Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

He wasn't a very rational person and being a leader of country with a resource which brought in money and a desire to build up a WMD program made him dangerous.

That said the UN should have been listened to. Bush lied to the American people and the world when he presented the case on how dangerous Saddam was and in the process lost the U.S. creditability in the world, lost the U.S. world support it had gained from 9/11, cost the U.S. allies with his "my way only" attitude, failed in securing Afghanistan fully, Took resources away from the war on terror, pushed the cost of the war onto future generations, placed troops in harms way without providing the proper protection, and allowed other threats to bloom because resources are tied up in Iraq. Bush is a total and utter failure who has weaken the U.S. significantly much more than Bin Laden ever did.

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

Ma, we have been through this a thousand times. Please inventory Saddams weapons. Every damn one of them was Russian made. Who financed Saddam? Russians. We tried to break Saddam free of Russias influence for our own purposes, but Saddam was hardly "our boy". Please tell me what Saddam did for us. Fight the iranians?

If you go back over the old pages of Gupshup, you will find thread after thread where I have laid out the real facts of who armed and financed Saddam. Who provided him weapons, and chemicals, and advisors.

About the only things that I could find that the US ever gave Saddam was an "agricultural grant" that amounted to about 2% of Iraqs foreign aid. We provided unarmed helicopters for medical evacuation, and we provided intelligence. The satellite intelligence basically provided locations of Iranian troops that vastly outnumbered Iraqs forces.

So tell me again, using facts, how was he our "best friend".

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

Right. And our ally Musharraf who has nukes is very rational. How about North Korea? They sure as hell aren't rational.

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

Iraq no longer matters by the way. The Iraqis have tired of OBLs boys, and they are taking care of business and murdering the AQ foreigners, who are largely fleeing the country.

But where will they go next?

I'll give you a hint. They are looking for an area with a weak central government, loose borders, and a sympathetic population that will accept extreme Islamofacism.

Can we all figure out what country is next?

All of the Iraqi trained bomb experts? All of the extreme ultra-islamic organizers and recruiters?

If you guessed Pakistan, you are correct!

So, no Saddam, no US to blame, just a lot of things that go boom, and lots of civilians. The people who brought such abject horror to Iraq are now mingling with your relatives, trying to bring down the government of Pakistan.

Don't worry about Iraq.......

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

we'll let pakistan decide who they blame

im sure there will be a few invoices sent out.

will the US/ZION collaboration pay? of course they'll pay

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

iraq only went towards civil war once the americans had control over the entire country

pakistan has a government an army and multiple intelligence agencies. its hand in potential terror organisations alone should signal the possibilities of retribution should pakistan be destabilised

i'd suggest keeping pakistan strong

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed… ]

Sure, there was no civil war before because Saddam would round up 100,000 Kurds and make them disappear, flatten hundreds of villages, and use Helicopter Gunships on Shia Iraqis.

You can avoid civil wars by barbaric acts of violence against those rebelling.

But rather than deal with this reality, you would like to blame Americans.

:rolleyes:

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

Ok, ok, I wanna be part of the superficial discussion. Thank you President Bush for bringing democracy to Iraq.

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

If you guessed Pakistan you would just be OG still trying to be annoying after all these years. The mayor of Kabul it seems will soon be reduced to the lordship of the presidential palace alone. Listen to the rhetoric from the "Allied" countries of NATO and it seems clear that is where the big welcome sign for AQ is hanging next just like the Yanks hung one in Iraq when they decided to "liberate" it (one can argue that the Americans provided a haven to AQ by going into Iraq.)

As for loose borders why don't you talk to the Panty brigade over in Afghanistan. If the border is loose from this side whats keeping them from sealing it on their side? Everytime Pakistan has taken steps such as sending Afghans back, putting curbs on the smuggling of wheat and edibles, the Afghans have shut the border. Why can't they manage to do so at other times as well. That be so much better for Pakistan's security as well.

Weak government? You mean the government whose forces re took Swat and have persuaded militants to call a unilateral cease fire?

Sympathetic population? You have got to be kidding me. I know its you OG but the utter Jessica Simpson-ness of the statement is astounding. You really ought to get off Michael Savage's lap and give him and yourself a break, get some fresh air, read up on the news about the little insects that carry out those attacks, what thier national origin almost always is, and what the populace thinks about them.

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

someone hasnt been watching the news!! i expect better then this from from you og.

its still unclear why saddam was toppled, this initself being proof america is upto no good. however, its no surprise that this fact has flown straight over your head.

btw: yes we know the shias hate him, you told them to! in a concerted worldwide propaganda effort which saddam was unable to control even in his own heavily sanction country

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed… ]

Here is reality: you are the ones who went in trying to fix the place, so what happened? Despite the Abu Gharibs and the operation freedom-tangs, and the “surge” and other countless accusations of abuse and cruelty on the part of your soldiers you couldn’t even manage a little law and order. Now what does that say about all y’all?

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

Oh Muffy,

When one in four Pakistanis approves of OBL, then why bother sealing a border? He is still more popular than half of Americas Presidential candidates. And frankly, the Taliban is a Frankenstein monster created by the ISI, and kept alive 30 years past it's usefulness.

Now, 24 million Iraqis, and 150k US troops. Under what assumption of sanity do you think that numbers like that will control a country? Iraqis have to take control of their own future, and frankly they are doing that. It took a few years for AQI to wear out their welcome by strapping bombs on retarded women, but finally things appear to be turning for the better.

and please, spare us the "y'all", it sounds funny coming out of your mouth. Pretty soon you'll be sayin' "I am fixin' to go back to Karachi and clog my arteries with ghee." Just doesn't work for me Bhai....

According to the poll results, o**nly 24 per cent of Pakistanis approved of Osama when the survey was conducted last month, compared with 46 per cent during a similar survey in August.

Backing for Al Qaeda fell to 18 per cent from 33 per cent.

Support for the Taliban dropped by half to 19 per cent from 38 per cent, the results said.**

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

Why bother sealing the border? Then don't whine about the resurgent Taliban and AQ causing trouble in Afghanistan. As for surveys don't know which survey y'all are looking at (where was it taken? how many respondents were asked to represent a country of 140+ million how were the questions framed? At this stage, Darth Vader would win against W anywhere in the world.) but like I said look at what people are saying about these suicide bombers starting with Today's newspapers going on back, then hold them up to your survey results and then settle down in Mr. Savage's lap (not before) to reflect on all this. What I's sayin to y'alls is: Go back and read my earlier post and if you can respond to what I have said, then we can have a discussion. However with facts that tell you that Taliban are 30+ years old, Bhaijan, aap ka Allah hi Hafiz.

As for Iraq, was that the master plan? Lets have a general carnage for a few years and then they will take care of themselves and hurrah huzzah what a fine day it will be? What assumption of sanity made y'all go there in the first place--and what assumption of sanity is making you stay there thinking that 150K soldiers can oversee 24 Million now?

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed… ]

I quoteth Dawn, the bastion of truth in South Asia.

http://www.dawn.com/2008/02/11/top4.htm

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

According to an IRI poll in today's Dawn, at least 64% of Pakistanis have been thinking that Religious extremism is a serious problem in Pakistan since June so what?

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

It means Pakistanis love bin Laden and want to have babies with him. Duh! How dare y'all brown people question us white people?

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

I hear Afghanistan govt is very strong, it has made great progress in last 5-6 years, the govt has extended beyond presidential house to about a 10-mile area.

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

It is a slow moving process...

"Well there is a lot of progress in Afghanistan. Six years ago television was banned. Today we have 12 private channels 24/7. Then women could not go to work. Today 27 percent of the workforce consists of women. In 2002, only 900 boys were studying in madrassas today five million children, including 1.5 million girls, are studying in school. Women are influencing all aspects of life including social and political. Afghanistan has the most enlightened constitution among Islamic countries. In 2002, only 6 percent of the population has access to basic health facilities now, 65 percent have access. However, these achievements are not matched by other issues like security and stability." -Afghan politician Ali A Jalali

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed… ]

Yes, http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=277408

Re: Whos responsible for the mess in Iraq? [split: Women torture and killed... ]

^
Hey, he didn't say anything about the people being enlightened.