Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jains, Sikhs, Buddhists, whoever you are we are Indians first
Re: why are Indian muslims such ‘nationalists’?
in a nut-shell: self preservation.
They get beaten and discriminated against while being percieved as fellow countrymen, imagine what would happen to them if they actually didnt appear shah sai ziada shah ke wafadar.
even now you still come across articles where Indian Muslims are mistrusted in their own country. the last time indian pakistani armies were face to face, Indian Muslims went around pathetically trying to make excuses in the face of mistrust.
BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | India’s Muslims feel backlash
Re: why are Indian muslims such 'nationalists'?
Mr.Shortdog,
I think you are lying. What Indians have you talked to? If this is the degree of hatred you exhibit when you talk to Indians, just be glad they pity you enough and tell you anything
In 1947, Muslims had a choice. Those who could not co-exist with Hindus decided to form their own country - Pakistan. Those that stayed back were happy co-existing with Hindus the way they had done for ages.
Pakistani Muslims are Muslims first & Pakistani later. Indian Muslims are Indian first. Thats the basic difference between the mindset of Indian & Pakistani muslims.
it was less of an issue of not being able to coexist but have more control over their own destiny.
I dont think there is always happy coexisting in India, the riots have shown that again and again.
lastly, everyone has a right to be nationalist, no issue there.
Re: why are Indian muslims such 'nationalists'?
A true muslim is muslim first and pakistani second.
A true pakistani is pakistani first and muslim second.
A true idiot is one who is both true muslim and true pakistani.
it was less of an issue of not being able to coexist but have more control over their own destiny.
I dont think there is always happy coexisting in India, the riots have shown that again and again.
lastly, everyone has a right to be nationalist, no issue there.
Fights (riots in this case) even take place in a family - saas-bahu, bhai-bhai etc. But that does not mean they do not co-exist.
It is very difficult for people who have not visited India (especially Pakistanis whose nation was formed on not being able to co-exist with majority Hindu population) to understand how Hindus & Muslims live in India.
There are extremist elements on both sides who play on their constituency's insecurities, but the majority does not get swayed by that.
The fact that there has been virtually no backlash against Muslims after the various bomb blasts in 2008 traced to Muslim groups proves that the basic social structure of the country is still intact.
Fights (riots in this case) even take place in a family - saas-bahu, bhai-bhai etc. But that does not mean they do not co-exist.
It is very difficult for people who have not visited India (especially Pakistanis whose nation was formed on not being able to co-exist with majority Hindu population) to understand how Hindus & Muslims live in India.
There are extremist elements on both sides who play on their constituency's insecurities, but the majority does not get swayed by that.
The fact that there has been virtually no backlash against Muslims after the various bomb blasts in 2008 traced to Muslim groups proves that the basic social structure of the country is still intact.
well when families fights turn violent then it is still an issue.
and once again, Pakistan came into being because the majority muslim areas wanted to have more control on their destiny. you can out whatever you want in paranthesis but saying it multiple times does not make it a fact.
I suppose if a more confederation model had agreed upon things may have been different. Many indians seem to forget conveniently that the more religiously inclined groups did not support the formation of pakistan anyways.
basic social structure may be intact but there are many rips where we see the butchering of minorities. agreed that its minority extremist factions in some cases with government patronage or generally tolerated groups like VHP and RSS but yep that does not mean all indians are like that. I know enough and am freinds with enough to know that. i sometimes wonder if many Indians have any real Pakistani friends to see ppl for who they are and not stay stuck in the pathetic weiner swinging that is more suited to the ignorant fools in both nations.
Pakistani Muslims are Muslims first & Pakistani later. Indian Muslims are Indian first. Thats the basic difference between the mindset of Indian & Pakistani muslims.
LOL.. You sure about that? Have you ever put Muslims in a position where they have to choose their religion over their nationality?
I know Indian Muslims aswell, we have them where we live.. And I can tell you one thing, they dont wear Indian flag print burqas.
Re: why are Indian muslims such 'nationalists'?
Bottom line is that Indian Muslims are loyal, only so far as it keeps them from being burnt alive.
Re: why are Indian muslims such 'nationalists'?
dil ko behlaney ke liye yeh khayal acha hai med911..
chalo, why are half of pakistani muslims not loyal to pakistan? kya takleef hai in ghaddaaroN ko? haiN?
A true muslim is muslim first and pakistani second. A true pakistani is pakistani first and muslim second. A true idiot is one who is both true muslim and true pakistani.
so u are saying that true muslim is an idiot. Think before speak.
LOL.. You sure about that? Have you ever put Muslims in a position where they have to choose their religion over their nationality?
I know Indian Muslims aswell, we have them where we live.. And I can tell you one thing, they dont wear Indian flag print burqas.
Well, ever since Pakistan was created, and both countries became hostile to each other, it was widely believed in India, that Indian Muslim (Most of them), have been sympathetic to Pakistan. I dont want to go into details or arguments, but its true, everyone knows that at least in India. And let me make it clear, that it was true for most muslims but definetely not for all of them.
Considering the Islamic teaching, its not bad either. As a muslim, one has to be brotherly and friendly to muslim rather than kuffar. There is no place of Nationality in Islam but concept of Ummah is supreme. Same applies here.But unfortunately, most hindus of India were always unable to digest this notion. They always felt that pro-Pakistan bias of Indian muslims is equivalant to treason. This feeling may have prompted some muslims to act in a Nationalist way. One cant doubt about that.
Muslims are seen as a maltreated and oppressed community in India by Pakistanis in general. This is absolutely false statement. While riots against muslims cant be denied, at the same time, riot against hindus cant be denied too in India, and riots among muslims too cant be denied in muslim countries. India is only country in the world where muslims have been given special status as minorities. they enjoy being governed by muslim personal laws, government gives them many previlages like reservation for them and subsidy in haj, and many more.
So it may be personal choice of some Indian muslims to become Nationlist, but definetely there is no pressure on them to be so. Its solely their own choice. Just like two years back, there was a lot of noise that muslims have to sing Indian national song, Vande Matram. Some sung the song, some simply stayed away, and some vocally denied to obilige, and exhorted others to follow. Simply like a true secular democracy.
Peace.
ive always been bemused by this..so many muslims who are also Indian have a deep sense of national affiliation to India despite the fact that muslims are widely persecuted in India and are victims to genocide and rape.... many of these Indian muslims are overjoyed with yesterdays Lahore attrocities...its funny cos if you ask Hindu Indians(who consider themselves the 'proper' Indians, becos its 'their' Hindustan, which translates into lands of Hindus)they consider Indian muslims as muslims and not Indian 'nationals'The way Muslims in India are proud of 'India' would be equivalent to Muslims who live in Israel, considering themselves as 'proud Israelites' despite them being them being 2nd class citizens.. which is hardly the case..Im not religious, but doesnt Islam also forbid nationalism? how are these people gonna choose a peice of land over their faith?answers...
the muslims majority are converted from other communities. there forefathers were living here from time immemorial , because of this they have attachment with this land .despite best of the efforts of so called zehadi they never betray their motherland .this is wrong to say they are second class citizen ,they have full powers of a citizen of a democratic country. but when these people go to arab or pakistan you know much ,how shabbily they are treated
Im not religious, but doesnt Islam also forbid nationalism? how are these people gonna choose a peice of land over their faith?answers...
You haven't really witnessed what happens on Indian discussion forums at least. Unless you declare Nation to be much more important to you than religion, you are always considered a traitor.
Even Shahrukh Khan and Azhar Uddin's loyalty to the country is suspect!
You haven't really witnessed what happens on Indian discussion forums at least. Unless you declare Nation to be much more important to you than religion, you are always considered a traitor.
Even Shahrukh Khan and Azhar Uddin's loyalty to the country is suspect!
Same is the case with most Pakistani discussion forum (or for that any forum in any country) .... the number of posts you see where Pakistanis are called traitors is not funny ..... actually it has got nothing to do with being a muslim or a hundu. Anyone who says or does anything which a group thinks is going against THEIR idea of nationalism is called traitors.
So if Wasim Akram talks of training bowlers in India ... he is a traitor...if some Pakistani artist wants to perform or act in India he/she is traitor .... if some Pakistani journalist writes a piece to talk about the jehadis ... he/she is a traitor and the list goes on & on ..... I deliberately left the politicians out as that would be a seperate list in itself .... :D
LOL.. You sure about that? Have you ever put Muslims in a position where they have to choose their religion over their nationality?
I know Indian Muslims aswell, we have them where we live.. And I can tell you one thing, they dont wear Indian flag print burqas.
Indian Muslims came out on the streets of Mumbai after 26/11 to denounce Pakistani terrorism. Here they were being Indians first, rather than siding with Muslim Pakistan.
But if Indian muslims choose nation over religion, you will say they are doing it under pressure. Yours is a circular arguement.
Bottom line is that Indian Muslims are loyal, only so far as it keeps them from being burnt alive.
This is such a wilful lie that you are singlehandedly proving the earlier statement of generalized insult that one Mr.Robert penned a bit earlier here. Come on, there's a limit
I probably know 10 times more Pakistani Muslims than you will ever know of Indian Muslims and quite frankly going by current events, Indian Muslims are more patriotic to India than Pakistanis are to Pakistan. There you go.
so u are saying that true muslim is an idiot. Think before speak.
yes only if he thinks he is true pakistani as well.
Read it again and think before posting.
Re: why are Indian muslims such 'nationalists'?
Whats wrong if Indian muslims are patriotic to India?
it is wrong to divide Indians by religion
it is a little secret which is out
secret is we in India follow our language first, each state has different language, we are united by our language Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu, Kannada, Marathi,Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, English,etc.... then we are united by culture and society, example like a sari is a culture and Indian women wear it across all religion, then by our country then the differences start and we accept and live by our differences, even in hindu religion there are multiple differences and divisions, hindus follow literally hundreds of gods, it could be hard for some people to understand it fully that in some parts of the country there are hindus who regularly visit mosques, i personally have visited mosques, churches where all are openly welcomed and it is same for all other religion, one more thing for those modern religious hardliners who say 'religion comes first and Pakistan comes next' i would like to say in my country there are 85% hindus and about 95% of them would not have even seen the hindu religious book 'The Bhagavad Gita', here we have to thank mahatma Gandhi for he is the one who said states should be formed based on language and Indians should follow there regional language first, today we are speaking English on consensus.
we have a goal to make this country a developed one and nothing stand before that.