Whore of Swat

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
41

Does this guy actually have any evidence to show that it was Musharaf who sent them there?

Please provide better evidence that newspaper articles- I am not sure how far a newspaper article by a journalist would go in a court?

In early 2007 yes there was total peace in Swat and now out of all the areas its the worst affected - even waziristan and bajaur have improved and these are tribal areas bordering afghanistan.

Ok you have blamed Musharaf, you can trial him, you can execute him but theproblems in Swat are still going to be there.

More and more people from Swat have become fed up of the incompetent government and the army operation - maybe the only solution now woul dbe to give Swat back to its people and let them have independence? According to Pakhtun nationalists that would be the solution. They dont blame Musharaf - they blame pakisatn for the downfall of Swat which has taken place since 1970.

How much do you know of Swat before 1970?

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You are forgetting, the story on which you and antiburqa are shedding crocodile tears is being narrated from Mufti. How do you know this lady was even killed, if you are questioning him, might as well question other things too?

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Please provide better evidence that newspaper articles- I am not sure how far a newspaper article by a journalist would go in a court?

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This isnt a court document. Sorry to burst your bubble. Mufti's interview is conducted by a very reputed journalist.

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In early 2007 yes there was total peace in Swat and now out of all the areas its the worst affected - even waziristan and bajaur have improved and these are tribal areas bordering afghanistan.

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So who was responsible for making Swat what it is in 2006, 2007? Nawaz Sharif?

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Ok you have blamed Musharaf, you can trial him, you can execute him but theproblems in Swat are still going to be there.

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No but I can always sling some mud at his croonies, who support him based on their blind political/ethnic affiliations.

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More and more people from Swat have become fed up of the incompetent government and the army operation - maybe the only solution now woul dbe to give Swat back to its people and let them have independence? According to Pakhtun nationalists that would be the solution. They dont blame Musharaf - they blame pakisatn for the downfall of Swat which has taken place since 1970.

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Like I said, this mess was orchestrated, nurtured and created by that specific Govt. Other parts of the country feel neglected to post 1971, but the Govt never orchestrated it and elevated the mess into a civil war like situation.

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How much do you know of Swat before 1970?
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Probably more than you, but I am not a pretentious idiot who'd come out here using that as a leverage to encapsulate facts.

Learn to admit that your favorite dictator created this mess.

p.s. as a request, can you please type short posts, you repeat the same thing over and over again, which gets cumbersome to read.

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The previous Govt started this mess to bring in some dollar kheraat, and nurtured it to an extent that it became a full scale problem. When there were talks of this becoming a serious issue, Musharraf and Shauky were enjoying their kulfiz and were busy hounding the lawyers, civil society members, politicians and the media.

Malala failed, Extremism apologists won ... and my signature is removed
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A well-reputed journalist? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Even well-reputed journalists have their own biases. Has this journalist ever been to swat? What are his political affiliations?

Have you ever personally studied journalism or Media Studies?

My favourite dictator HAHAHAHAH - he is long gone LOL. I guess we know each other personally :P

Everyone has political affiliations and view points Spock Sahib but some people are broader and more holistic in their approach while others thrive by having a single hate figure.

Ok fair enough musharaf is to blame for what happened to Swat in 2007 and early part of 2008. I dont have have a problem if he is trialled - I just hope the vast majority of his estate ends up with the poor and not some other rich powerful figure.

But then for most of 2008 Mushy has been powerless. Swat wa snot even that bad until the summer - it has got much worse over the last 6 months. You really go and read some Swati and Pakhtun websites to get a more realistic picture of the goings on there rather than living life through a journalist who blames musharaf.

The army made significant adavnces in Swat and it get the militants a relatively good beating and pushed them back at the end of 2007. But the last 6 months have been an absolute disaster - militants are more or less setting up check-points next to the army.

We have a change of government - they simply won by being anti-Musharaf. yet since they have come into power Swat has deteriorated to the lowest ebb.

I dont care if Musharaf is beheaded over this issue, but then again should the same punishment apply to Asfandyar Wali Khan, Zardari, Gen Kayani?

Some people blame Musharaf for the mess? Some people blame the Indians or Americans or directly the Militants alone? Whose side do you believe? Theres plenty of "well-reputed" journalists writing allwith different view-points......then why just believe the one?

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Thejoke, its simple, you hate hamid mir because hes against musharraf. Thats where it all begins and ends for you.

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Even well-reputed journalists have their own biases. Has this journalist ever been to swat? What are his political affiliations?

Have you ever personally studied journalism or Media Studies?

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First you asked me the same thing, now you are asking the same for the journalist. I'll give you the same answer, i) it doesnt matter ii) i am sure he has more knowlegdge than you iii) hes not a pretentious idiot who'd use gloating to add to his journalistic repute.

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My favourite dictator HAHAHAHAH - he is long gone LOL. I guess we know each other personally :P

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dictators go, but their chamchas still stick around, im sure you'll be able to find plenty of zia lovers even after so long.

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Everyone has political affiliations and view points Spock Sahib but some people are broader and more holistic in their approach while others thrive by having a single hate figure.

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And whats their excuse for NOT blaming the person behind this mess, if they are so open minded and broader.

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Ok fair enough musharaf is to blame for what happened to Swat in 2007 and early part of 2008. I dont have have a problem if he is trialled - I just hope the vast majority of his estate ends up with the poor and not some other rich powerful figure.

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Its a big mess, will take a LONG time to fix, not that i have any faith in zardari.

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But then for most of 2008 Mushy has been powerless. Swat wa snot even that bad until the summer - it has got much worse over the last 6 months. You really go and read some Swati and Pakhtun websites to get a more realistic picture of the goings on there rather than living life through a journalist who blames musharaf.

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Ever heard the phrase tiger got out of the cage? Mush let it out, doesnt matter if he was in control later or not.

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The army made significant adavnces in Swat and it get the militants a relatively good beating and pushed them back at the end of 2007. But the last 6 months have been an absolute disaster - militants are more or less setting up check-points next to the army.

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Prove the first part.

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We have a change of government - they simply won by being anti-Musharaf. yet since they have come into power Swat has deteriorated to the lowest ebb.

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Unlike Musharraf's regime, the present govt has no control over the military. Now if you think just like the movie these 300 or so warriors in the parliament can go and fight the ttp, yo uare mistaken.

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I dont care if Musharaf is beheaded over this issue, but then again should the same punishment apply to Asfandyar Wali Khan, Zardari, Gen Kayani?

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Those guys should be punished for what they did, and they werent the masterminds behind the swat mess.

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Some people blame Musharaf for the mess? Some people blame the Indians or Americans or directly the Militants alone? Whose side do you believe? Theres plenty of "well-reputed" journalists writing allwith different view-points......then why just believe the one?
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I blame Musharraf. Hope that answers your query.

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I really have better things to do than to read what every journalist has written about Musharf. im not familiar with his writings and yes a journalist is a journalist. I have a lifeoutside GS and thats where it begins and ends for me. Journalists dont necessarily always right facts - they just right points of views. From my guess Hamid Mir is not a Pashtun name - its usually a chitrali, kashmiri or baloch name....do youhave a biodata of hamid mir...i would love to read about him and some his articles....

rather than throw accusations of a personal nature, which is a very DESI thing to do, why dont you study journalism and the media? someone disagrees with you - your a mush supporter LOL.

My simple advice to you is just because you get an anti-msh article it does not make it the truth. The guy is done and dusted with politics for better or for worse.

Oh yes Ihave noticed that about pakistani politics - there are plenty of chamchas and we are allchamcha to some one, and you know what? None of them are angels!

LOL what makes you think mush was the mastermind? Have you ever personally met mush and spoke to him about it?
The only fault he has is that he was the elader when it all started. From 1999-mid 2007 there were no problems btw. When Mush left swat became worse.

your posts are becoming as long as mine sPock bhaijan LOL

malala k malal main doobay log !
47

Re: Whore of Swat

Ok, I read the translation, and this is my opinion:

I have said time and again, that civilians coming in the line of fire is only going to make things worse - because who joins terrorists? People who have had family and friends die at the hands of bombs going off to target terrorists.

This is how terrorists operate. They work in civilian neighborhoods - they hide their weapons in mosques - they plan and network out of your basements and your apartment buildings. They don't separate themselves from civilians. So when things come under fire, innocent life is lost as well. Which allows the terrorist network to recruit more (i.e. the Pakistani government dropped a bomb on your home and you lost your family, now will you believe us and join us?), and grow stronger.

We've been seeing this phenomenon in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine. You're seeing it in Swat as well.

So, is this, in the end, Musharraf's fault? If you look back to how events unfolded, innocent civilians were told to evacuate the valley. Many people did get out. Many chose not to leave, and one cannot blame them. Why should you have to leave your home. The inevitable consequence was that their homes came under fire, prompting many of them to subsequently join terrorist networks as revenge against the government. The fact that many of these people didn't understand Islam to begin with, didn't understand simple things like its not ok to mistreat women, and its not ok to force Islam on anyone by sword, gave even more prowess to the militants to go around and recruit. People do crazy things out of anger, and joining terrorist organizations seems to be a popular option.

I feel very bad for this widow. I feel anger towards the woman who knocked on her door and instead of standing up for her, basically was a mouthpiece for the Taliban policy. I feel lots of anger, but you do not see me joining a terrorist organization to compensate for it, do you?

Therefore, we cannot feel pity for Pakistanis who have joined these militants, even if it was government weaponry falling on their homes that forced them into those groups to begin with. These people had a choice. They could recognize that the government was causing all this turmoil. Or they could have recognized that it was the Taliban's untoward ways of enforcing Islam that was causing this turmoil. They could have, instead of joining the Taliban, left the valley with as many innocents as they could get, in order to prevent further loss of life. They could have heeded the government warnings to leave town, because weapons would target the Taliban. They could have done more to make sure the Taliban didn't enter their villages.

Everyone has contributed to this problem - including the government who was too lax about their borders when the US went into Afghanistan (I mean its common sense that these idiotic maulvis would run into Pakistan in response), the "wise" village elders in NWFP who gave shelter to these friggin Taliban morons, the "enthusiastic" uneducated jaahil youth who have joined the Taliban movement, and all the villagers who are supporting it. And we saw that with the widow's neighbor who came to warn her of the consequences of not leaving her job.

Terrible. This situation is dismal. My fear is that its going to spread and before you even know it, Islamabad, Peshawar, Lahore, and Karachi is going to become the same environment.

Here's what I want to ask: If a government bomb were to fall on the home of the woman who was the mouthpiece for the Taliban policy, what would your response be?

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Lucky for GS, and Pakistanis, you have not crossed over to the terrorist world. But some have and some will.

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Re: Whore of Swat

May be door knocking woman had also been killed by Talibans if she would have stood for the widow :(

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Re: Whore of Swat

^ So what would you have done if you were the door knocking woman?

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Re: Whore of Swat

PCG, these terrorists were installed, and nurtured by the senile dictator Musharraf, its his fault.

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Yeap. It is always someone else's fault. Islamists can never be wrong.

It is like a rapist telling, not his fault. He was born to a single parent. It is his mum or dad's fault.

So when will the adults take responsibility of THEIR OWN actions?

Answer: Never in Jihadi world.

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I think you don't know who are the Beduins, you don't know their beautiful values and their way of life !

Please, be careful of your words !

54

Just like the daddy of these 'islamists' roams around with his scotch bottle and his little paid minions cant dare say anything against him.

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Where is the blame part for govts of 1990s when Benazir started supporting Taliban, nurtured them, Nawaz Sharif joined them in bed, provided money, ammunition?

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Dear PCG I am not so brave to stand against those who openly cut people throats and kill innocent women after declaring her whore. :( I mean,she could think about her 3 children. But agin its a very sad and tragic incident :(

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Well, now, gentlemen, there you have it.

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Do you know your Pakistani history?

Read up on the Cold War and the part that the Pakistani government played in driving the soviets out of Russia and the role of the "Mujahideen".

The then mujahideen are now the masterminds behind the terrorist movements on the subcontinent.

Ex. OBL was on CIA's and ISI's payroll during the coldwar - he's behind Al Qaeda.

Go and blame every ruler since Zia for this mess. You can also refer to Zia's rule as a leader and his role in implementing "sharia" into a national system - which was nothing more than an excuse for a state-controlled system in which free speech and free thought were impinged on to fuel the Mujahideen movement.

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That's the problem PCG. Blaming Musharraf good. Blaming Zia not good. And every leader between Zia and Musharraf was just an angel.

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Re: Whore of Swat

Both of you have valid points. You should blame the current jihadis for these acts, and you should also blame their protectors and those who nurtured them in years past.

Trust me, in this bad situation, there is no shortage of blame to spread around.

Question is, going forward, what is the solution? We can't drive a car if we keep looking at the rear-view mirror, now can we? :)

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