Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Society Religion & Philosophy
381

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

^ Peace kaka_in_usa

Good question ... One of the major soruces of evidence about the truth of the words of a prophet is miracle ... these are usually for the people at the time of the prophet's missions. There is one miracle which is open for all to see and that is Al-Qur'an. It sounds funny but it is a miracle ... first and foremost it is used as the standard for Arabic and Arabic regulates itself off the Qur'an.

Other forms of evidence is the ability of the prophet to predict the future with accuracy. Some soothsayers and astrologers rely on vagueness in their predictions and people's personal circumstance to give wishy washy predictions that people think come true in their minds ... but Surah Rum in the Qur'an was a fairly specific prophecy about the Romans defeating the pagans after their defeat that when it manifested resulted in many people turning to Islam.

Evidence for our religion is the scholarly process of classification of scripture ... it provides authenticity that things were said and done and experienced.

Evidence for religion are the relics that have been left behind and the existing landmarks ... for example we have the burial chamber of the prophet Muhamamd (SAW) ... all previous prophet's graves locations are not known for sure.

Evidence can be seen in the feeling of peace and in the consistency of the message.

Note none of these are proof - except for perhaps those nations who received direct miracle. All others are subtle signs and signs provide guidance ... these are evidences for us ...

One of the biggest evidences is the prophet Muhammad (SAW) himself ... he was of noblest lineage and he was known as the truthful trustworthy in his lifetime before prophethood and he had a mark on his back between the shoulder blades to indicate that he was a prophet ... This mark is documented in the older Abrahamic traditions and they saw this mark on Muhammad (SAW) after he was born.

382

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

See Psyah i dont want to make it "Is islam a real religion or not" detabe.
but all the "miracles" you have mentioned are not solid in any way. IF only people of that time saw that miracle then what about people today who seek answers in form of miracles. why would be have to just take the words of people before us. I can quote you literally Thousands of miracles claims by prophets, messangers and gods which were and accepted and verified by people of the time.
And the whole miracle thing goes as back as millions of years back and as recent as yesterday.

There are other religious books too of different religions who can also be considered to be miracles, so what does it make it? just a faith right? not evidence.
and prophecies are done by all sorts of people with better accuracy but we dont call them prophets. prophecies are tricky business, please dont confuse prophecy with prediction.

I dont see any real miracle today to take it as evidence.

on the other hand science provides you evidences which you can reproduce for all to see. scientific evidences are right in front of you to see and they will be there for you and for your generations to come. if something can be done yesterday then it can be done today as well.
If science said that newton proved his theory to people of its time only and today if we were only supposed to take those people's words then no one would believe in those theories.
your belief and faith are hardly an evidence to prove a material thing.
Evolution remains fact unless proven other wise because so far only evidence we found supports evolution and darwin's theory.

383

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Peace kaka_in_usa

I totally agree with you ... Read my previous post ... the second to last paragraph - In essence as a Muslim I'm not looking for proof, I'm looking for guidance. As a scientist I'm looking for proof. Evolution is merely as good as any other religion is at providing support for itself - hence it is not a science it is a belief.

Let me quote you ... "which you can reproduce for all to see" ... I have seen no one able to demonstrate the reproduction of evolution and when I say evolution I mean the speciation aspect of it.

384

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

^^ What sorry for the confusion. i meant if some experiment can be done once then it can be done again. and science says evolution is the experiment done by nature, so given the same circumstances on some other planet evolution will happen if there is life over there.
We will know the truth in theory if we find life on some other planet.

but as far as the evolution on the earth goes, the evidences are found in the forms of fossils and DNA. nothing so far has refuted the claims with any counter proof.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Peace kaka_in_usa

science does not say that ... pro-evolutionists say that ... science as you said before is something that can be reproduced ... or even demonstrated against the theory ... every good theory is also falsifiable - you can't falsify what you say - that in order to prove or disprove it you need to go to another planet ... that is not scientific that is a belief. Admit that evolution is a belief and not a fact and then I'm happy.

386

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

One thing I can tell you upfront and have been saying in this thread.

The answer to both of your questions is....
**
Nothing scientific.**

Kaka Ji,

Why are you even wasting your time asking for something which religion and religion followers never even claimed?

Religion is not a scientific belief. It does not need any scientist evidence to be proven my dear.

Now read my above statement in bold three times and never ever ask for a proof similar to evolution theory again. You will save yourself a great amount of time. :)

Evolution theory is a scientific theory. Prove it scientifically! That is a big challenge.

387

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

why do you have to take things out of context and put your words a mine. if you dont have an argument then just accept the fact. evolution theory doesnt need another planet, it is happening right here and we can see it.
the theory that living creatures of other planets will follow the evolution needs to be verified when we get to another planet with life. simeple as that.

Why would i accept that evolution is a belief. I believe in what god presents in front of me, not in theories. you want me to close my eyes to the facts and believe in some fantasy story which you cannot provide any proof but demand all sorts of proofs from me.
evolution is a fact and it doesnt need anybody's moral apporval. where as your theory of creation is just your belief.

388

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

That is what i am saying all along. read my first few posts i guess thats where i mentioned it.
science is based on reality and facts, where as religion is just faith.
And to believe in something scientific or otherwise you need proof and explanation. where as in religion you just believe by having faith. People should stop giving scientific theories from their religious books.
Now explain it to pysah that religion is a belief.

389

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Peace kaka_in_usa

You haven't understood what I have been saying:

Evidence is not proof - I'll say that again evidence is not proof ...

Proof is objective and discrete - evidence can be supporting material it will suggest that something is the case but it cannot show it to be the case with 100% certainty.

Religious texts can be supported with evidence but not necessarily proof except in some small cases ... A scientific theory is an unproven idea that something may be happening in a certain way ... and there is evidence to support that theory ... it will only be called law or scientifically a FACT when it is proven ... until that point it remains a theory ...

I'm saying that the scientific theory of evolution is not better than my faith in Islam because both provide evidence and neither provide proof - however in the case of my religion I'm not obliged to provide proof because faith is about believing without proof. But evolution I can't entertain as a fact because it is not proven and every scientific idea that is a theory should be treated like that ... only until there is proof - then it can be called fact and then I'll accept it. Until that point I won't accept it as fact ... For most of this thread I have not even been calling evolution a valid scientific theory because it is phrased like a religious belief ... a good scientific theory needs to be falsifiable - which basically means that it can be tested.

To say something like **there is life after death **is statement of belief because it is not falsifiable we can never know this to be true/factual - but we can believe it to be true.

Likewise we say evolution takes place over many millions of years is such a statement of beleif because we can't test it since we do not live for millions of years to be able to test it. The fossil record itself is not enough to pinpoint the process of evolution - it could just as easily be different animals that came and went without origin from other life forms. To prove that it did we would have to have to chain of pregnant fossils spanning the duriation of one evolutionary jump and determine that each embryo is genetically equivalent to the mother of the next specimen ... this can only be done for a few hundred years older than this we lose genetic information and older than that i.e. true fossils are no different to rock and mud in make up because their organic structure has become inorganic through time. So just like life after death there is no way we can PROVE the assertion that one species becomes another and hence even the theory of evolution which is supposed to be scientific in my view resembles more of a belief.

Here is a good scientific theory - every object falls to the ground at the rate of 9.8 metres per second squared, when there is negligible/no drag/resistance from the air and when it's mass is insignificant compared to the mass of the Earth. This can be tested.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Evoulotion has nothing to do with Islam Islam completely rejects it and is still a theory not any prove

391

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

:khumar: 20 pages long thread - “filled” with primordial soup of theories and opinions.

How you define “evolution” or “evolution theory”? Is it-

  • That life began spontaneously and humans " evolved" after million of years evolution (only TRUE scientific theory with published papers in support and “evidence” to prove it. Also accepted in academia and TRUE sientific circles. We may question the theory and the proof, but fact remains that it’s the ONLY “official” theory.)

  • That God triggered the life and humans evolved later? (basically a CREATIONIST theory, which only questions the “stage/moment” of creation. No publications to support creation, no evidence -which of course is not needed as creationism is based on belief.)

  • That humans were created not evolved? (a position all theological groups take.)

Why not make a poll and see who actually supports EVOLUTION (in true scientific sense) and who believes in creationism? (we may disagree on when creation came into being) :khumar:

392

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

^ Peace Uncle Falker

In case you missed the points I was making ... I do not accept the theory of evolution as being up to the mark to qualify as a scientific theory ...

I'm not even arguing whether evolution is true or not ... I'm only asking the pro-evolutionists to provide a theory of evolution that I can verify ... for myself as a scientist ... that is all !!! That is ALL .... Aaaarghhh !!! LOL :)

393

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Evolution(also known as biological or organic evolution) is the change in time in one or more inherited traits found in populations of organisms.

now inherited traits not always go exactly in offsprigs(case of bisexual organisms) so eg in human beings skin color for example can be modified in offsprings bt some times it is nt modified according to this EVOLUTION IS DEFINITLY POSSIBLE AND SOME WHAT A TRUE THEORY

WHY MUSLIMS GOT PROBLEM WITH EVOLUTION
according to scientist human beings are evolved from monkeys or aps we dont believe that
if majority of biologists belive in the above theory still there are many that dsnt believe in that
EVOLUTION is possible as we adjust ourselves with surroundings etc we believe that once human beings were tall and gigantic bt now we r not
rejecting few theories dsnt mean that we dnt believe in EVOLUTiON

IF HUMAN BEINGS EVOLVED FROM APS WHY THERE R STILL MONKEYS AND APS OR WHY NO ONE HAS SEEN AnY MONKEY EVOLVING INTO A HUMAN BEING

394

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

EVOLUTION is not a single theory its a whole branche of biology consisting many theories

395

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

All of science is the ever evolving theory... No Scientist of any repute would ever claim to have "figured it all out."
As new evidence presents itself, we modify the science to reflect the new reality.
Sometimes science evolves by complimenting what we already know, and other times, it evolves in a way that replaces something we thought we knew, but turns out were wrong about.
So the fact that Evolution science is evolving in no way diminishes it.

396

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

:omg: :omg: not even gonna bother. you are misinformed.

397

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Lets be honest with ourselves here. At the risk of sounding blasphemous, one as to admit that we really have no genuine evidence to support Islam or any other religion. That we trust the Koran is a because we choose to believe that its a valid source... Have you ever seen a miracle? Have you ever seen God? Can you prove to me with what you consider to be proof, that there is a God, and that Islam is his choosen faith? This is what I mean by intelectual dishonesty. There is nothing wrong with believing for the sake of believing, but claiming that there is evidence to support your faith, is completely dishonest. I know we al wish for irrefutable evidence for our faith, but it does not exist.

Evolution and infact any science is based on a preponderance of evidence which shows something to be true. Besides the inevitability of species differentiating and evolving into new species etc, there is complimentarity to the evidence supporting evolution.

That evolution has been disproven is comepletly new to me. How exactly has evolution been dis proven? The reason the change it is because the understanding of it evolves as you said, just as the understanding of any other science can evolve. When Einstein elaborated on the nature of gravity and its effects on space, many scientists refused to believe him and stuck to their guns. That is until it was shown to be true and so the abandoned old assumptions and moved on, but that did not mean they abandoned as discredited, the older model completely, it simply elaborated on the older model.
So Evolution as an over all reality is established, its the nuts an bolts that are still up for debate, and are the things that change as our understanding of the over all concept evolves.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

just tell me where it is proven that Evolution theory has just become fact and its not a theory any more you will find it no where

399

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Evolution has not been established till up to date do not try to make a theory which is still a theory a fact

400

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

are people still debating this issue

how can you believe in monkey magic, to believe we evolved from apes is ridiculous where is missing link why are there monkeys and apes today what happened did they forget to evolve