Re: Who was he?
the text you bolded is tassuwaff, kind of example of unity of the being they believe in.
Actually its not
I have it down as Shariah
Perhaps there is a little bit of tasawwuf but thats only in its uptake (acceptance) but certainly nothing to do with unity of being or anything like that
Re: Who was he?
^Idea of unity of the being comes from tassuwaf, right? You are not separate from your creator,right? how to distinguesh between the creator and creation?
Peace ajazali
There are many such concepts in Islam ... That Allah (SWT) is closer to us than our own jugulars but also Allah (SWT) is the Highest ... That we seek to be with Allah (SWT) ... yet Allah (SWT) is Alone ... We will see Allah (SWT) but nothing can encapsulate Him and so on ...
The way to understand this is to understand two different axes of existence ... When you talk about distinguishing between Creator and Creation is on the axis of the Attributes that show the Majesty of Allah (SWT) whereas when we talk about unity we talk from the frame of reference of the Beauty of Allah (SWT) ... These are very serious topics in aqeedah and should be studied in detail and hopefully your concerns will go ...inshaAllah.
Re: Who was he?
Actually its not I have it down as Shariah
Perhaps there is a little bit of tasawwuf but thats only in its uptake (acceptance) but certainly nothing to do with unity of being or anything like that
Brother - It is neither Shari'ah nor Tassuwwuf - it is 'aqeedah ...
Tassuwwuf is the discipline of "making ourselves better receptors at receiving the grace of Allah (SWT)"
Shari'ah is the discipline of "the limbs" the code and conduct.
'Aqeedah is the domain in which we establish the system of belief in what is possible and not possible and how to understand concepts and what to establish in our belief systems to be called Muslims, including Tawheed.
So when it is asked "Do you believe in the unity of being" that is a question aimed at the 'aqeedah of the individual.
Re: Who was he?
Salam Alaikum Psyah have you come across the term Shari'ah used in a way which encompasses the term Aqeedah? I think i heard it. This application of the term resonated with me really well. It would mean... Shariah = (Aqeedah + Fiqh + Tassuwwuf). What do you think?
Re: Who was he?
Respect has different forms... The respect one has for Allah swt is not the same as for Rasool Allah saw. One is creator the other is creation... Oh and tassuwuf teaches me to love the prophet because he was the beloved of Allah.
Well, the argument presented seems like that since you cannot respect any given thing more than 100%, you give that 100% respect to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and since you cannot go beyond this level, it is all you have left for Allah as well.
Re: Who was he?
^Idea of unity of the being comes from tassuwaf, right? You are not separate from your creator,right? how to distinguesh between the creator and creation?
Perhaps some sufi on here could explain the concept of unity in plain, clear, simple English. I have yet to come across anyone who did. Because when they try they end up saying things which even makes them think what are we saying.
Re: Who was he?
Well, the argument presented seems like that since you cannot respect any given thing more than 100%, you give that 100% respect to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and since you cannot go beyond this level, it is all you have left for Allah as well.
Erm no...because they are are two different entities! After all all you dont love your mother 98% and your father 2%. You love them both equally. Each for their individual reasons.
Same here...You love Allah swt and you love the Best of His creation! Nothing else is required/mattering! :)
Re: Who was he?
Erm no...because they are are two different entities! After all all you dont love your mother 98% and your father 2%. You love them both equally. Each for their individual reasons.
Same here...You love Allah swt and you love the Best of His creation! Nothing else is required/mattering! :)
Well, for starters the mother and father analogy is flawed. Imam Al-Qurtubi clearly says mother is to be loved and showed concern three times more than the father given the Hadith in which the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon) mentioned the mother three times when asked by a Companion (may Allah be pleased with him) who deserves my companionship more.
Second, this is what vroom is suggesting if you read his post. You have a miximum Adab. This is 100% You give that to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). You cannot go beyond maximum. Thus, we have that same 100% left for Allah.
Re: Who was he?
Well, for starters the mother and father analogy is flawed. Imam Al-Qurtubi clearly says mother is to be loved and showed concern three times more than the father given the Hadith in which the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon) mentioned the mother three times when asked by a Companion (may Allah be pleased with him) who deserves my companionship more.
Second, this is what vroom is suggesting if you read his post. You have a miximum Adab. This is 100% You give that to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). You cannot go beyond maximum. Thus, we have that same 100% left for Allah.
I agree with your min and max limitations but Im saying the love that you have for the creator is not the same for Rasool Allah.
A jug full of water WILL FILL two empty cups....
Re: Who was he?
I agree with your min and max limitations but Im saying the love that you have for the creator is not the same for Rasool Allah.
You jug full of water WILL FILL two empty cups....
Please note that those are not my points the max and min ones. Those are vrooms.
Second, I agree with you that Allah and the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) cannot be loved equally.
I am trying to understand what vroom is saying.
Re: Who was he?
Well, for starters the mother and father analogy is flawed. Imam Al-Qurtubi clearly says mother is to be loved and showed concern three times more than the father given the Hadith in which the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon) mentioned the mother three times when asked by a Companion (may Allah be pleased with him) who deserves my companionship more.
Second, this is what vroom is suggesting if you read his post. You have a miximum Adab. This is 100% You give that to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). You cannot go beyond maximum. Thus, we have that same 100% left for Allah.
Id like to know why Vroom thinks we are only capable of Adab to one person at one time? And lets leave the mother and father analogy to one side for a min. So you have never had an occasion where you have enjoyed two things equally at the same time in its own different way? I find that hard to believe. I used to enjoy wearing a certain aftershave but i equally enjoy wearing a different one...i enjoy them both!
Re: Who was he?
Id like to know why Vroom thinks we are only capable of Adab to one person at one time?
I did not say that (although 1 possible answer to your question could be referencing one at a time, in your persons example each person would be referred to one at a time)
Re: Who was he?
I have heard these terms:
Shari’ah + Tariqah = Haqqiqah
Deen = Islam + Iman + Ihsan
Schools are for Fiqh, 'Aqeedah and Tassuwwuf
On this logic - 'aqeedah does not fit in either Shari’ah or Tariqah - it is the controlling agent of both. The aqeedah sets the intentions and beliefs that lie behind the actions in Shar’iah and Tariqah.
The relationship between Shari’ah and Tariqah is that Shari’ah is the road that goes to Allah (SWT) and Tariqah is the way we walk on it. Personally I have tended to equate Fiqh with Shari’ah … with your definition if tassuwwuf goes into Shari’ah then it can’t go in to Tariqah or it goes into both… which makes it complicated when you try to understand the formula Tariqah with Shari’ah leads to Haqiqah.
Re: Who was he?
Can we stop this intellectualism please and go back to hadith … and 'aqeedah - so long as we do not do Shirk in the Attributes of Allah (SWT) we are fine … If we embody a reflection of the names of RasoolAllah (SAW) we are on a winner.
Which of these are we conflicting if we love RasoolAllah (SAW) to the max?
The Names and Attributes of Allah
None … because Shirk is defined by a conflict in 'aqeedah elements of understanding Allah (SWT) it is not judged by how we behave in displays of love and respect.
Re: Who was he?
So, it seems that some people here have the following train of thought
Others say, without getting into the max and min mathematics, you love both Allah and the Messenger (peace be upon him) - at the same time - but your love for Allah is more than your love for the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him).
Re: Who was he?
If I am sincere with RasoolAllah (SAW) can I be more sincere than sincere?
These are distractions ...
I love Allah (SWT) because of Allah (SWT) and love RasoolAllah (SAW) because he is the true 'Abd of Allah (SWT) and he who loves the one who Allah (SWT) loves Allah (SWT) Loves him ... The amount of love is a distraction device to separate the Ummah ...
Realise that the love to Allah (SWT) is in recognition of His Lordship over us, the love to RasoolAllah (SAW) is because of his sacrifice, his love for us and his manifestation as the rahmatul'alameen, because he is beloved to Allah (SWT) ... Where is the controversy in that?
Re: Who was he?
So, it seems that some people here have the following train of thought
Others say, without getting into the max and min mathematics, you love both Allah and the Messenger (peace be upon him) - at the same time - but your love for Allah is more than your love for the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him).
I am not comfortable with your wording. I prefer my initial statement, the later statements were explanations for others (perhaps sound and everything) but my position was the one initially given. These things you are saying seem a bit off.
For example you wrote "*you only have that love left for Allah"
*The truth is on the contrary, I, like most of us, was born into Believing in Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala
So that means what came after is Guidance from Allah All-Mighty
It is important for me that this is the way the fact is given, the perceived sense of Maximum Adab for Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala came first
Also the words have changed from adab to love, my opinion on love is different
Narated By Anas : The Prophet said "None of you will have faith till *he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind." *
Reference
►Bukhari Volume 001, Book 002, Hadith Number 014.
Love of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam takes one towards faith and eventually to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala
Re: Who was he?
I am not comfortable with your wording. I prefer my initial statement, the later statements were explanations for others (perhaps sound and everything) but my position was the one initially given. These things you are saying seem a bit off.
For example you wrote "*you only have that love left for Allah" *The truth is on the contrary, I, like most of us, was born into Believing in Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala
So that means what came after is Guidance from Allah All-Mighty
It is important for me that this is the way the fact is given, the perceived sense of Maximum Adab for Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala came first
Also the words have changed from adab to love, my opinion on love is different
Narated By Anas : The Prophet said "None of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind."
Reference
►Bukhari Volume 001, Book 002, Hadith Number 014.
*Love of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam takes one towards faith and eventually to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala
*
This says it all!!!!
Re: Who was he?
Perhaps some sufi on here could explain the concept of unity in plain, clear, simple English. I have yet to come across anyone who did. Because when they try they end up saying things which even makes them think what are we saying.
well said. I have met several sufis in person and asked them similar questions. they have no authentic and direct reference they back what they say.