Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan, yet.
Source: South Asia Investor Review:
Pakistan Poverty Down to 17% in 2007-2008
As far as salary goes … official minimum salary increased from around Rs 1200 (~ $20 @ open market rate) in 1999 to Rs 5000 (near there) or ~ $90 (open market rate) in 2008.
Waisay: Even though I believe you were unfortunate as your salary did not jump as much as others … for instance SC Judges salary increased from ~ Rs35,000 in 1999 to ~Rs140,000 in 2008 … still … Rs 40000 during Musharraf last days was not $400 but it was ~ $650.
Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan, yet.
keeping aside these statistics ask the people on ground who have gone through these times, poverty has increased manifolds during recent time...
There were multiple crises during Musharraf's time especially sugar crises, no price management mechanism (the prices of every day things used to go up essentially every day), the fake real estate/stock exchange bubbles (in which a few big players manipulated the market basically making it impossible for middle class people to buy property). The current electricity crises was also cultivated during Musharraf's time, as he had taken the circular debt to 300 Billion Rupees.
On the ground the salaries increased (no doubt) but inflation increased more than the increase in salaries hence in reality decreasing the salaries in dollar terms.
Having said that, the situation has further deteriorated during PPP's current tenure.
Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan, yet.
You are right that poverty has increased in big way during recent years … actually after 2008. But then it is revenge of democracy something people should love.
As for average price increases during Musharraf period, it was one of the lowest ever. State Bank use to give figures but it seems due to high inflation rate during last 3 years they do not like to show ‘revenge of democracy’ so they have stopped showing inflation going back many years on their site. Anyhow, I am giving a site where you can find Pakistan inflation rate since 1980 (early Zia time). You can see very low inflation rate during Musharraf era … that is:
Now compare this rate with pre-Musharraf period and you will find only once since 1980 Pakistan inflation was below 4.6 percent, that was in 1986 when inflation was 3.5 percent, Rest of years between 1980 to 1999 inflation was always higher than 4.6 percent. So you can accuse Musharraf period for anything but certainly not for Price hike. Here is complete data:
[TABLE=“width: 0”]
Year Inflation, average consumer prices
1980
11.927
1981
11.949
1982
5.862
1983
6.446
1984
6.056
1985
5.564
1986
3.467
1987
4.692
1988
8.835
1989
7.882
1990
9.051
1991
12.628
1992
4.851
1993
9.825
1994
11.272
1995
13.022
1996
10.789
1997
11.803
1998
7.812
1999
5.736
2000
3.584
2001
4.41
2002
2.504
2003
3.102
2004
4.568
2005
9.276
2006
7.921
2007
7.771
2008
11.998
2009
20.775
2010
11.73
As for other things you mentioned:
Real estate may rise artificially known as property bubble but that always happen when economy is booming and economical confidence in country is high. As for stock exchange, there is no such thing as fake long term (more than several weeks) stock exchange rise (who ever says that stock market was manipulated in big way, is fooling the nation or do not know how stock exchange works). No investor or world power can make stock exchange stable or rise for more than several weeks (not even American government can do that to NYSE … actually to make Stock market rise for even a day is almost impossible for investors). Similarly no world power can keep ‘exchange rate’ under control when currency is floating in open market (many countries tried but all failed).
As for electricity crises in Pakistan, that is incompetency of present democracy (maybe they want to take revenge from people who deserve every bit of revenge). You should know that there is enough electricity production capability in the country to fulfil demand but government priority with money is different. You are talking about circular debt of Rs300 billion, but you are forgetting that present government has taken over $20 billion (external debt) plus over Rs 2000 billion (domestic debt) in last 3 years and that means increase in interest payment for this huge debt comes to more than Rs 500 billion a year (extra over what Pakistan was paying every year during Musharraf rule). Now think that present government who increased total Pakistan debt by ~Rs 4000 billion in 3 years that along with Rs devaluation has created extra burden of Rs500 billion in interest alone, what problem Rs 300 billion circular debt can cause? Actually, this Rs300 billion circular debt is exaggerated figure, as many debt in this circular debt is overlapping debt. Probably less than Rs100 billion could clear all circular debts.
On the other hand … Just imagine what economical state Musharraf inherited in 1999 and how he sorted out the economy:
In 1999 Pakistan external debt was $40 billion and domestic debt was ~Rs 1700 billion … and to pay those debt … GDP was ~$62 billion, export was $7.6 billion, federal tax collection was Rs308 billion and liquid reserve (reserve minus gold) was ~ $200 million, stock market (KSE) capitalisation ~$5 billion.
Further … Pakistan economical situation in 1999 was so precarious that Pakistan defaulted on external debt interest payment in late 1998 and again in early 1999. In other words, Pakistan became a defaulter country in 1998 and 1999, that was first country in Muslim world and first country in Asia (this can be checked on list of defaulter countries). Actually, even now no Muslim country or Asian country to my knowledge has defaulted, other than Pakistan (gift of shame to Pakistan from Nawaz Shareef).
In 2008, Pakistan external debt was ~ $45 billion and domestic debt was ~ Rs 2400 billion … and to pay those debt … GDP was ~$180 billion, export was ~$18 billion, federal tax collection was ~Rs1000 billion, liquid reserve (reserve minus gold) was ~$13 billion ($13000 million), stock market (KSE) capitalisation ~$60 billion. (2008 open market rate of Rs60 per dollar was almost same as what it was in 1999).
Now, what would you like to say about that other than ‘democracy is big revenge’ where people vote to buy mismanagement, nepotism, corruption, unemployment, inflation, misery, and poverty … but then people should learn to stay happy with all this as in return they get democracy with vengeance.
Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan?
I agree with you that the situation has exasperated under the present regime, the situation of PIA, PSO, Railways is in front of everyone. The inflation is record high and joblessness has increased! The energy crisis has broken the back of the industries, farmers and small businessmen. And sadly there is no sense of direction as well. Everyone is busy in filling up their pockets, awam are left to look after themselves.
Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan?
^^^
Brother you are right ... but then that is what people love and vote for, so what can one say other then: People get what they deserve.
Anyhow, I am sorry. I was searching internet and found that Pakistan is not ‘only’ Muslim or Asian country that defaulted but there are few more Muslim and Asian countries who defaulted. So, I have to take my words back (correct myself). I was thinking to correct/edit my above post but I thought it is better that I add another post correcting myself and also let people know name of Muslim countries that defaulted and year they defaulted.
Anyhow, after looking at record of 184 years (1820 to 2003) one thing is certain and that is, Pakistan is the only South Asian country that defaulted, and only country that defaulted consecutively (1998 and again in 1999).
To default is shameful thing, though sometime situation do come on nation that they have to default. Situation could be ‘War or economical meltdown’, but whatever the reason, it is not a good thing. Seldom country defaults consecutively. Pakistan is the only country that defaulted consecutively (1998 and again in 1999) and I think other than mismanagement, incompetency and corruption of Nawaz government, there was no reason for Pakistani default.
Here is list of Muslim countries that defaulted between 1820 and 2003 (year on year).
Year: Country
1868: Tunisia
1876: Turkey and Egypt
1915: Turkey
1931: Turkey
1940: Turkey
1978: Turkey and Iran
1979: Sudan
1982: Turkey and Nigeria
1985: Yemen
1986: Nigeria and Morocco
1987: Iraq
1989: Jordan
1991: Albania and Algeria
1992: Bosnia 1998: Pakistan and Indonesia 1999: Pakistan
2000: Indonesia
2002: Indonesia and Nigeria
Muslim countries defaulted more than once:
Turkey: 6
Nigeria: 3
Indonesia: 3
Pakistan: 2
Muslim countries defaulted once (11 countries): Albania, Algeria, Bosnia, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Morocco, Sudan, Tunisia, and Yemen.
Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan?
....To default is shameful thing, though sometime situation do come on nation that they have to default. Situation could be ‘War or economical meltdown’, but whatever the reason, it is not a good thing. Seldom country defaults consecutively. Pakistan is the only country that defaulted consecutively (1998 and again in 1999) and I think other than mismanagement, incompetency and corruption of Nawaz government, there was no reason for Pakistani default......
Economic sanctions after nuclear tests, Saleem bhai.
Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan?
If Nawaz government received the same support and cooperation from USA as did Mush, things would have been much better. He might not be very intelligent but at-least he spent on infrastructure and indigenous industrial development. When you compare figures from 1999 to 2009, you need to keep in mind that Pakistan was under great financial stress after the nuclear tests.
In Mush time, mindless investment in non-productive sectors like real estate and telecom created a bubble that has ultimately resulted in massive inflation in Pakistan. We spend huge amount of foreign exchange to import equipment and handsets to support these telecom companies which repatriate most of the profits back to their mother countries. Number of mobile phones per capita was something Mush was proud of, which was achieved through minimal taxation on telecom services and handset imports.
Mush was fortunate that global economy (read bubble) was doing much better during that time and Pakistan received financial support from western countries after he was installed as chief in Pakistan by daddy.
Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan?
The Gupta dynasty were the best rulers of ancient India that included what is Pakistan in present time. It is a toss up within that dynasty between Chandragupta I and Ashoka (his grandson). The former probably scores as the greater creator and the latter as the greater sustainer/ruler.
Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan?
If Nawaz government received the same support and cooperation from USA as did Mush, things would have been much better. He might not be very intelligent but at-least he spent on infrastructure and indigenous industrial development. When you compare figures from 1999 to 2009, you need to keep in mind that Pakistan was under great financial stress after the nuclear tests.
What infrastructure? He only developed Punjab. He didn't do sht for the rest of Pakistan. Tell me what he did for Karachi, Interior Sindh, Balochistan etc? Under Musharraf's time Pakistan faced natural disasters like the earthquake in Kashmir, the year after that GDP still continued to grow nicely. You can cry all you want about Musharraf's economy being a bubble but you can't deny the middle class grew hugely during his time.
Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan?
Dont post statstics please look at the reality on the ground. Prices of food, housing has increased above wages in the last 10 years.
The only thing hat has dropped in price is technology. Admittedly the middle class grew but life ofr the majority ie the poor has got worse over the last 20 years.
On thing Mush did good was develop the road system throughout Pakistan especially Balochistan. He also improved law and order especially in interior Sindh which has deteriorated since the PPP came in power.
From 1999-2006 Pakistan did fairly well but then after 2007 whatever improvements had been made were undone by Mush's greed forpower.
Re: Whom do you think was the best ruler of Pakistan?
From 1999-2006 Pakistan did fairly well but then after 2007 whatever improvements had been made were undone by Mush's greed forpower.
That's correct. He would have been remembered nicely in Pakistan's history if he had not tried to clinch to power in the last days. I couldn't believe at that time that it is the same Musharraf who was always so eloquent and so realistic whenever he spoke. In the end he was reckless and greedy, and totally oblivious of people's mood.
I think rulers in 50s were better. People like Iskander Mirza and Khwaja Nazimuddin. At least they were not corrupt. Iskander Mirza used to travel in buses in London after he left power. Khwaja Nazimuddin was from the True Muslim League team of Quaid's times. One of the founders of Pakistan.
It would have been great to include that great lady, Fatima Jinnah, in this list. Again, she was one of the most trusted members of Team Jinnah.
Too bad Ayyub Khan's greed for power made her lose those false elections. Ayyub not only destroyed her political future but also sown the seeds of breaking of country. Because Bengalis were overwhelmingly supporting her. If she had come to power then Bengalis would have been satisfied and would not have listened to people like Mujeeb.
