. That is not the only conclusion one can draw for the similarity. One can also say that The One who sent the Bible is the Same as The One who sent Qur'an. Not copied from it, but from the same source. Hence when we see similar creatures we don't have to conclude that they came from one another, but that everything comes from Him (Allah).

The challenge for the evolutionist is to prove that two given species of similarity have not separately come into existence. If the evolutionist cannot prove this his claims of them coming from one another is just a belief.

Evolution, is seen throughout creation. Both in the short term and the long term. You can see it happening. Its not just a belief system, its based on real observable science.

And its also inevitable. Mutation in our genome occur at a relatively constant rate. The only thing separating us from other species, is the degree of differentiation in our genome. With enough mutations occurring over a prolonged period, our genome could accumulate so much differentiation, that we would effectively be a new species. So one species becoming a new and different species is not only likely, its inevitable.

[Med911]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@zobia

simple. we all know Adam was a first human. and there is no evidence there to prove that He AS was born through an unhuman.

How about fossil evidence predating human fossils by over a Million years and extensive DNA evidence?

[Med911]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@aaliyahkhan1

I feel it is either Evolution or Allah - and I choose Allah!

Why? Why cant Evolution be the mechanism Allah uses to create?

[Med911]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@Faris_Udeen

Islam is not the only faith that does not believe in Evolution

As for the evolutionary theory Darwin was not the first or the last but the idea that humans are from Monkeys just doesn’t make sense…

Heres something I cant understand… civilistation seems to have stemmed from the Middle Eastern deserts right? The Horse and the Dog as we know them appeared through Desert landscapes… as did the first human on earth… literally everything seems to have popped out of the desert at least if you follow the blood trail.

So in a place where there are hardly any trees where the hell did monkeys become humans…?

To me it makes hardly any sense… Sure if we all popped out of Africa after the last Ice Age how does anyone explain why the first humans appear not in forests as you would imagine but in wastelands much further North?

Thanks for that Farris.. I know Islam isnt the only religion that doesnt believe in Evolution… I have a Christian friend that reminds me of this fact on a regular basis.

My question, why are we content to be backwards like the other religions? I find it ridiculous that my faith should be in the same league as those others that reject science, and even believe the world is only 6000 years old.

We are not from Monkeys. All creatures including Monkeys, evolved from a common ancestor.

Humans evolved in Africa, not the Middle East.

Climate change explains why the trees disappeared. Its happened multiple times through out history.

But evolution is a very elegant and precise science. If you study it, you will be a amazed by how everything fits together in this beautiful mosaic.

[Med911]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@Faris_Udeen

We are obviously both deeply entrenched in seperate beliefs... It seems you and I both have strong arguments with evidence to support both. Just as a side note, Dogs exist in the wild both in India as Dholes, and the African wild dog as well as Australian Dingo. Anyway your right in some of what you say yes evidence seems to suggest that humanoids appeared across the world but the cradle of civilistaion was indeed the Middle East.

Long before Arab civilisation there were the Persians, the Babylonians, Hitites etc all passed long before.... :)

Cradle of civilization is indeed Middle East Faris saab, but what they mean is that the Middle East was the first place where humas settled down into city states, based around agriculture and live stock. Prior to that, we were hunter gathers who wandered along with our animals and our prey.

Humans as a speacies evolved in Africa however, and then we gradually left Africa and settled in different parts.

[Med911]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@kaka_in_usa

but Indian civilization predates any existing major civilization. there were many more civilizations but are dead now. i dont understand what do you mean by cradle of civilization and how it relates to middle east . middle east has infact gained from other civilizations due to its location. Plus its not about beliefs , its all facts and very well documented.

actually the matter of faith is "Creation" which is Abrahamic concept and all the abrahamic religions have it. not in every faith god is looked upon as a creator .

The first civilizations were developed in Middle East. Sumer, in modern day Iraq was the first known civilization that predated even the Indus valley civilization and Egypt.

[Med911]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@kaka_in_usa

I need no proof my friend, i will take your word for it. but the question is , can you convince brother pysah.

The theory that Animals are selected for their traits, in a grand natural competition was elucidated by a number of thinkers, even among the Greeks. I mean, its seems rather obvious doesnt it, the survival of the fittest and all.

But it wasnt never elaborated on to the extent that Darwin did.

[Faris_Udeen]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@Med911

Thanks for that Farris.. I know Islam isnt the only religion that doesnt believe in Evolution… I have a Christian friend that reminds me of this fact on a regular basis. My question, why are we content to be backwards like the other religions? I find it ridiculous that my faith should be in the same league as those others that reject science, and even believe the world is only 6000 years old. We are not from Monkeys. All creatures including Monkeys, evolved from a common ancestor. Humans evolved in Africa, not the Middle East. Climate change explains why the trees disappeared. Its happened multiple times through out history. But evolution is a very elegant and precise science. If you study it, you will be a amazed by how everything fits together in this beautiful mosaic.

No problem merey bhai… hear from you.

Please correct me if I am wrong but Islam unlike Christianity has no fixed date on the worlds existance… even early Christianity had no fixed date this somehow came to be agreed upon much later… at least from what I have gathered from first hand experience.

Islamic scientific thinking as you say clearly is very pro-evolution. In fact I will correct my stance right now and say that I am not entirely against the evolution theory as much of it makes sense and even is backed up by Koran which itself states clearly many scientific facts. However I dont agree with Darwinist theory either…like you said…

@Med911

We are not from Monkeys. All creatures including Monkeys, evolved from a common ancestor.

Now heres where it gets really technical becuase Islam states that Allah created the world out of Noor. Roughly translated that means light and if you split atoms that is what they tend to become… light…

In fact Rumi got it right a long time ago just read this…

I died as a mineral and became a plant, I died as plant and rose to animal, I died as animal and I was Man. Why should I fear? When was I less by dying? Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar With angels bless'd; but even from angelhood I must pass on: all except God doth perish. When I have sacrificed my angel-soul, I shall become what no mind e'er conceived. Oh, let me not exist! for Non-existence Proclaims in organ tones, To Him we shall return.

از جمادی مُردم و نامی شدم — وز نما مُردم بهحیوان سرزدم مُردم از حیوانی و آدم شدم — پس چه ترسم؟ کی ز مردن کم شدم؟ حمله دیگر بمیرم از بشر — تا برآرم از ملائک بال و پر وز ملک هم بایدم جستن ز جو — کل شیء هالک الا وجهه بار دیگر از ملک پران شوم — آنچه اندر وهم ناید آن شوم پس عدم گردم عدم چو ارغنون — گویدم کانا الیه راجعون

I will end by saying that I dont totally agree with Darwin however Islamic science has it’s own explanation and I am more inclined towards the belief that we all share the same ancestor rather than us having sprouted from monkeys.

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Evolution, is seen throughout creation. Both in the short term and the long term. You can see it happening. Its not just a belief system, its based on real observable science.

And its also inevitable. Mutation in our genome occur at a relatively constant rate. The only thing separating us from other species, is the degree of differentiation in our genome. With enough mutations occurring over a prolonged period, our genome could accumulate so much differentiation, that we would effectively be a new species. So one species becoming a new and different species is not only likely, its inevitable.

Peace Med911

With due respect all of these are red-herrings ... you just keep making claims you are not arguing scientifically. Please provide me with the falsification test for evolution that I have been asking kaka_in_usa for. What test do you propose that I can do that if it passes will prove evolution but if it fails will disprove it?

If you can provide this then I'll listen everything else is just a claim. Note: The falsification test must be agreed by all parties that is a criterion.

[KKF]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

as a science subject i'll study but i am NOT required to believe in it. the bottom line is...munkin nakeerain [the angels] will NOT ask me if i believed in "Darwin's Theory of Evolution" or not...i wud rather prepare myself for the beliefs i wud be questioned about as soon as my dead body will be placed in my grave and on the Day of Judgement. its only wise!

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@Med911

The theory that Animals are selected for their traits, in a grand natural competition was elucidated by a number of thinkers, even among the Greeks. I mean, its seems rather obvious doesnt it, the survival of the fittest and all.

But it wasnt never elaborated on to the extent that Darwin did.

Symbiosis

Food chain

The Food chain and Symbiosis are a reality for me. I can see them happening. A wolf may eat a sheep and sheep may eat grass. To me these are as fit as each other. Grass - there is a whole lot of it to account for the sheep and there are more than enough sheep to keep the wolves happy and allow themselves to prosper too. Ok the concept of survival of the fittest is about comparing like for like. That if a baby bird is stronger than its siblings it will eat their share of the food and hence survive. How does this concept translate on to the food chain? Look at symbiosis. What complexity needs to be in place for mutual co-existence? Who out of the two were fittest? What was the mechanism of their living with one another?

Is survival of the fittest a rule or merely a trend in some frameworks and totally contradicted in other frameworks? Please tell me.

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Peace guys, i guess you didnt read my long post so i will make it short. Evolution is not a theory, it is a fact. Darwin gave a theory to prove evolution and is called darwin's theory of evolution. just like gravity is a fact but newton gave a theory about it. newton's theory could be wrong but gravity is still a fact.

Again i have been answering simple questions which are proven facts, but still i havent received proof of my humble little question about adam and eve. peace out.

Peace again kaka_in_usa

Evolution when it is stated is meant to be Darwin's Theory of Evolution we just say "evolution" for short. Different types of evolution such as technological evolution, of course exist, but to argue from this perspective is fallacious and if you are doing so willingly would be dishonest.

You know very well that when I say "evolution is a theory" I mean "Darwin's theory of evolution and anything that derives from it ... is a theory" ... Now in this context have you got a falsification test for me yet?

By the way ... The fossil record shows just that a record of what once was ... not how it came about just when it came about. Fossils do not show one species turning into another - they can't do that. You may use some imagination and claim that this is what is happening just like I can make pictures out of clouds in the sky. However, you can also claim that these creatures were created then destroyed and these other creatures were raised in their place. There is no way to dispute this using the fossil record.

[diwana]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Peace guys, i guess you didnt read my long post so i will make it short. Evolution is not a theory, it is a fact.

What is the scientific proof for evolution be a fact? Please list if more than one.

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Darwin gave a theory to prove evolution and is called darwin's theory of evolution. just like gravity is a fact but newton gave a theory about it. newton's theory could be wrong but gravity is still a fact.

Again i have been answering simple questions which are proven facts,

Not proven my friend.

but still i havent received proof of my humble little question about adam and eve. peace out.

Evolution, is seen throughout creation. Both in the short term and the long term. You can see it happening. Its not just a belief system, its based on real observable science.

And its also inevitable. Mutation in our genome occur at a relatively constant rate.

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hose mutations have not been proven to be beneficial for mankind. And they are rather destructive to cells or cells repair them back.

The only thing separating us from other species, is the degree of differentiation in our genome. With enough mutations occurring over a prolonged period, our genome could accumulate

Could accumulate means it is an assumption not proof.

so much differentiation, that we would effectively be

OK. But again it is an assumpton. Not happened yet. No species is better that human overall. And over the time human has been on earth, something should have been seen by now.

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Rememberm adaptations is not what one would consider change in whole species. Genetically it is not possible to change whole genome to make a commpletely different and yet 'better' species..

a new species. So one species becoming a new and different species is not only likely, its inevitable.

Inevitable? OK. but it not yet happened. So how is this a FACT? Just a theory.

.