Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

kaka_in_usa · March 7, 2011, 9:01pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Faris_Udeen:

Actually my friend it's obvious you are entrenched in your beliefs. I can only tell you that it's an established fact that Middle East civilistaions were long believed by the majority of the world to pre-date any other culture. No doubt Indian culture is old maybe older... I cant say for sure... however nothing survives to suggest that at the times the Babylonians had Babels Tower that anything akin to it existed in the Sub-Continent... even the Bhudist Stupas came much later... Sure Middle eastern Civilistations have been borrowing from others but so has Indian civilisation.

As for the idea that Abrahamic belief is the only system which has the creationist theory... again you will find that my ancestors were not Arabs however they believed in Tengri a sole creator. As did the Zororastrians who also believe in a sole creator and even Hinduism mentions a sole creator.

Also most of the Ancient wonders of the world are Middle Eastern... there is nothing recorded that is remotely on the same scale in the Sub-Continent. Unless you can prove me wrong Kaka. :)

^^ I think we are not on the same page here. what do you mean by middle eastern civilization? does it still exist?
there were many civilizations with relics dating back to 12000 BC. or may be older since ruins cant stand forever. also buddhist stupas are current affairs of indus valley civilzations.
what are the ancient wonders of middle east?
i am asking the questions so i can understand what are you trying to state here.

PS. what is a Tengri? which culture believes in it.

Faris_Udeen · March 7, 2011, 9:02pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Welcome aboard

kaka_in_usa · March 7, 2011, 9:04pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

because baba adam and bibi eve are facts and all the scientific ideas are crazy beliefs :(

TLK · March 7, 2011, 9:07pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Muslims also believe that if we hug a non Muslim female, that action may end up giving birth to a monkey looking Darwin.

system · March 7, 2011, 9:11pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

I'm surprised that a lot of Americans of the Christian variety don't believe in evolution either.

Faris_Udeen · March 7, 2011, 9:12pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

By Middle Eastern civilisation I mean the many hordes of peoples that sprang up long before what we now know as the Middle East was even a political entity.

Alamites, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Kushans, Nabateans are all civilisations which existed long time ago. Yes your right they do have relics from 12000BC

The 7 Ancient wonders of the world are The Pyramids of Giza, The Hanging Gardens of Babylon, Temple of Artemis, Statue of Zeus, Collosus of Rhodes, Lighthouse of Alexandria. I might also add that the Tower of Babel may well have been an older structure somewhat simmilar to the survivng tower of Sammaraa, also the ruins of Hatra and Petra are equally anceint though few of the older examples really remain. Aside to the ancient buildings that are mere indicators the archealogical evidence is extensive and there have been many cultures and civilisations that have sprouted from the Ancient middle east hence why it was called the Cradle of Civilistation. While China and India may have older civilisations there is nothing left to prove it… not even close to the level of activity we see in civilisations such as Sumeria which is at least 10,000 years old if not maybe a little older… thats a matter of debate.

Tengri was the universal God of the Tribes of Turkic peoples. Huns, Mongols, Turks, Bulgars, Avars etc all believed in one God Tengri… in fact earliest Turkic Korans had the name Allah translated as Tengri.

Your right we definatley were not on the same page… I might suggest you look into Sumerian Civilisation as the oldest recorded Civilisation.

kaka_in_usa · March 7, 2011, 9:13pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Sure from the bible belt yeah. but then again muslim thinkers derive their inspiration regarding this issue from christian thinkers. Creation bit came first in bible and later adopted by quran if i am not mistaken.
its the similarity of religion which results in similarity of reaction to certain issues.

queer · March 7, 2011, 9:15pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

yeah.. this is even more dangerous given how much sway these kind of people have in deciding the fate of the world.

Faris_Udeen · March 7, 2011, 9:20pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Indeed the Abrahamic faiths sing off the same basic hymn sheet though they cant seem to agree on the tune... :D

Anyway Abrahamic faiths are not the only faiths that believe in a sole creator. As I have pointed out both Steppes and thier cousins the North American Natives also held a simmilar belief in a sole creator or Sky father... as did Zorarastrains who believed that Man was created by divine fire... so the Abrahamic faiths have no monopoly on the matter. :)

kaka_in_usa · March 7, 2011, 9:24pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Faris_Udeen:

By Middle Eastern civilisation I mean the many hordes of peoples that sprang up long before what we now know as the Middle East was even a political entity.

Alamites, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Kushans, Nabateans are all civilisations which existed long time ago. Yes your right they do have relics from 12000BC

The 7 Ancient wonders of the world are The Pyramids of Giza, The Hanging Gardens of Babylon, Temple of Artemis, Statue of Zeus, Collosus of Rhodes, Lighthouse of Alexandria. I might also add that the Tower of Babel may well have been an older structure somewhat simmilar to the survivng tower of Sammaraa, also the ruins of Hatra and Petra are equally anceint though few of the older examples really remain. Aside to the ancient buildings that are mere indicators the archealogical evidence is extensive and there have been many cultures and civilisations that have sprouted from the Ancient middle east hence why it was called the Cradle of Civilistation. While China and India may have older civilisations there is nothing left to prove it… not even close to the level of activity we see in civilisations such as Sumeria which is at least 10,000 years old if not maybe a little older… thats a matter of debate.

Tengri was the universal God of the Tribes of Turkic peoples. Huns, Mongols, Turks, Bulgars, Avars etc all believed in one God Tengri… in fact earliest Turkic Korans had the name Allah translated as Tengri.

Your right we definatley were not on the same page… I might suggest you look into Sumerian Civilisation as the oldest recorded Civilisation.

ok now i know what are you talking aobut. the difference is chinese and indian civilization still exist and the ones you mentined dont. Plus how many of the wonders you mention still exist.
if we are talking about atlantis type of relics then i think this discussion will go no where.
calling middle eastern civilization an cradle etc etc is incorrect. may be they are cradle for themselves but they have not given anything to other civilizations. they are a great civilization among themselves but they didnt influence any other.
i am not trying to chest thump about my own civilization but need to correct the record.
Lookup phunke-phu, it is the most amazing ruins ever discovered by humans. and it predates all that you mentioned by many many thousands of years (yes even pyramids) . plus many other american civilizations are way too old.
every civilization was great in their own, some survived but most of them didnt. we can only talk about the ones existing now and explore the reasons why they survived and give them due credits

system · March 7, 2011, 9:25pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Right, but a lot of early Muslim scientists developed theories of evolution as well, before Darwin:

Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia

Primitive Evolutionary ideas have existed in the Muslim world ever since they were expressed by the Afro-Arab biologist Al-Jahiz (c. 776-869), who first described the struggle for existence, a precursor to natural selection.^{[12]](Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia)}^{[13]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_evolution#cite_note-Mehmet_Bayrakdar_1983-12)} Many other medieval Islamic philosophers and biologists later expressed evolutionary ideas, including Ibn Miskawayh, the Brethren of Purity,^{[14]](Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia)} Abu Rayhan Biruni,^{[15]](Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia)} Nasir al-Din Tusi^{[16]](Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia)} and Ibn Khaldun.^{[17]](Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia)}^{[18]](Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia)}
** Natural selection**

The Mu’tazili scientist and philosopher al-Jahiz (c. 776-869) was the first of the Muslim biologists and philosophers to develop an early theory of evolution. He speculated on the influence of the environment on animals, considered the effects of the environment on the likelihood of an animal to survive, and first described the struggle for existence, a precursor to natural selection.^{[12]](Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia)}^{[13]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_evolution#cite_note-Mehmet_Bayrakdar_1983-12)}^{[19]](Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia)} Al-Jahiz’s ideas on the struggle for existence in the Book of Animals have been summarized as follows:
“Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring.”^{citation needed]}
In Chapter 47 of his India, entitled “On Vasudeva and the Wars of the Bharata,” Abu Rayhan Biruni attempted to give a naturalistic explanation as to why the struggles described in the Mahabharata “had to take place.” He explains it using natural processes that include biological ideas related to evolution, which has led several scholars to compare his ideas to Darwinism and natural selection. This is due to Biruni describing the idea of artificial selection and then applying it to nature:^{[20]](Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia)}
“The agriculturist selects his corn, letting grow as much as he requires, and tearing out the remainder. The forester leaves those branches which he perceives to be excellent, whilst he cuts away all others. The bees kill those of their kind who only eat, but do not work in their beehive. Nature proceeds in a similar way; however, it does not distinguish for its action is under all circumstances one and the same. It allows the leaves and fruit of the trees to perish, thus preventing them from realising that result which they are intended to produce in the economy of nature. It removes them so as to make room for others.”

I already listed Tusi in my earlier post. He went in depth regarding biological evolution. Al-Biruni is interesting because he took the Mahabharata and attempted to explain that according to natural and scientific principles.

kaka_in_usa · March 7, 2011, 9:31pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

i agree that many faiths may believe in god as sole creator but i was talking about the reaction of muslim world regarding evolution or creation.
those other faiths may not react the same way christians and muslims do, that was my point.

btw hinduism asks one interesting question i.e. who created the god ? :D just thowing it out there as an interesting titbit.

also thanks for the info regarding tengri. i had a turkish roommate for 4 years and baastad never told me that.
sometimes i think that muslim world was more tolrent back in those days than now, infact back in the days even in india muslim poets/ sufis etc would replace khuda with ram or bhagwan.
now it is a total blasphemy

Faris_Udeen · March 7, 2011, 9:34pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Well on this point your 100% Right.

Muslims have become like other faiths more intolerant...

Hahah LOL at the Turkish room mate story... maybe the guy just didn't know. :@:

kaka_in_usa · March 7, 2011, 9:38pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

I need no proof my friend, i will take your word for it.
but the question is , can you convince brother pysah.

Faris_Udeen · March 7, 2011, 9:41pm

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

aah now your entering the world of the Sufi…

diwana · March 8, 2011, 1:26am

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

These points may have been discussed but at the risk of repeating and making it clear here are some thoughts.

1- If someone claims to be religious then the person believes on scripture.

2- Non-believer have free will. He/she is free not to belive on scripture.

3- Evolution if true has not been proven by the simple fact that a monkey has always brought monkey, amoeba can only and has only creaed amoeba and the evolutonists no matter how much they be adamant on believing evolution cannot prove one organism can evolve to another.
(Evolution: Evolution (also known as biological or organic evolution) is the change over time in one or more inherited traits found in populations of organisms.

Evolution - Wikipedia)

This is the challenge to any evolutionists.

Surely we would have at least seen other primates catching up to become higher species by now!

The point is: Each species has some similarities to previous one but none has been shown to evolve to higher species by any observation so far. None.

4- Admittedly, no follower of religion can prove Adam AS or Eve (Hawwa) AS were createdd directly by God/Allah except to cite scripture or refute the opposite view.

But they are humble. They never claim to prove it. They are happy to believe on scripture and life for them goes on without worrying on this matter.

5- But evolutionist despite they have not and can not prove even what they believe and deny God’s words, make it diffcult for them deliberately. :hehe:

6- A monkey could evolve to human as Darvin said. Fine. So far have we seen ANY monkey convertng to human or even human evolve (going forward) to become any other species?

If someone says it is slow process then how come not a single human has evolved to something** better** yet over the time human has existed on this world?

**There is no single species better than human over so long period of time. **

7- Has evolution stopped or evolution theory is actually garbage?

8- All species are separate entities. None evolved to other. Similarity is based on most likely genetic codes being partially similar and expression of genes along with adapations to environment which is seen as differences within same species categories.

9- Evoltionists can not even prove their position by doing something actively/deliberately and change one species to other. No they cannot.

They still have to rely on ‘someone’ ( religious people call God) to have evolution be proven even if true which it actually is not.

They say it is slow process since they cannot make it faster.

Krypton · March 8, 2011, 1:36am

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

how do we explain the non-existence of species that existed before us and monkeys?

sharaabee · March 8, 2011, 1:41am

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

It is SHOCKING to see so many people denying evolution!

WOW !

What a deluded life.

diwana · March 8, 2011, 1:50am

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

It is SHOCKING to see so many people denying religion.

WOW!

What a deluded life.

diwana · March 8, 2011, 1:54am

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

You are talking about extinction, the discussion is about evolution.