I am not talking about individuals, rather institution/sector wise. Inspired by Ajju’s comment in another thread about who is most corrupt. So I started digging info at Transparency International.
Here is a graph from 2008 GCR by Transparency International:
Now this graph is NOT for PAKISTAN only! It is “global” representation of sectors/institutions’ corruption. I believe if a graph is plotted for Pakistan only then it will be similar though some information will be misleading due to lack of information/details esp for Military and Religious bodies (I think).
By corruption of “Political parties” it is not meant that party governance itself is infested with corruption (though it very well may be) but its for the lawmakers, MNAs etc.
The other graph below shows “petty bribery” corruption:
Probably this is what everyone (almost) faces one day or the other. Again this graph represents GLOBAL experience.
My feeling is that graph would be similar for Pakistan. Police taking bulk of the bribe and killing justice system at the root level. Next is when a case goes to court then judiciary corruption kills rest of the justice available.
When a case is really presented in the court after passing thru police and judiciary corruption then comes the show of people from the 1st graph i.e. who gets to twist the case or comes to the rescue of one of the guilty parties.
So my conclusion is that police is the FIRST and BIGGEST corrupt institution as they are the first ones to actually face/register and investigate the crimes and then take it to the court. Second biggest hurdle is judiciary.
If we can reform these two institutions somehow, then MOST of our problems will be solved.
Now, billi ke galay mai ghantee kon baandhay ga? :aq:
**NOTE: Please no political parties/ethnicity bashing here! **
sarkar, fonts say bacchpan ki dushmani hai kya?
lets nto get into the same old TI report on mausharraf please, it will take the thread in diff direction.
here the focus is on institutions that are most corrupt
The most critical instution is the Judiciary. If it is corrupt then it does not matter how un-corrupt Police and other institutions are. A corrupt Judiciary will corrupt every other institution eventually while a clean jon-corrupt Judiciary will eventually make all other institutions non-corrupt.
Thread has been cleaned up, the topic is corruption in departments/institutions. Please no comparing performance from govt to govt here, we have been on that road many many times already, thanks.
if i recall correctly TI report on pakistani institutions listed police and judiciary as pretty bad as well.
billi kay galay mein ghanti..hmmm good question
Can anyone point to any improvement in police by the devolution plan by the Musharraf govt? Was it any good in terms of serving people, reducing corruption etc?
bhai jab pata hai k nahi hai to thread khol ker time q zayea kerwatay ho?
kher, i have some doubts about this report. it says only half of the police, tax authorities, whereas 30% of the education system is corrupt?
i believe that since there is no law enforcement or anything proper exists in pakistan...so it should around 80-90%
whereas education...gimme a break! "if writing a name only, concludes 49.9% of literacy rate of Pakistan" then this percentage is a perishable one....cuz it only exists in Urban cities
besides...Pakistan is an agricultural country....60-70% of its population (which is around 17 crore now) lives in rural areas...so i strongly believe this picture is only depicting few adhocracies of big cities..nothing intriguing.
another thing is, how did they concluded all these ratio (lol...seems like a weather forecasting report)
kher my concern is...lets say police dept...if DIG is a corrupt one, and 50 siphai's are not corrupt...is this report putting everyone on same level? (cuz no matter what DIG has more- infinitive powers.)
another thing is, how did they concluded all these ratio (lol...seems like a weather forecasting report)
kher my concern is...lets say police dept...if DIG is a corrupt one, and 50 siphai's are not corrupt...is this report putting everyone on same level? (cuz no matter what DIG has more- infinitive powers.)
its perception of institutional corruption. How many people feel that an institution is corrupt, now whether it is corrupt from teh bottom up or top down it matters less to someone who got railroaded by them.
Transparency INt'l is a noted global organizaton adn although not perfect does it best.
for these sort of surveys they use statistical sampling, provide error rates etc. and while it is not to be taken as teh divine truth, sampling methodology has evolved to a point that it is used quite extensively in many fields.
Did you really read the graphs? Its says "percentage of respondents who reported these institutions to be corrupt/extremely corrupt" etc.
you missed the point, which is why i talked about education sector. who exactly those respondents are? majority ppl of living in rural, or handful of sheri ppl?
And next thing you’ll ask me their home addresses and phone numbers? :aq:
As Rebel X said, they have their process, evaluation standards in place and they apply it across the globe. They might not be perfect but they are presenting data. YOUR own perception might differ from theirs but they are only asking statistically random people. I am not aware if they picked different people for questions on different sectors, so I can’t tell whether the respondents were “shehry” or “rural”.
If you wish to challenge their method please feel free to do so in a separate thread, thanks.
its perception of institutional corruption. How many people feel that an institution is corrupt, now whether it is corrupt from teh bottom up or top down it matters less to someone who got railroaded by them.
Transparency INt'l is a noted global organizaton adn although not perfect does it best.
for these sort of surveys they use statistical sampling, provide error rates etc. and while it is not to be taken as teh divine truth, sampling methodology has evolved to a point that it is used quite extensively in many fields.
thanks...it is interesting to see how much it easy for them (and also for many of us) to conclude, rather than conjecture the definitive percentage of corruption of a third world country (where the population mostly exist in rural areas...jahan per na to bijli jati hai or na he koe sarak).
asking about the country where no one like to go, but outsiders are guiding their stats.
thanks...it is interesting to see how much it easy for them (and also for many of us) to conclude, rather than conjecture the definitive percentage of corruption of a third world country (where the population mostly exist in rural areas...jahan per na to bijli jati hai or na he koe sarak).
asking about the country where no one like to go, but outsiders are guiding their stats.
sampling is done for all kinds of stuff in other countries as well, and prior to internet and widespread use of phone surveys, or pervasiveness of phones reaching residents in remote areas and rural areas was tough as well.
forget about outsiders, how do u think local marketing research firmsin Pakistan do their surveys and sampling?
Corruption is not a cause but rather a symptom of the economic woes of the country. If people can afford to live a decent standard of living and have all their basic necessities provided, the incident of corruption of this magnitude is non-existent.
The problem here with corruption is an issue of law and order and a failure of the government to contribute the basic facilities to the people of Pakistan. We have a huge electricity crisis. One thing people do not highlight that this leads to economic instability. All our industries, primary, secondary and tertiary require electricity. 5 hours of no power is a loss of millions of dollars to our economy easily.
If the government can not provide power, water, shelter and security, with increasing inflation, higher prices of all commodities how is the average man supposed to survive. The cost of living is increasing exponentially without inflation factored in and the government in no way is increasing wages.
In addition the richest elite have established a custom and system of money makes everything possible. The average man thinks if I can get the money as well I can do what is needed. This is all interlinked in my opinion with a society that is morally challenged. Actually no, Pakistani society has no moral values left whatsoever. The rich middle class wish to be white and want everything handed to them and throw around their weight like anything. Basically a poor policeman that does his duty is screwed over by some prick who speaks French better than urdu and pays off the top guy to do what he wants.
Leadership comes from the top and we have proven quite actively our leaders are the most corrupt of them all. Linking that with the average person not having enough money to survive, it is a major issue. What is he going to do to survive if not ask for bribes considering everybody is doing it now.
Want to clean up our corruption issue, hang every *ing **** in our parliament right now. Simply state corruption is a sin (as a Hadis of our Prophet openly states) and make it a capital punishment offence.
