I am not talking about "relationship" per se, rather the ideology or the concept.
not either ideology, Hussain(ra) stood for principles ,sacrificed himself and his family members to show to the world till last day what is Haq and what is Batil.
Did Hussain(ra) ever killed any innocent women or cut body parts of even of his opponents !
This is what I am saying too, these militants think too highly of themselves.
Re: Whore of Swat
Can someone translate the article/story into English, so the rest of us can participate? Thanks.
Re: Whore of Swat
^rest of us have already participated.
Since when was a news article the final proof? Do you really believe a newspaper writer has every little bit of knowledge of what goes on in whatever they write about?
Your right things dont spout out of nowhere. These problems were long before Muisharaf.
Youknow some people will glady even blame Jinnah for this problem as he fought for Pakistan.
Some even blame the spread of islam. Where do we stop pointing the finger?
When do we stop blaming people for our own individual mistakes?
^ You blame Allah, I blame whoever I want. Read some of the articles Zakk posted a few years ago, to see who is responsible for creating these people. Things just dont sprout out of no where. And chanda, I am not the one blaming Musharraf, I just said read the last part of the article, the mufti who the article narrates is, I suppose you will go and ask the grieving mufti to blame Allah.
No they cant because someone always has to be to blame! No one wants to blame the actual criminal.
This is one of the main reasons why Pakistan never moves forward. We just love to blame someone else. No one actually comes up with a solution. Its just far easier to blame someone else. But the problem is still there.
If we blame Musharaf for what happened while he was in power then we should also blame the ANP-PPP coalition which has not done a single thing to ease the problems since.
You miss one key fact - the fact that these people ended up in Swat obviously with some help from the locals. Then do we blame the locals?
The blame game never ends and goes back to history. The only path that leads to a brighter future is a solution - the government, army, security forces, locals....the solution appears difficult to implement.
Are we ever going to move beyond 'who is responsible for this mess'? I don't think problems will get solved by identified this way, instead of finding out what can be done now. Whats the point of repeating the same thing over and over?
Can someone translate the article/story into English, so the rest of us can participate? Thanks.
PCG here is the translation. it was really difficult to read this over and over in an effort to convey the meaning of this essay. I cried while translating this horrible story. Still I wanted people to read this. They ought to know what is going on in swat.
Note that it is not "transliteration" so parts of this essay were skipped or modified to convey the core of this essay. Pardon me if I mistranslated any part.
**
A widow’s screams, a widow’s tears
from Swat
**
By Hamid Mir
*
Notes – Mufti sahib was a teacher in a Swat madrassah and he narrated this story about cold blooded murder of a widow in Swat. Why was she killed? Here is the story of Mufti sahib as written by Hamid Mir (A Pakistani TV show host).
*
This story is not being narrated merely to mourn the murder of an honest hardworking widow. Instead this story’s purpose is to mourn the apathy of the whole Pakistani nation.
Mufti sahib cried his heart out before he could utter even a single word. Seeing an elderly man cry and shed tears just shook me to the core. His tears and cries drained the life out me and I couldn’t muster enough strength to get up and embrace him, to console him, to tell him how sorry I am, and how helpless I feel right now. All I could do was to publish this story in the hopes that Pakistanis realize the monsters, the Islamist terrorists.
Mufti sahib continued sobbing for a long time before he could regain his composure. He lifted his cyring face and said I don’t know what to do and where to go and whom to ask for justice. I beg for justice not for this hard working widow, but I am begging for mercy for the thousands upon thousands of voiceless girls and women under the oppression of Islamists. The girls and women whose screams for help are going unheard, are falling on deaf ears.
So who is this Mufti sahib? The aging man sobbing and crying in front of me? Well! Mufti Sahib belongs to Swat. He was teaching in a Swat Islamic school for the last 18 years. Few days ago a lady visited him crying for help. She was from a town near Swat. Few years ago her husband died in an accident leaving her alone, leaving her to support her family of three little kids.
At the time of her husband’s death, she had passed the exams and acquired the F.A. certification (12 grades’ education). So she started teaching in a local private school during the day and during the nights worked on getting the degree for Bachelors in Education (B. Ed). For the last year or so, she was able to hold on to her teaching job in Mangora city even though her own city of Swat suffered from school closures and shut downs due to Islamists’ lawlessness.
Few days ago she came home in the evening back to Swat. She was visited by a neighbor woman who brought a warning that **“Islamic Sharia is now in effect, every woman will be confined to her home, so you cannot leave the house anymore. You must quit your job”. **The widow was shocked at this brazen act, and still tried to reason with the neighbor woman. She tried to explain that I have three kids to feed. My kids accompany me every day during my commute to my job in Mangora city. If I quit work, my kids will die of hunger. The neighbor woman retorted that you don’t need to work, the neighborhood will collect money and arrange food for you.
The widow’s self respect couldn’t bear the thought of her becoming dependent on the neighbors' handouts. She escaped Islamic Sharia by abondning her home in Swat. She moved in with her sister in Mangora. This was the only way she could avoid the Islamic Sharia of Swat. Her commute was much smaller now and she continued teaching at the school and continued supporting her family.
The bearers of Islamic justice saw this as a clear act of defiance by a lowly widow. Her action truly angered the Sharia enforcers of Swat. They sent the terrorists to her place of employment, the school. The terrorists started threatening and pressuring the school principle to fire her from her job.
The situation got worse as the days went by. Then someone suggested that she should approach the Mufti sahib (the religious teacher who narrated this story). Why? Because some of the Islamist terrorists happened to be ex-students of Mufti sahib. She hoped that Mufti sahib could use his influence and get some reprieve for the widow.
Mufti sahib listened to her and realized her dilemma. He contacted one of his ex-students now-turned a terrorist. This ex-student had joined terrorists after his brother died during an army operation launched to clean up the terrorists.
On the insistence of his ex-teacher, this terrorist talked to the rest of his Islamist gang, but they all refused. Not only they refused permission for this widow to continue teaching. They also threatened Mufti sahib. When Mufti sahib tried to convince the gang by describing them the examples of women’s active role in the society of the Messenger pbuh’s time, the Islamists got furious. They gave a notice to Mufti sahib that he must leave Swat in two days otherwise he would be killed.
And then three days later the hapless widow was tried in Islamic Sharia court for “adultery” and killed on the spot. What was her crime? She was widow and she dared to work as a teacher to support her family of young kids.
Re: Whore of Swat
^ LOL! How conveniently you left out the 'last' part where the Mufti talks about how this situation was caused and whose to be blamed LOL! Dont worry I'll have it translated here for sure.
Since when was a news article the final proof? Do you really believe a newspaper writer has every little bit of knowledge of what goes on in whatever they write about?
Your right things dont spout out of nowhere. These problems were long before Muisharaf.
Youknow some people will glady even blame Jinnah for this problem as he fought for Pakistan. Some even blame the spread of islam. Where do we stop pointing the finger?
When do we stop blaming people for our own individual mistakes?
No they were not, Swat was just fine before that retard created this mess. Chamchagiri ki bhi had hoti hai yar, read what this mufti had to say, since his interview/story is being narrated.
^ LOL! How conveniently you left out the 'last' part where the Mufti talks about how this situation was caused and whose to be blamed LOL! Dont worry I'll have it translated here for sure.
Sure it was "translation" and not "transliteration". It was clearly mentioned that the purpose was to convey the main thrust of the essay.
if you think blaming musharraf will bring back the murdered mother back to the doubly orphaned kids, then be my guest.
And no LOL please. It is truly a horrendous example of Islamic Sharia taliban style.
Re: Whore of Swat
musharraf is solely resposible along with his army.* I dont support the ANP* actually I despise thier politics, but how come only their people are being targeted by the terrorist? JUI-Fazl was at the healm when this operation started. Fazl and his group are never targeted and thats because he is the armys right hand man. Horror stories by ANP activist are told, how they are targeted in front of the Army but all they do is watch.
Re: Whore of Swat
reminds me of this quote
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out
Swat has always had a poverty problem and prior to integration into Pakistan it had an autocratic ruler.
One of the reasons why Talibanisation may have some support in Swat is because of the moral degeneration (according to the eyes of the mullah class) which has occured thanks to tourism in swat. Even though tourism is a huge earner for Swat, theres quite a few people out there who have not liked the affect it was having.
Have you forgotten how there were calls for Shariah law in Swat when another "retard" ie the in famous Mr Nawaz Sharif was in power? Or is that Musharafs fault too?
By the way according to Swati and pakhtun nationalists - Musharaf is a small cog in the huge machine of problems in North-Western pakistan. Swati and Pakhtun nationalists (by nationalists i dont mean provincialists although some do have similar views on these issues) hold Pakistan as a whole for the problems in Swat. YES! They blame and abuse everyone from Musharaf, Sharif, Bhutto, Zia-ul-haq, ZAB, Jinnah, Allama iqbal and so on. They have a softer spot for Benazir as she had or showed an anti-army stance.
So Data - whose point of view should you believe?
PS pakhtun and swati nationalists have actual links to the area if not have lived there. So should we listen to them and tear apart pakistan because they have much more experience/evidence of the problems there? What I mean to say is they have much more knowledge and experience than some article writer on whats going on there.
No they were not, Swat was just fine before that retard created this mess. Chamchagiri ki bhi had hoti hai yar, read what this mufti had to say, since his interview/story is being narrated.
Its a good question that why the ANP are targeted and not the PPP too?
Its quite a pathetic and low thing if the army is really watching people targeted in that cruel way regardless of their political affiliation. I am not sure if I totally believe that the army would watch as its quite a dirty accusation although realistically not impossible. It could just be rumour-mongering to make the army look bad - the ANP have a very anti army streak at times although they have made deals with them/ISI. Although, if such a thing is true, it makes me question their role asthe protectors of the country.
I can understand army guys despising ANP for their previous poltical stances but then again it does not justify them watching whats happening.
Musharaf left COAS at the end of 2007 and as of March/April 2008 we got a new Government and by August 2008 Mush was pushed out of the Presidency. The new government promised change so it should now deliver. If not then the should accept they are just as responsible for the mess. Mushy is long gone and under his time Swat was in much better state. Since he has left Swat has deteriorated, although Waziristan, Bajaur have improved.
musharraf is solely resposible along with his army.* I dont support the ANP* actually I despise thier politics, but how come only their people are being targeted by the terrorist? JUI-Fazl was at the healm when this operation started. Fazl and his group are never targeted and thats because he is the armys right hand man. Horror stories by ANP activist are told, how they are targeted in front of the Army but all they do is watch.
Can someone translate the article/story into English, so the rest of us can participate? Thanks.
Ooooops , i know you enjoy Urdu dramas on Pakistani channels but you cannot read Urdu :(
Burqaposh has given the translation ,hope you will get the main theme.In the last paragraph, Maulvi Sahab says that 2 years back,everything was right in Swat but Musharraf spreaded all this hatred and attcked innocents and now these innocents have become monsters and taking revenge without considering anu laws and rules :(
Sure it was "translation" and not "transliteration". It was clearly mentioned that the purpose was to convey the main thrust of the essay.
if you think blaming musharraf will bring back the murdered mother back to the doubly orphaned kids, then be my guest.
And no LOL please. It is truly a horrendous example of Islamic Sharia taliban style.
the LOL was for your hidden trolling agenda, not for this article. So we shouldnt blame Musharraf but blaming the guy who did this will bring that murdered mother back then? I am sorry but this blind western brown nosing is making no sense now. If you want to translate it for others, dont hide stuff that exposes the fallacies in your weak and biased arguments.
Swat has always had a poverty problem and prior to integration into Pakistan it had an autocratic ruler.
One of the reasons why Talibanisation may have some support in Swat is because of the moral degeneration (according to the eyes of the mullah class) which has occured thanks to tourism in swat. Even though tourism is a huge earner for Swat, theres quite a few people out there who have not liked the affect it was having.
Have you forgotten how there were calls for Shariah law in Swat when another "retard" ie the in famous Mr Nawaz Sharif was in power? Or is that Musharafs fault too?
By the way according to Swati and pakhtun nationalists - Musharaf is a small cog in the huge machine of problems in North-Western pakistan. Swati and Pakhtun nationalists (by nationalists i dont mean provincialists although some do have similar views on these issues) hold Pakistan as a whole for the problems in Swat. YES! They blame and abuse everyone from Musharaf, Sharif, Bhutto, Zia-ul-haq, ZAB, Jinnah, Allama iqbal and so on. They have a softer spot for Benazir as she had or showed an anti-army stance.
So Data - whose point of view should you believe?
PS pakhtun and swati nationalists have actual links to the area if not have lived there. So should we listen to them and tear apart pakistan because they have much more experience/evidence of the problems there? What I mean to say is they have much more knowledge and experience than some article writer on whats going on there.
Itni lambi post? In short, there were similar problems all over the country, but only Swat is making headlines, because the Army and their Jihadi Kingpin General Musharraf used this as a playground to get the funding in. Again read the last part of the article and also, why were you cheering on that General when he was playing this game in Swat? Its simple, you guys first need to admit that your favourite leader, based on ethnicities, personal anecdotes (and in some cases looks) was responsible. Only then will we able to identify and solve such problems.
Re: Whore of Swat
So PCG, here is the part Burqa and all the Mush sympathizers/apologists do not want you to read, so it was excluded from their magnificent translations:
According to the Mufti, there was total peace two years ago in Swat. Pervez Musharraf's Government, in order to get some dollars from the US created this chaotic condition in Swat and initiated this bloodshed. The innocents were killed mercilessly and now these innocents left became the most merciless killers. Isnt it ironic that this 'enlightened moderation' chanting dictator sent the people of Swat into the dark ages of extremism and was chanting slogans about the war against terror around the world. Mufti also says that the war in Swat is against the write of the Govt and the locals, but there is no difference between the two parties when it comes to being merciless, unreasonable.
Heart-rending story
I don't know when will the government and military get serious about eliminating this Taliban menace. Random killing of a few militants which has been this and previous government's policy has not proven to be successful so far. Because all it does is result in more painful reprisals in the form of bomb blasts and suicide bombings later.
We need to declare war on these people; set up camps and move all the innocents out of the area first and then move in with real determination to capture or kill each and everyone of these scum bags. Just 4 or 5,000 of these miscreants (I don't believe there is more of them) in Swat cannot be allowed to hold the entire country to ransom. This farce must end now
Theres little problems all over the country like this and it does not matter what is making the headlines - the media is just sensationalising events on one hand and ignoring others on another.
LOL
my favourite leader whoever that is has 1 ethnicity...thats Pakistani...when theres a worthy enough leader im sure people wont care if he is seraiki punjabi potohari pashtun chitrali hindko baluchi brahui sindhi kachi gujurati mekrani urdu speaking persian etc.....
So back in the 1990's was Musharaf responsible for that too Spock bhai?
Itni lambi post? In short, there were similar problems all over the country, but only Swat is making headlines, because the Army and their Jihadi Kingpin General Musharraf used this as a playground to get the funding in. Again read the last part of the article and also, why were you cheering on that General when he was playing this game in Swat? Its simple, you guys first need to admit that your favourite leader, based on ethnicities, personal anecdotes (and in some cases looks) was responsible. Only then will we able to identify and solve such problems.