Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
After all worfd and no real scientific proof to say why you could not come up with fish remained fish.
Did you even get the example of cars? :)
The species may develop some genetic mutations and some beneficial some not.
But to extrapolate it in to evolution is a stretch and pure imagination.
Okay, let's take it a step at a time. How/why do the species develop some genetic mutations?
And yes, I got the example of cars, I enjoyed it very much. : D
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
Seriously Tops?
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
Kufr - it is the act of rejecting the truth ... diwana bro ... I can't see anything but kufr in the responses of the pro-evolutionists ... Ask them for a falsification test.
The only one they are able to present is the "test that lasts millions of years". Is that not the same as saying God exists ... see on the Day of Judgement that will take place in the future to see if we are correct? Evolution is a belief system.
ignorance, o bible-thumper of another kind.
you need to read the link i gave diwana. save the preaching, sista. "God" is not scientifically acceptable proof for anything. heck, even a court of law won't accept any of that stuff as evidence.
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
I can’t help it! It’s like, I need to know what he is going to come out with next! It’s all terribly fascinating. :0
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
prays for Topo's endurance and strength
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
Ha. Jo, more than endurance, I need popcorn!
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
omg topo. just forget it...he thinks he is above all. there is a mental block..let him live in his static world
; )enjoy the entertainment
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
^ I think diwana gets too easily maligned, he should be given as many opportunities as possible to express himself.
: D
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
OK sumvun splain me pleej i simple words that a 8 year old can understand, a description of evolution and a description of what the generally acceptable Islamic perception is.
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
Diwana, bru... Don't sweat it.
Haters Gon' Hate.
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
Niksik, I don't seem to be very good at explaining stuff, but I'll give it a shot.
The gradual change of an organism over a long time. Basically, the theory goes: plants and animals have descended from simple ancestors ; the changes from one generation to the next would have been very small, but over millions of years they have (could have) added upto some big changes.
The Greeks proposed this more than 2500 years ago, and then in the 19th century Charles Darwin, and a chap called Wallace, provided an explanation of how the changes could have taken place. The individuals of a species always vary; some can run faster. Some have better camouflage, and some are better at finding food than others.
The individuals with the most useful features survive the best and have the most offspring, and because offspring tends to resemble their parents, some of the useful features are passed onto the next generation. So the animals gradually get better suited to their surroundings and more efficient at catching food or escaping their enemies.
Conditions are not the same everywhere, so a variation that is useful in one place maybe not be useful in another. A species can therefore evolve differently in different places and give rise to to two or more species, each well suited to its own habitat. Those which are not suited, die out. Darwin called this Natural Selection.
Then there is genetic drift, but I need to go get started on dinner now.
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
I don’t hate him, he delights me!
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
you guys are still fighting?
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
^ A little bit of teasing aside, we're not fighting. : )
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
Yikes. Ahahaha.
Psyah If all the findings from over a hundred years worth of research, from fields ranging from palaeontology to bio geography, isn't convincing, then I doubt the results of one single experiment is going to settle anything for those that dismiss evolution. There was an evolutionary biologist, I forget his name at the minute, who pointed out that if we found a rabbit fossil from the jurassic era, then the theory of evolution would be in trouble. We have not found anything so divisive. Instead, all the data collected from different fields fits a pattern. The fossil record, genetics, studies in morphology, they do not disprove each other. That pattern points to (ha, Diwana :P) evolution. From fish to four legged animals, from four legged animals to mammals, and so on.
Terms like 'points to' seems to be' 'will inevitably lead to' etc are used because it is acknowledged that there is yet more to understand, but that should not negate what has already been understood. In science things are always open to re-evaluation, and yet with all the progress and new discoveries that are being made, that pattern is getting stronger - not weaker. Rejecting the truth? No. There is a huge difference between rejecting the truth and trying to figure out what the truth is, I'm sure you're aware of that.
Diwana, when you say things like "No concrete evidence...as science demands." I worry, because it indicates that perhaps you do not understand the scientific approach and what constitutes scientific evidence. I don't like saying that, it sounds awfully presumptuous and I don't wish to be dismissive but man, you test even my patience!
Cichlids, it goes beyond shapes and colours. I'm thinking queer's right, a discussion of speciation and adaptive radiation is going to be a complete waste of both our time. I have to be honest, the rest of that post makes me alternate between giggling and wanting to pull my hair out. I'm sitting here wandering how to tackle your ' fish stayed fish' comment, it's like something out of Monty Python. :D I am so going to regret this. Would you be up for a group read of a book on evolution?
Ok ok I get it ... there are lots of fossils each slightly different in different times ... I get that I really do ...
What I don't however understand yet is ... surely this does not suggest only evolution it also suggests another thing that could be happening. The other thing actually could be that that these species suddenly appear without connection to previous living creatures live a while and die off and new creatures suddenly appear in their place.
What is it in the fossil record that can prove evolution - i.e. the linking progression of species to species but at the same time NEGATE the idea that those creatures did not suddenly appear? And if we look to evidence I have seen no example of evolution taking place, but I have seen many examples of whole species becoming extinct and new ones coming into existence. It's like scientists have said that was not there before - hmm now it is there ... then they will seek out what that new species MIGHT have come from. The dodo did become extinct and the dingo did appear in those areas after it became extinct - do we hence conclude that the dodo evolved in to a dingo?
Or merely that one species fought competitively with another for a small time and replaced it? What diwana and I are asking for is evidence that will rule out any other explanation ... not just offer a bit of support to the idea of evolution, but prove it to be the ONLY explanation.
ignorance, o bible-thumper of another kind.
you need to read the link i gave diwana. save the preaching, sista. "God" is not scientifically acceptable proof for anything. heck, even a court of law won't accept any of that stuff as evidence.
I never claimed God is scientifically acceptable proof, but I hasten to add that neither is evolution.
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
Yikes. Ahahaha.
Psyah If all the findings from over a hundred years worth of research, from fields ranging from palaeontology to bio geography, isn't convincing, then I doubt the results of one single experiment is going to settle anything for those that dismiss evolution. There was an evolutionary biologist, I forget his name at the minute, who pointed out that if we found a rabbit fossil from the jurassic era, then the theory of evolution would be in trouble. We have not found anything so divisive. Instead, all the data collected from different fields fits a pattern. The fossil record, genetics, studies in morphology, they do not disprove each other. That pattern points to (ha, Diwana :P) evolution. From fish to four legged animals, from four legged animals to mammals, and so on.
Terms like 'points to' seems to be' 'will inevitably lead to' etc are used because it is acknowledged that there is yet more to understand, but that should not negate what has already been understood. In science things are always open to re-evaluation, and yet with all the progress and new discoveries that are being made, that pattern is getting stronger - not weaker. Rejecting the truth? No. There is a huge difference between rejecting the truth and trying to figure out what the truth is, I'm sure you're aware of that.
Diwana, when you say things like "No concrete evidence...as science demands." I worry, because it indicates that perhaps you do not understand the scientific approach and what constitutes scientific evidence. I don't like saying that, it sounds awfully presumptuous and I don't wish to be dismissive but man, you test even my patience!
Cichlids, it goes beyond shapes and colours. I'm thinking queer's right, a discussion of speciation and adaptive radiation is going to be a complete waste of both our time. I have to be honest, the rest of that post makes me alternate between giggling and wanting to pull my hair out. I'm sitting here wandering how to tackle your ' fish stayed fish' comment, it's like something out of Monty Python. :D I am so going to regret this. Would you be up for a group read of a book on evolution?
Good post!
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
Scientists are not imposing evolution on religion. They are just doing their work for the benefits and development of this earth. When scientists said that earth was round, they were punished by religion but they continued their work which lead to the discovery of the "New World". If they were stifled then we would not have been seeing the globe as we know it today.
Abrahamic religions date back not more than 10,000 years whereas evolution is being supported by the fossil evidences from millions and billions of years time. No religious book tells about the Dinosaurs but now we know they were a reality on earth.
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not." Surah Al Baqra , ayat no 30 ]
if angels have no Ilm-e-gaib , how could they know that the humans will make mischief on earth ?
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
Okay, let's take it a step at a time. How/why do the species develop some genetic mutations?
And yes, I got the example of cars, I enjoyed it very much. : D
And I bet you will not be able to prove even a single step beyond mutation to prove Evolution.
Like I said, you need to bring YOUR take on this absurd theory. Do not place a link like queer tried.
I do not blame queer for not understanding the whole topic here ( or anything scientific), but hoping that you could tell why do you think mutations can ever lead to change in species over time.
Enlighten me. Not just entertain. :D
Remind you!... you have been asking questions..... but so far you have not contributed to the discussion with anything solid from your side.
You could not even bring the reason why you said Cichilds goes beyond color or shape. What a sad way to discuss.
Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?
I never claimed God is scientifically acceptable proof, but I hasten to add that neither is evolution.
right, which is why scientists thinks evolution is based on blind faith, just like religion. oh wait, they don't. sorry pal..