this is a thread about swat, not karachi. talibanisation in karachi is a different topic altogether. we can start a new thread for that if needed.
its a newspaper article whatever it says in the last paragraph is nothing but the writers point of view and whoever wants to believe him. it does not mean its the truth.
agreed the situation became worse because of the last government and then has further worsened because of this gov..... but this is not a 21 st century problem....why did nt a shariah movement take off in buner or dir....they are far more backward overall than swat, far more conservative and more "islamic" .....
[mod]Guys, the topic is Taliban atrocities, specially in Swat, either stick with it or create another thread. Do not drag unrelated parties here, thanks.[/mod]
this is a thread about swat, not karachi. talibanisation in karachi is a different topic altogether. we can start a new thread for that if needed.
I am not the one who brought Karachi in this debate, you did, after I reminded you who runs the present Federal Govt.
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its a newspaper article whatever it says in the last paragraph is nothing but the writers point of view and whoever wants to believe him. it does not mean its the truth.
agreed the situation became worse because of the last government and then has further worsened because of this gov..... but this is not a 21 st century problem....why did nt a shariah movement take off in buner or dir....they are far more backward overall than swat, far more conservative and more "islamic" .....
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Can you read Urdu? The last para is the continuation of the narration of the Mufti whose sad story seems to have incited so many emotions, and not the writers imagination. Just admit it, the Musharraf Govt is solely responsible for this mess.
I dont think they're looking to wipe people out of Swat. They want to brainwash everyone to join their organization, either out of sheer stupid belief, or through bullying and terrorizing. They want their numbers to grow, so they can gain more ground. Tyranny knows no boundaries.
No i cant read urdu very well only sign boards and headlines…
Sorry but you miss out a number of key points:-
when the americans attacked swat sufi mohammed managed to assemble thousands of males from swat for jihad against america…out of all of the pakhtun areas it appears as if the malakand and especially the swat district provided most of the known so-called mujahids …the other pakhtun areas were less bothered…i have never heard of any great figures of people from even the tribal belt going to try and fight america in 2001…now this was an immediate reaction to the american invasion of afghanistan and not something that musharaf nurtured…you give musharaf too much credit, you think he is capable of that much? you over-rate him…
the government could only exploit and manipulate what was their at a later stage …why are nt militants more active in more conservative areas such as buner and dir?
one of the sad things is the people of swat were angry with the jihad sufi mohammed took their sons on only for the leader to flee…many young swatis perished and families were angry…for some unknown reason they allow his son-in-law to start it all over again …as much as you can see blame the leader of the government and the army for which mush was at the time, what on earth does this say about a society who keeps allowing it to happen …?
ps - we are talking about swat where only the PPP-ANP-PMLQ matter…the MQM have not been cast a single vote from swat…they are truly ireelevant to the whole mess there…theyhave karachi to answer for…
Its about time people started looking at this whole thing in Swat with a reasonable and unbiased mindset…its easy to select articles online to make it look like someone is responsible but we all have to remind ourselves that these indeed are just news articles and nothing else. In reality most newswriters twist and manipulate stories for their own benefit and those that dont are handicapped by their own interpretation of events and the fact that they will never be able to bring the full story out because of various limitations ie locations, speaking to all witnesses and points of view
and before i forget 99% of pakhtun nationalists and intellectuals actually hold the whole ofthe pakistani government and establishment to blame as from their point of view Swat had NO problems until 1971. Until 1971 it was a modenr progressive state where mullahs were kept under control - it was a modern progressive dictatorship sorry…and to kill nationalist pakhtun influence the Pakistani establishment has promoted so-called Islamic people…
and its true the establishment in pakistan has always supported the talibanisation in nwfp ..well not even nwfp but the pakhtun belt…the militants have not tried anything special in hazara and chitral…
keeping an open mind is a good thing. trying to prove thats your always right by select pieces as evidence
read the first comment on the top of the page here for what pakhtun nationalists think of hamid mir :-
this is a thread created and commented on the swat situation by pakhtuns belonging to swat and elsewhere - it is the closest one gets to the common mans view point as most appear to have some sort of personal connections with swat …its not all readable as it is in pashtu as well as english but one thing for sure …most posters are fingering the blame at the whole of the pakistani establishment rather than say musharaf alone…
i hope the Mods do not object to me to post another forums thread but its an up-to-date and active tracker of whats going on in swat…it will give readers maybe an unheard or unfamiliar of point of view…i think it is important that when we discuss the issue we lookat it from all the different angles…
After a year of military operations in Swat, the territory controlled by the terrorists has reportedly increased from 25 percent to 75 percent. On Friday, the **army killed 12 Taliban in different parts, but could not prevent the demolition by them of a rest house owned by the ANP’s late leader, Mr Abdul Wali Khan. **The party that rules in Peshawar has been systematically decimated in Swat as its allies walk in fear and no longer criticise the Taliban in public, accusing only the army of being “indiscriminate”.
Swat had voted last year for ANP as a liberal alternative to the now defunct MMA because they wanted their home territory to be made safe against the vandalism of the Taliban. But what they have got is the systematic destruction of the female educational infrastructure in Swat by the Taliban and loss of protection by the state. The terrorists had warned last month that if any girls’ schools opened after January 15, they would be bombed. Consequently, after the expiry of the deadline, none of the 400 plus schools has reopened, causing 80,000 girls to go without education for the foreseeable future. Along with them, 8,000 female teachers will be rendered jobless in state sector and private institutions.
The federal information minister, Ms Sherry Rehman, has responded to the questioning in the National Assembly by saying that the government is not oblivious to the situation and will do something about it. But this isn’t terribly credible. The Taliban have already bombed out of existence 122 girls’ schools in Swat while the army operations go on inside a fast shrinking territory of the writ of the state. The inhabitants no longer believe that the state is capable of protecting them and talk on TV channels freely in favour of the army clearing out of the area and the government negotiating with the terrorists to give them what they want, including a literal ban on the public movement of women. The ANP government began talking peace with the Taliban after coming to power in 2008. It reached an agreement on the enforcement of sharia with the terrorists and even let their founder-cleric out of jail as an earnest of its peaceful intent, but, according to the ANP leaders, the contract was sabotaged by the warlord Baitullah Mehsud who sent in more “foreigners” into Swat to tighten his hold on the territory. Reporters have described youths who behead people in the valley as people who speak differently from the locals and even look like non-Pakistanis.
In Pakistan, the foremost obstacle in pacifying Swat is the national division of opinion. A majority of the people who mould public opinion think that “it is not Pakistan’s war”, and trace it to the cruelties inflicted on the innocent people of Swat by the Musharraf regime. A recent opinion on the plight of Swat was expressed like this: “Swat was totally peaceful until two years ago. Then the government of Pervez Musharraf destroyed its peace. It spilled the blood of innocent people, and now the same innocent people had become greatest oppressors. They are killing each other in the name of Islam. What a great irony that the dictator who loudly proclaimed his enlightened moderation cast Swat into the clutches of religious extremism. And now he is going around the world lecturing on peace”.
But the truth is that Swat saw its trouble first in the mid-1990s with a radical cleric Sufi Muhammad asking for sharia. In 2001, the Sufi joined the Taliban in Afghanistan to fight the Americans. After his arrest, his son-in-law Maulvi Fazlullah unfurled the flag of jihad in Swat and was soon taking orders from the South Waziristan warlord Baitullah Mehsud. Today, Swat lives under the sharia of Fazlullah. Civilian collateral damage has been considerable, and may have caused rebellion in some cases, but most of the “obedience” observable in the valley is because of the fear of beheadings by the terrorists. The measure of lack of success of military operations in Swat can be had from the fact that the terrorists now have an autonomous state of their own, complete with running sharia courts and an FM radio station exhorting the people to accept the new order or die. They have their own network of intelligence and an information secretary that you can ring up and talk to. Every day the people of Swat wake up to find someone or the other either beheaded or hanged on the Green Chowk of Mingora now called Khuni Chowk. Those who could flee Swat have done so; those who have nowhere to go will live under the terrorists. The “state” will soon have to survive on the economy of contraband and kidnappings in the settled areas of the NWFP.
**Pakistan can turn away from the obligation of saving Swat only at the risk of further more dangerous erosion of the state. It is a war that has to be fought and Pakistan cannot afford to lose it. Islamabad must realise that Swat terrorists have their networks in the rest of the country; **and last year, Lahore’s girls’ schools had received threats of closure the same way as in Swat. *
A pretty detailed report about the Swat situation, history and background. This scenario is doomed because the forces that are fighting the Taliban and the people that are suffering in the hands of the Talibans are in agreement with their goals and ideology.
Hamid Mir, met the alleged killers of that Woman,… and now its being revealed that her uncle actually killed her for working and now Taliban.. This definitely is a big twist and eye opener..
^^^ Even if what Hamid Mir has written is true. The statement of the guy obviously feaful of his life in custody of these murderous animals is not credible. He would say anything to save his neck, literally. Question is if it was the woman’s uncle that killed her in the area under Taliban Shariat control, why did they not punish this uncle according to Shariat?
The only thing that could be taken from Hamid Mir’s article is that public support is important even for these animals. They are in Swat and enforcing there Shariat there because there is enough public support for them there. This picture shows they have street support.
^^ it is habit of Indians to twist every news and column and picture to malign Pakistan and its culture who totally oppose this extremism .You have not putUrdu Caption which was below this picture that they are protesting against the colateral damage being done to them in cross fire of Army and Terrorists and they are losing thier lives and homes in that.They want peace in Swat thats all .Noone is protesting in support of this barbarianism.
Even a child of 6 can see such 3rd rated story cooked up by these murderers. Hamid Mir clearly saying that
The BIL of that woman was intensly terrified (because he was brought with threat of being murdered like that woman
Uncle why not killed that woman for 3 years when she was doing job ??
When Hamid Mir looked at Abdullah ( who invited Hamid Mir) instead of looking at him he statred checking his mobile messages ( as falsehood was written on his face and Hamid Mir spent 20 years in Journalism and met all great personalities could easily detect this childish flip flops )
4.When Hamid Mir tried to say more to him , Abdullah ordered to take this man back to Swat
His confession of blowing schools, murdering people in reponse of Lal Mosque action which was not Pakistani people fault but only a Dictator used it as a tool to disperse the Lawyers Movement which was at peak at this time
Kindly do not use that term indiscriminately. That, in a way implicates us all for the crimes of some. There is nothing wrong with Islamism, if done with the articulate understanding and proper knowledge that the religion requires. The Mufti in the above article was, by your definition (I think!), was an Islamist as well. Let's not make it synonymous to a fashion statement. Moreover, it's not only the flawed understanding of Islam that contributes to such reckless attitudes, but also the presence of real pressures of Zionist agenda and American Imperialism. They have blood on their hands as well, and the cause and effect relationship between terrorism and Imperialism, is a very debatable issue.
LOL. I laugh when people on this board accuse me of being Indian/Qadiani etc.
If you had read the news with this picture, the demonstartion was against the army operation and in demand of enforcing Sharia. The rally was not against the Taliban and its demands were just what the Taliban are demanding. BTW, there was another rally today. The people in these rallies seem to have no problem with TTP demands, methods and dirty deeds.
