Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

All of science is the ever evolving theory... No Scientist of any repute would ever claim to have "figured it all out." As new evidence presents itself, we modify the science to reflect the new reality. Sometimes science evolves by complimenting what we already know, and other times, it evolves in a way that replaces something we thought we knew, but turns out were wrong about. So the fact that Evolution science is evolving in no way diminishes it.

Peace Med911

Science does evolve you are right ... however the evolution of science presents NEW theories to replace the OLD ones - it does not modify an existing bias with further caveats in order to show the original premise to be true ... This is the nature of the ever evolving theory - it attempts to define a phenomenon and when evidence contradicts it - then some smart alec modifies the theory instead of rejecting it.

Science evolution is a different thing entirely, firstly science evolves through conscious effort and intelligent processing and in that context evolution never occurs without this proviso, secondly, science evolution is a matter of parameters and context ... Newtonian physics for example is completely valid on a macro scale i.e. it can be demonstrated that forces exist the way they do in quantities from a sand grain upwards ... Then when we learnt about the atomic and sub-atomic realms we needed different models - one theory does not invalidate the other it just improves the context and develops theories on different parameters.

In the same vein if we take the basic idea of evolution which is "a species from another" we can't demonstrate this at all. We can show evidence i.e. the fossil record but it is not "fool proof" evidence ... which means the evidence can be explained away with counter arguments - such as - similar looking creatures are found in similar environments without cause to being related to one another. As one species exists and dies another comes and replaces it without being related. The fossil records can just as easily be telling this story as well as the story the pro-evolutionists tell ... I have said this a number of times in this thread. It is argued by rationalists that when a basic theory has to be proped up a number of times to explain inconsistencies then the original theory should be forsaken.

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@Med911

Lets be honest with ourselves here. At the risk of sounding blasphemous, one as to admit that we really have no genuine evidence to support Islam or any other religion. That we trust the Koran is a because we choose to believe that its a valid source… Have you ever seen a miracle? Have you ever seen God? Can you prove to me with what you consider to be proof, that there is a God, and that Islam is his choosen faith? This is what I mean by intelectual dishonesty. There is nothing wrong with believing for the sake of believing, but claiming that there is evidence to support your faith, is completely dishonest. I know we al wish for irrefutable evidence for our faith, but it does not exist.

Evolution and infact any science is based on a preponderance of evidence which shows something to be true. Besides the inevitability of species differentiating and evolving into new species etc, there is complimentarity to the evidence supporting evolution.

That evolution has been disproven is comepletly new to me. How exactly has evolution been dis proven? The reason the change it is because the understanding of it evolves as you said, just as the understanding of any other science can evolve. When Einstein elaborated on the nature of gravity and its effects on space, many scientists refused to believe him and stuck to their guns. That is until it was shown to be true and so the abandoned old assumptions and moved on, but that did not mean they abandoned as discredited, the older model completely, it simply elaborated on the older model.
So Evolution as an over all reality is established, its the nuts an bolts that are still up for debate, and are the things that change as our understanding of the over all concept evolves.

Peace again Med911

I never claimed evoution has been disproven - I was stating that in order to be a valid scientific theory it has to be falsifiable. Please understand the stark contrast in these statements.

Here is genuine evidence to support Islam:

a) Holy sites and burial ground of prophet Muhammad (SAW) is in tact and present
b) The consistency in the Qur’an - it is preserved (through the hearts of people) and documentary evidence shows this
c) The classification of narrations is scientifically orchestrated since the earliest times.

Thes provide support towards the authenticity of historical and scriptural truth of Islam. Next we look at miracles - each breath I take is a miracle and the concept of gravity or life is a miracle in the true sense because not matter what science does it can take two phenomena and link them together to say what it happening - it can never say “why”.

Look up the definition of the word “phenomenon” - here is a definition:

phenomenon

and miracle:

miracle

To me these are not entirely different terms … to me a miracle is when a thing happens that betrays the pattern of the natural order we observe … and a phenomenon is very much part of it … both are marvels and just like a miracle cannot be explained - the existence of every phenomenon has no explanation. Every mass exhibits gravity - why? Why should every mass exhibit gravity? If this is not a miracle then what is?

Besides we have a very good miracle before us which is “The Qur’an” and now my friend is your real opportunity to sound blasphemous - are you going to argue that The Qur’an is not a miracle?

If you even study Arabic you will see how much of a miracle it is on the language front - we know the best poets of the time could not match the Qur’an and we have a completely unlettered prophet (SAW) who presents us with the scripture. Like any good scientific theory the Qur’an provides a “falsification test” unlike “evolution” - The Qur’an states: “If this were from other than God surely therein you would find much discrepency” and “bring one verse like it …” voila you have a sound falsification test … one that the evolutionists are shy of presenting to us.

Further there have been a number of recorded proven prophecies that came to fruition … not in wishy washy words but succinct accurate words.

Yet in all this conversation I am not claiming proof - just simple evidence - because if proof was given to us and we still didn’t accept it - then our fate would be similar to the nations of the past. I have been talking from the point of view that in Islam we look for guidance and are shown signs - not proof. I am behaving within the parameters of my belief. On the other hand if I operate within the parameters of science - the theory of evolution fails big time.

Here is another set of tests in the Qur’an … Paraphrased it challenges all the greatest minds to come together make the wing of a fly or that when a gnat takes our blood from us then for us to try and retrieve that blood back … Simple tests … but miraculously accurate …

[rari389]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Take anthropology people only then will you realize that evolution does not threaten your belief in GOD as a matter of fact it might strengthen it!

[_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Why? Because most Muslims do not understand the mechanics of evolution and how it can fit perfectly within Islamic theology.

Take anthropology people only then will you realize that evolution does not threaten your belief in GOD as a matter of fact it might strengthen it!

+1

[_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@Med911

Lets be honest with ourselves here. At the risk of sounding blasphemous,** one as to admit that we really have no genuine evidence to support Islam or any other religion. That we trust the Koran is a because we choose to believe that its a valid source… Have you ever seen a miracle? Have you ever seen God? Can you prove to me with what you consider to be proof, that there is a God, and that Islam is his choosen faith?** This is what I mean by intelectual dishonesty. There is nothing wrong with believing for the sake of believing, but claiming that there is evidence to support your faith, is completely dishonest. I know we al wish for irrefutable evidence for our faith, but it does not exist.

Technically speaking, nobody can prove that there isn’t a God. And there are some things stated in the Quran which in that era (1400 years ago) could only be provided by miraculous events, such as the detailed development of embryology, electricity, nuclear particles/atomic theory, etc. This stuff wasn’t “scientifically” discovered until the past couple of centuries.

Keith L. Moore is a professor emeritus in the division of anatomy (department of surgery), former Chair of anatomy from 1974 to 1984 and associate dean for Basic Medical Sciences (Faculty of Medicine) at the University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He has also worked at the King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Moreover, he is a founding member of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists (AACA). He was President of the AACA between 1989 and 1991. He is most known for his textbooks on the subjects of anatomy and human embryology.

“It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah, because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God or Allah”.

Dr. Gerald C. Goeringer is Course Director and Associate Professor of Medical Embryology at the Department of Cell Biology, School of Medicine, Georgetown University, Washington, DC, USA.

*T.V.N. Persaud, MD, PhD
Professor and Former Head, Department of Human Anatomy and Cell Science, Professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, Professor of Obstetrics, Gynecology, and Reproductive Sciences, University of Manitoba, Faculty of Medicine; Consultant in Pathology and Clinical Genetics, Health Sciences Centre, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada;

Dr. Yoshihide Kozai, Tokyo Institute of Technology;

Dr. E. Marshall Johnson is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Developmental Biology at Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. There, for 22 years he was Professor of Anatomy, the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy, and the Director of the Daniel Baugh Institute. He was also the President of the Teratology Society. He has authored more than 200 publications;

Professor and Chairman of the
Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Texas, USA;

Professor Alfred Kröner (8 September 1939 in Kassel, Germany ) is a retired Professor of Geology at Johannes Gutenberg University of Mainz in Mainz, Germany. He specializes in the pre-Cambrian geology of Africa.
*

[junaid001]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

evolution as presented by darwin was nothing but farce frankly.

life is an intelligent being it does adapt but to say we were monkey and now human is farce.
there can be common threads in all of the life which mean everyone came from one source.

i havent read evolution considerably and havent done much pondering so bear my thoughts and any evolutionist please answer following queries and please to basics.

have you ever to date man with eyes on the back and who had lived.
ever seen a man with heart out of body and survived.
evr seen a man with four eyes.
ever seen a version of human in memorable history who had been different and survived ?
if a man had six fingers i bet his son wont have more than 5.

[_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Very lame set of questions.

[Mirch]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@Med911

As a Muslim it always been beyond me why Muslims would be against Evolution. There is nothing specifically against Evolution in the Koran. If the evidence shows that evolution is a reality, why are so many people unwilling to acknowledge reality? Its like denying the Sun exists or that we breath Oxygen.

Imam who believes in evolution retracts statements

                                                               Many British Muslims do not believe in Darwin's theory of evolution   
                   An imam has retracted  statements about evolution and the right of Muslim women not to cover  their hair after death threats were made against him. 
     Dr Usama Hasan, a science lecturer, has voluntarily suspended his role in taking Friday prayers at Leyton Mosque in east London.
     He said he went too far in the way he defended the theory of evolution.  
     He acknowledged many British Muslims believe in creationism, adding that he intended only to begin a debate. 
     Dr Hasan - a senior lecturer at Middlesex University - [used an opinion piece on the Guardian newspaper's website](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/11/religion.darwinbicentenary)in 2008 to suggest Darwin's theory of evolution was not incompatible with the teaching of Islam. 
     He wrote that there were many Muslim biologists who had no  doubt about the essential correctness of evolutionary theory and he  added: "Many believers in God have no problem with an obvious solution:  that God created man via evolution."

‘Obscuring clear scientific thinking’ Dr Hasan wrote: “Snazzy websites, videos and books produced by fundamentalist Muslim ‘creationists’ such as those at www.harunyahya.com, are obscuring clear scientific thinking.”
He also wrote: "One problem is that many Muslims retain the simple picture that God created Adam from clay, much as a potter makes a statue, and then breathed into the lifeless statue and lo! it became a living human.
“This is a children’s madrasa-level understanding and Muslims really have to move on as adults and intellectuals.”
In a separate article he claimed the requirement for women to cover their hair in public was cultural in origin, and that British Muslims should have the choice.
The BBC’s Religious Affairs Correspondent Robert Pigott said his remarks three years ago have led to fatwas denouncing him from Muslim scholars in several countries.
More recently, it was reported that he was subjected to death threats when he delivered a lecture in January and that a leaflet campaign had been mounted against him.
Dr Hasan, who is vice chairman of Leyton Mosque - which houses one of the country’s largest sharia courts - has agreed he went too far in suggesting that the Adam of the creation story would have had human parents.

Imam who believes in evolution retracts statements - BBC News

And whats with the Death threats? You would think England of all places would be a place where scholars could openly express their opinions without the threat of violence, but apparently, close minded religious fanatics cant even countenance free speech in other countries besides their own.

It is so simple if you can show just one human dead or alive who does not have belly button then I will believe in evolution. Till then I will keep on believing in creationism.

@The_Player

Is there proof that Adam was the first human ? People believe it only because their religious text tells them about it.

Yep they discovered a completely preserved pair of man and wife bodies in Alaska who did not have belly button. But they hid those bodies so that all the evolutionists could keep their teaching and research jobs. How can they kill a whole industry based on theory of evolution. (A conspiracy theory)
P.S. All rights are reserved for this theory in my name so provide all the right references when you quote this theory anywhere else.

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

It is so simple if you can show just one human dead or alive who does not have belly button then I will believe in evolution. Till then I will keep on believing in creationism.

...

Yep they discovered a completely preserved pair of man and wife bodies in Alaska who did not have belly button. But they hid those bodies so that all the evolutionists could keep their teaching and research jobs. How can they kill a whole industry based on theory of evolution. (A conspiracy theory) P.S. All rights are reserved for this theory in my name so provide all the right references when you quote this theory anywhere else.

Peace Mirch bro

This tunnee thing is hilarious !!! On one hand you are saying that no belly button will prove evolution to you and on the other hand you are saying that the evolutionists hid the bodies that could prove their own belief ... but really having no tunnee means Adam and Eve ... isn't this confusing?

[Mirch]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@psyah

Peace Mirch bro

This tunnee thing is hilarious !!! On one hand you are saying that no belly button will prove evolution to you and on the other hand you are saying that the evolutionists hid the bodies that could prove their own belief … but really having no tunnee means Adam and Eve … isn’t this confusing?

That is the point. Evolutionists try to confuse with mumbo jumbo of words , so I have the right to do so too.

[kchughtai]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

21 pages and no result. I have questions for both sides:

Questions for pro darwanian theory: What is the basis of your firm belief in this theory since it has not become a law like newton's law of gravitation. One can say that this theory may be true or false till proven. Why are you so much inflexible on this? Is it because muslims' belief are in contrast to this theory? Apart from that, as many of you mentioned that evolution is a very slow process then why can't we see monkeys, intermediary species (between monkeys and homo sapiens) co-exist. isn't that strange that monkeys (the alleged forefathers of humans) exist but intermediate stages are all missing. why?
the great void between humans and monkeys in their behavioral patterns and mental potential cannot be explained? A comparison between
humans and monkeys in all these fields will show that human potential is many billion times greater than that of the monkeys

Question to the ones against darwanian theory. what is your basis of outright rejecting the darwanian theory. Could you please corroborate your stance from the Islamic scripture?

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Question to the ones against darwanian theory. what is your basis of outright rejecting the darwanian theory. Could you please corroborate your stance from the Islamic scripture?

I'm against Darwinian theory of evolution but the question is asking on what basis an outright rejection is made ... I wouldn't know ... I only reject the complete theory not some various aspects in isolation.

My basis for rejecting them is lack of evidence let alone proof. I stress I accept some aspects since they do have evidence, but the theory as a whole is incongruent.

[Krypton]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

lock this thread already. u accept all the pieces that support evolution and deny the occurrence of evolution.

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@philosophy

lock this thread already. u accept all the pieces that support evolution and deny the occurrence of evolution.

Nope I said some

[kchughtai]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@psyah

My basis for rejecting them is lack of evidence let alone proof. I stress I accept some aspects since they do have evidence , but the theory as a whole is incongruent.

you said you reject the whole theory on the basis of lack of evidence. but what 'some aspects' that you believe have evidence

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@kchughtai

you said you reject the whole theory on the basis of lack of evidence. but what 'some aspects' that you believe have evidence

Peace kchughtai

Obviously you did not read the 400 odd posts in this thread .... LOL ... To summarise once again ...

The theory of evolution is not a single theory - it utilises a number of different theories to construct the belief ....

One theory that I believe does exist to a certain extent is "natural selection" - Natural selection is the reason for variation within a species ... however pro-evolutionists make a "conclusion jump" and deduce by parallels that since variation occurs within the species it can occur to create new species. No proof of this exists ... to illustrate some sort of evidence to support this is the pattern in the fossil record ... I do see a pattern in the fossil record which is that simlar life forms in shape used to live in similar habitats - the pro-evolutionists conclude that lifeforms change to suit their environment - I say that life forms are placed in environments that are suited to them. The fossil record being a line in the sand at a point in time cannot tell you how those creatures got there just that they were there and when. Another problem with the fossil record is that all fossils are classified by the zoological anthropology (i.e. by appearance) - they have no genetics to measure forget about DNA they don't have organic structures anymore - the fossils are so old they have become inorganic.

Survival of the fittest is true to a certain extent but when it comes to humans it is not always true.

To account for this some pro-evolutionists claim that our evolutionary cycle is going backwards. They have ongoing bolt-ons to the base theory of evolution which in the long run doesn't resemble the base theory anymore ... It's like the person who said the world will end on 21st of May and then he modifed it to the rapture and that it's the beginning of the end and so on ...

As a "whole complete theory" it's elements do not speak to each other - they do not mesh and they do not lead to natural conclusions, but I accept that elements within evolution are true but in actual fact they are perfectly good stand alone theories they are not true because of evolution ... rather evolution is being pushed as true because of those theories from which it is constituted ... Survival of the fittest for example is not a theory based on evolution ... this theory came before evolution ... even then there are caveats to the theory ... i.e. how do we qualify "fittest"? Some say the best at dealing with their environment, some say it means the healthiest, strongest, most clever ...

A good theory is when you connect together a series of laws (proven in a context) ... but if you connect together a series of theories (i.e. not proven) it becomes very weak. Evolution is a melting pot of some good and sound theories, but some poor ones. The shayyateen have a tendency of mixing truth with lies ...

[javedmiandad]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@psyah

Peace kchughtai

Obviously you did not read the 400 odd posts in this thread .... LOL ... To summarise once again ...

The theory of evolution is not a single theory - it utilises a number of different theories to construct the belief ....

A good theory is when you connect together a series of laws (proven in a context) ... but if you connect together a series of theories (i.e. not proven) it becomes very weak. Evolution is a melting pot of some good and sound theories, but some poor ones. The shayyateen have a tendency of mixing truth with lies ...

seriously i thought this debate about evolution was dead in my college days people still going on about it unbelievable.

plain and simple evolution theory is bakwas

what is probaility of evolution happening it is 10(40000)i.e 1 to a number which has 40,000 zero's after it can you even imagine such a number you will need a computer to get to that number.

These evolution theorist's need a new hobby because they believe in nothing came from nothing hilarious and even if you give them the probability number of it happening they still believe in it too funny!

[psyah]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@javedmiandad

seriously i thought this debate about evolution was dead in my college days people still going on about it unbelievable.

plain and simple evolution theory is bakwas

what is probaility of evolution happening it is 10(40000)i.e 1 to a number which has 40,000 zero’s after it can you even imagine such a number you will need a computer to get to that number.

These evolution theorist’s need a new hobby because they believe in nothing came from nothing hilarious and even if you give them the probability number of it happening they still believe in it too funny!

LOL … This is the funniest post I’ve heard for a long time … thanks

[Krypton]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

^that's exactly how i feel about your and diwanabees posts in here ;)

[kaka_in_usa]

Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Please Dont lock this thread. I am having fun.