And what kind of a moron is he to dictate what goes in a Khutba or not?
the posts should be in religion forum... ;-)
ABbbas kumeli along with ghulam abbas najfi r the most notorias of the zakireen lot......keep away from tthem
Re: Who the heck is Abbas Kumaili?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
And what kind of a moron is he to dictate what goes in a Khutba or not?
[/QUOTE]
is he from PAK. who is he. he seems like Raffadi.
AND IMDAD SIRF ALLAH LE HUTEE he.
ALI ke nahee.
Re: Re: Who the heck is Abbas Kumaili?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
he seems like Raffadi.
AND IMDAD SIRF ALLAH LE HUTEE he.
ALI ke nahee.
[/QUOTE]
If the help of Hadhrat Ali (A.S.) or any of the other ma'sumeen is sought as an intercessor and a 'waseelah' envisaged by the Holy Qur'an in Ayah 35 of Suratul Maidah then not only there can be no objection but it would be the right and proper thing to do.
But if help is sought in the belief that the person whose help sought shares with Allah the right to create, sustain and protect then the call for help might amount to 'shirk'.
The Ayah referred to above reads as follows:
"O you who believe ! Be mindful of your Duty to Allah, and seek a way to approach him"
Yes we believe that there is no God but Allah.
Yes the Prophets worship Allah.
Yes the Imams worship Allah.
Yes the Shiites worship Allah.
But, what about when Prophet Adam used tawassul to Prophet Muhammad.
What about when the examples where people came to prophets seeking help, and the prophets fulfilling their needs.
Are those known to be Shirk?
What about when Allah HIMSELF is advising us to “seek means of approach”?
Is He suggesting us to do Shirk?
Intercession toward the prophet and his household in no way introduces polytheism, for it is an order from Allah through the holy Quran to “seek means of approach”.
Ask Allah for His mercy and grace
Waslam,
Inuit…The way to approach Allah :swt: is cleanly and definitely described by the Holy Prophet :saw:…If the Holy Prophet :saw: approached someone for intercession, then we certainly too can approach someone for intercession…But the dead do not provide intercession for anyone…
Do you believe the Holy Prophet :saw: asked someone for intercession? Many people will say ‘Oh, but he was Prophet and he doesn’t need intercession’…Wrong…Every Prophet had at one time or another made dua and that dua was not accepted by Allah :swt: in His infinite Wisdom…That didn’t mean the Prophets approached someone higher to make intercession…Even Jibraeel :as: was never asked to intercede…
And anyways, it’s not like there is a communication gap between the Creator and His creations…All you need to do is make dua, and it will be heard…As for its being fulfilled, that of course is upto Him…Why bring a third party between yourself and Allah :swt:…
And don’t bring me Owais Kerni 
's example…
Thanks for the info Bao...:)
What/who are Zakireen?
P.S. Also, is someone keeping track of how many sects of Musllims there are right now? Have we hit the 73 mark yet?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
Thanks for the info Bao...:)
What/who are Zakireen?
P.S. Also, is someone keeping track of how many sects of Musllims there are right now? Have we hit the 73 mark yet?
[/QUOTE]
Jazakallah bro.........
well from zakireen i meant shia professional zakireen who do majalis etc................
can u plz explain why u opened the thread........i dont understand what is meant by ur first posts.......?.....
JazakAllah Bao…
Somone mentioned in a post that Mr. Kumaili was dictating to the Imams of Masajids what to say and what not to say during their Khutbas…
Re: Re: Re: Who the heck is Abbas Kumaili?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
If the help of Hadhrat Ali (A.S.) or any of the other ma'sumeen is sought as an intercessor and a 'waseelah' envisaged by the Holy Qur'an in Ayah 35 of Suratul Maidah then not only there can be no objection but it would be the right and proper thing to do.
But if help is sought in the belief that the person whose help sought shares with Allah the right to create, sustain and protect then the call for help might amount to 'shirk'.
The Ayah referred to above reads as follows:
"O you who believe ! Be mindful of your Duty to Allah, and seek a way to approach him"
Yes we believe that there is no God but Allah.
Yes the Prophets worship Allah.
Yes the Imams worship Allah.
Yes the Shiites worship Allah.
But, what about when Prophet Adam used tawassul to Prophet Muhammad.
What about when the examples where people came to prophets seeking help, and the prophets fulfilling their needs.
Are those known to be Shirk?
What about when Allah HIMSELF is advising us to “seek means of approach”?
Is He suggesting us to do Shirk?
Intercession toward the prophet and his household in no way introduces polytheism, for it is an order from Allah through the holy Quran to “seek means of approach”.
Ask Allah for His mercy and grace
Waslam,
[email protected]
[/QUOTE]
This Surah talks about Prophet Muhammads(SAW) Waseela.
Not anybody else. MASOOM. Only Prophets and Angels are Masoom.
And the household doesn't include 500 year family line.
You (INTUIT) don't talk about Prophet Muhammad(SAW).
Allah commands His faithful servants to fear Him in Taqwa, which if mentioned along with acts of obedience, it means to refrain from the prohibitions and the prohibited matters. Allah said next,
(seek the Wasilah to Him.) Wasilah means `the means of approach'. Ayah means, "Seek the means of approach to Him by obeying Him and performing the acts that please Him.''
(Whoever, after hearing to the Adhan says, "O Allah! Lord of this perfect call and of the regular prayer which is going to be established! Grant Muhammad the Wasilah and superiority and send him [on the Day of Judgment] to the praiseworthy station which You have promised him," then intercession from me will be permitted for him on the Day of Resurrection.) Muslim recorded that Abdullah binAmr bin Al-`As said that he heard the Prophet saying,
When you hear the Mu'adhdhin, repeat what he says, and then ask for Salah (blessing, mercy from Allah) for me. Verily, whoever asks for Salah for me, then Allah will grant ten Salah to him. Then, ask for the Wasilah for me, for it is a grade in Paradise that only one servant of Allah deserves, and I hope that I am that servant. Verily, whoever asks (Allah) for Wasilah for me, he will earn the right of my intercession.)
Re: Re: Re: Who the heck is Abbas Kumaili?
But, what about when Prophet Adam used tawassul to Prophet Muhammad.
EXPLAIN FURTHER
What about when the examples where people came to prophets seeking help, and the prophets fulfilling their needs.
EXPLAIN FURTHER. and there is Difference b/w Prophets and Imams.
What about when Allah HIMSELF is advising us to “seek means of approach”?
Is He suggesting us to do Shirk?
He suggesting that recite Durood Shareef and follow Koran and
Sunnah. And Prophet Muhammad(SAW) will intercede for the
reciter in DAY OF JUDGEMENT.
Intercession toward the prophet and his household in no way introduces polytheism, for it is an order from Allah through the holy Quran to “seek means of approach”.
Don't show One Ayat. Explain further what you mean by Waseela.
Intercession is only for Day of Judgement.
and Koran has not talked about so many Imams.
When Koran talks about a ISSUE it is always discussed in some other AYATS(Surahs) also.
And please explain "SEEK MEANS OF APPRAOCH".
Or you will run away as usual.
take care
No sectarian comments, please.
Dear Brother Rehman1:
Its really a nice discussion with you. May Allah reward you in this. because of you lots of people are learning much.
Your one paragraph conflicts with the other paragraph. The way you wrote shows that you simply oppose the opinions of others following your personal thoughts without any in-depth knowledge. You learnt few things which do not fulfill the requirement.
In the first paragraph you wrote:
“This Surah talks about Prophet Muhammads(SAW) Waseela.”
It means if we say “Ya Rasool Allah Madad” it would be okay as per your saying in the first paragraph. As Ahle Sunnah wal Jamat use to say.
And in the second paragraph you wrote:
(seek the Wasilah to Him.) Wasilah means `the means of approach'. Ayah means, "Seek the means of approach to Him by obeying Him and performing the acts that please Him.''
Which means the Holy Prophet Muhammad is not a Waseela but your deeds are your Waseela. Your deeds should be good to please Allah.
The Ayah referred as follows:
"O you who believe ! Be mindful of your Duty to Allah, and seek a way to approach him"
**Yousaf:
O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper. [5:35]
Shakir
O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful. [5:35]
DrMohsin
O you who believe! Do your duty to Allâh and fear Him. Seek the means of approach to Him, and strive hard in His Cause as much as you can. So that you may be successful. [5:35]**
In this Ayah Allah ordered us 2 things to do
(1) Be Mindful of your duty to Allah.
(2) Seek a way to approach him
You merged the meaning of first part of Ayah with the other; in the first part “be mindful of your duty to Allah” it is said to “obeying Him and performing the acts that please Him” this explanation of for the first part.
And for the second part “Seek a way to approach him”. You simply ignored it, because it was against your Aqqeed.
How courageously you write things and don’t understand the meaning of those things even. You wrote:
He (ALLAH) suggesting that recite Durood Shareef and follow Koran and Sunnah.
You simple answer me that do you think that following Koran and Sunnah is a small thing that you are taking it as a single act.
Brother! It is a huge subject which covers the whole life of a Mooomin from his birth to his death. It includes everything from dealing with the people in socity and how to Worship the Almighty Allah. Waseela is one of the topics in this enormous study of Quran and Sunnah. So please don’t give these kinds of suggestions to people considering that they don’t follow Quran and Sunnah.
Before I continue mentioning ahadith regarding tawassul toward or from the prophets, it would be best to first mention Quranic verses that legitimize tawassul.
“Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by his permission” (2:255); “Surely your Lord is Allah who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, and He is firmly established on the throne, regulating the affair; there is no intercessor except after His Permission.”
Notice the words “but” and “except” in the above mentioned verses. These verses do not condemn the presence of an intercessor; they just put a condition for the fact of intercession. So far we are establishing the fact that intercession is not something condemned in Islam, rather it is something accepted highly by Islam. There are many more verses in the same context that explain the legitimacy of tawassul.
You asked me: What about when Prophet Adam used tawassul to Prophet Muhammad.
The Abbasid caliph, Mansur al-Dawaniqi, once asked Imam Malik ibn Anas whether he should turn towards the grave of the Prophet (s) or face the Qiblah for supplication? Malik answered him:
Why do you want to turn away from the Prophet (s) when he (Prophet Muhammad (s)) is the wasilah (means) for you and for your father Adam, towards Allah on the Day of Resurrection. Turn to him (the Prophet) and seek his intercession (shafa'at).
[Taken from Al-Mughni ma' al-Sharh, vol. 3, p. 588; al-Sharh al-Kabir ma' al-Mughni, vol. 3, p. 494; al-Qadi `Iyad in al-Shifa (2:92-93)
In this regard we shall cite two narrations from Tafseer Durre Manthur, by Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah al Hafidh Jaladeen Suyuti:
"Hadhrath 'Ali narrates that he asked Rasulullah 'Which words did Allah (swt) teach Adam. He (swt) replied 'O Allah I seek repentance through Muhammad and his family".
"Ibn al Najjar narrates that Ibn Abbas asked Rasulullah (s) in connection with the above matter, and Rasul (s) stated, Adam send "Through Muhammad, 'Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husayn, please accept my repentance. Allah (swt) then accepted his repentance".
This supplication can be located in the following texts of leading Hanafi scholars:
• Ashraf Ali Thanvi in his Sharh Ahfaq “Taleem al Deen” page 171 (Dar al Ishat Publishers, Karachi.
• Maulana Haji Imdadallah Muhajr Makki in “Irshad Murshid page 13 published by Ashrafeeya Deobandia Publishers).
• Maulana Husayn Ahmad Madani in “Silasil Tayibba” page 14 (Published by Dar al Islameeya, Anarkali, Lahore)
All three scholars have deemed it permissible to seek help via Imam ‘Ali (as) due to his position as a Hadi (Guide), to the point that all three have recorded the following supplication in their books:
“O remove ignorance from us, and enlighten us with realities and knowledge, through ‘Ali, your true Guide of Knowledge”.
Qadhi Thana’ullah Panee Pathee is a classical Hanafi scholar, who wrote on a vast array of topics including Fiqh, philosophy and tawassaf. His most recognized / authority work is Tafseer Mazhari. In his commentary of Surah Aal-e-Imran Volume 2 page 140, he records the following supplication:
“The heart and center of guidance towards miracles is Hadhrath ‘Ali (may Allah enlighten his face). Amongst the Ummah, both past and present no one can attain the station of Wilayath without the assistance of ‘Ali’s soul, this station can only be claimed by the Imams, the sons of ‘Ali through to Hasan al Askari”
Tafseer Mazhari Chapter Aal-e-Imran, Volume 2 page 140).
Now our question is simple were Imam Maliks, Ghazzali, Nawawi, Thanvi, Thana’ullua, not Sunni Muslims? No doubt they were they were leading Sunni Muslims and in fact Imams of Fiqh who endorsed the practice of tawassal.
If you don’t believe in tawassal that does not mean that the one billion Muslims around the world ascribe to those views.
Late leader of Sipaa-e-Sahaba-Pakistan Zia-ur-Rehman Faruqi as part of his efforts against Shias produced a book "Gustakh ai Sahaba ki Sharh Saza" (The punishment for those that disrespect the Sahaba). He also takes the opportunity to set out the virtues of the Sahaba including this wonderful reference:
**"When Hadhrath Nuh would construct some parts of the Ark, at night would fall to the ground and complain before Allah (swt). Allah (swt) told him to "recite the names of those that I have created". Nuh (as) asked "Who are they?". Allah (swt) said "My Prophet Muhammad and his companions Abu, Umar, Uthman and 'Ali".
Taken from "Gustakh ai Sahaba ki Sharh Saza" page 11, Publishers Dar ul Ishat al Ma'arif Faislabad]**
Whilst we certainly reject this tradition we have presented it to answer those who oppose tawassal and accuse the Shi'a of believing their Imams.
I hope this would be enough for you at this time.
Nicely said inuit
And I want to know who is Hizbut Tahrir and why are they threatening Pakistani senators from London? They seem like some western agents to me.
How does this relate to the thread? 
And anyways, it’s not like there is a communication gap between the Creator and His creations…All you need to do is make dua, and it will be heard…As for its being fulfilled, that of course is upto Him…Why bring a third party between yourself and Allah :swt:…
Excellent reply.
When Hadhrath Nuh would construct some parts of the Ark, at night would fall to the ground and complain before Allah (swt). Allah (swt) told him to "recite the names of those that I have created". Nuh (as) asked "Who are they?". Allah (swt) said "My Prophet Muhammad and his companions Abu, Umar, Uthman and 'Ali".
Taken from "Gustakh ai Sahaba ki Sharh Saza" page 11, Publishers Dar ul Ishat al Ma'arif Faislabad]
This is irrelevant. But since you mentioned it. Is that the
best reference you can come up with.
Why can't you QUOTE Imam Zainul Abideen or Imam Jaafar Sadiq.
Or are you unaware of their teachings.
*I am posting my relpy to the following message posted by Brother Rehman1;
I suggest readers to read my post in the thread before reading his reply. *
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
Is that the best reference you can come up with.Why can't you QUOTE Imam Zainul Abideen or Imam Jaafar Sadiq. Or are you unaware of their teachings.
[/QUOTE]
Rehman1: Fear Allah
We must have to understand the method of discussion, which is in practice since long.
When two people from different sects do discussion on a certain topic. It is a defined rule they always give references from the each other’s books. I always tried that and hope that you will at least accept the reference. This is the simplest way in which I can tell you.
It looked really very strange to me when I read reply from your side. A healthy discussion is only possible when both persons at least understand the basic rules of discussion.
I Hope you will understand the above message and reply in a decent way. Thanks
Wasalam,
Originally posted by Intuit:
It is a defined rule they always give references from the each other’s books.
I don't need your books to reply.Seriously why would i need your
books.
Dear Intuit
I just asked you about the teachings of Imam Zainulabideen and
Imam Jaffar Sadiq. Did their books taught you to CURSE
Companions(RA). Seriously, i doubt it.
Yes, i respect them.
take care
Lajawab is talking about the Senator who got a threatening letter from HT.