who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

[underthedome]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

Two other Israelis were wounded when gunmen in Lebanon began pounding the IDF's Zarit position and other posts along the border before 9 A.M. According to Al-Manar, Hezbollah kidnapped the two IDF soldiers at 9:05 A.M. and transferred them to a safe location

[Captain1]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

^ still not clear.

[PakistaniAbroad]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

Captain1 bhaijaan, Americans and Geography don’t really mix well..

let me illustrate so even utd can get it..

](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/../gsmedia/thumbs/PakistaniAbroad/carte-finul.gif)

[underthedome]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

Very good PA, and *Zarit is in Israel. *

[Ohioguy]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@Ohioguy

Dear Greencard,

No. History repeats itself. Hizbullah tried the exact same adventure in 2002. Sharon backed down. So Hizbullah tried it again figuring Olmert was not as tough as Sharon, and they would engineer some prisoner swap.

Oooops. There goes your country.

Acts of war should not be taken lightly.

Well, as if we didn’t already know this was correct, Hizbullah officials have now stated that they miscalculated. Idiots.

Hezbollah leader: Didn’t expect such response to abductions By Yuval Azoulay, [EMAIL=“[email protected]”]

 BEIRUT, Lebanon - A senior Hezbollah official said Tuesday the guerrilla group did not expect Israel to react so strongly to its capture of two Israel Defense Forces soldiers on July 12.

Mahmoud Komati, the deputy chief of the Hezbollah politburo, also told The Associated Press that his group will not lay down arms.

“The truth is - let me say this clearly - we didn’t even expect (this) response… that (Israel) would exploit this operation for this big war against us,” said Komati.

   He said Hezbollah had expected "the usual, limited response" from Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/742561.html

[PakistaniAbroad]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

of course they didn't.. cuz Israel just used this as a pretext.. this wasn't and couldn't be the reason for all out war which Israel has been planning for over a year and was all set to begin even before these soldiers got apprehended on the wrong side of the border..

[antiobl]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@PakistaniAbroad

.....Israel has been planning for over a year ...

Smart nations plan ahead and wait before starting a war.
Dumb ones on the other hand take knee-Jerk decisions.

Smart nations carefully assess their enemy's strenghts and weekness
Dumb ones just start a war without realizing how the other side will react.

Smart nations take out the infrastructure of their enemy.
Dumb ones lose their infrastructure in the first week.

Smart nations quietly prepare to destroy their enemy
Dumb ones cry "Mommy Mommy he is hurting me".

[underthedome]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

Hezbollah with the kidnapping and attack on Israel property showed that they are willing too attack Israel and with 10,000 missiles the IDF had to do something.
Israel doesn't start wars, it just finishes them.

[DaBest]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@underthedome

Israel doesn't start wars, it just finishes them.

By killing innocent civilians.

[underthedome]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

The IDF dropped leaflets hours before bombing Hezbollah strong hold in southern beruit suburbs telling people to leave, that doesn't sound like they are trying to kill innocents.

[DaBest]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@underthedome

The IDF dropped leaflets hours before bombing Hezbollah strong hold in southern beruit suburbs telling people to leave, that doesn't sound like they are trying to kill innocents.

They did anyway. Leaflets are useless propaganda for dogs on Pakistani forums to lap up.

[dope]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html

It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon’s side of the border with Israel. Hezbollah, which commands the Lebanese south, immediately seized on their crossing. They arrested two Israeli soldiers, killed eight Israelis and wounded over 20 in attacks inside Israeli territory.

I.rest.my.case.

[PakistaniAbroad]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@underthedome

Very good PA, and **Zarit is in Israel. **

Very irrelevant utd as the soldiers were captured inside Lebanese territory near Ayt As Shab..

there are only a handful of truthful accounts left, but hey they don’t lie when they say the media is controlled…

[underthedome]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@PakistaniAbroad

Very irrelevant utd as the soldiers were captured inside Lebanese territory near Ayt As Shab..

there are only a handful of truthful accounts left, but hey they don’t lie when they say the media is controlled…

Al-Manar reported that Hizbullah attacked IDF’s post by Za’rit, You denying Hizbullah’s media own account, oy vay!

[antiobl]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@dope

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html

It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon’s side of the border with Israel. Hezbollah, which commands the Lebanese south, immediately seized on their crossing. They arrested two Israeli soldiers, killed eight Israelis and wounded over 20 in attacks inside Israeli territory.

I.rest.my.case.

Interesting quote from this link that is so often denied by the likes of dabest.

**These Christians today - despite all the unity talk heard in Lebanon - do not feel that the Hezbollah prisoners in Israeli jails concern them. Nor do the Sheba Farms. They dislike the Shi’ite south of the country in as much as the Shi’ite leaders dislike the Christian districts of Lebanon.
**

[DaBest]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@antiobl

Interesting quote from this link that is so often denied by the likes of dabest.

I never denied that some genocidal Lebanese Christians (who also attacked Christians in the South) were against Hezbollah because they rather bow down like slave dogs to Israel and USA.

[dope]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@antiobl

Interesting quote from this link that is so often denied by the likes of dabest.

*These Christians today - despite all the unity talk heard in Lebanon - do not feel that the Hezbollah prisoners in Israeli jails concern them. Nor do the Sheba Farms. They dislike the Shi'ite south of the country in as much as the Shi'ite leaders dislike the Christian districts of Lebanon. *

I see...
Needlessly confusing the issue at hand with a welter of details and pseudo-intellectual babbling, designed to evoke either sheeplike agreement or further pointless arguing about inane details that are peripheral to the matter at hand.

So typical of the way you argue, antiobl.

Question: Who started it?
Answer: Israel
Anything else is just noise.

I rest my case.

[Ohioguy]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@dope

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html

It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon’s side of the border with Israel. Hezbollah, which commands the Lebanese south, immediately seized on their crossing. They arrested two Israeli soldiers, killed eight Israelis and wounded over 20 in attacks inside Israeli territory.

I.rest.my.case.

Uhhh Dope, what you are citing is an editorial, not a news report, datelined Damascus. Not exactly a neutral source.

[Ma_Mooli]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

@underthedome

It’s amusing you guys don’t want to celebrate the success of Hezbollah penetration of Israelis boarders but instead are scrapping at 2nd hand accounts of what happened.
From the dogs mouth…

**Hezbollah kidnapped two Israel Defense Forces soldiers on the northern border in the midst of massive shelling attacks on Israel's north Wednesday morning**. The IDF confirmed two of its soldiers were missing on the Lebanese border. 
 
**Hezbollah fighters attacked two IDF armored Hummer jeeps patrolling along the border with gunfire and explosives. The Hezbollah fighters nabbed two of the soldiers and wounded others in the Hummers. **
 
Immediately following the Hezbollah attack, the organization's Al-Manar television station began broadcasting clips calling on Israel to release Lebanese prisoners held in Israel. The Hezbollah demands emphasized the release of Lebanese militant Samir Al-Kuntar. Al-Manar also broadcast video clips of previous Palestinian and Lebanese attacks on IDF troops. 
 
**"Fulfilling its pledge to liberate the (Arab) prisoners and detainees, the Islamic Resistance ... captured two Israeli soldiers at the border with occupied Palestine**," the Syrian- and Iranian-backed Hezbollah said in a statement. 
 
"The two captives were transferred to a safe place," it said, without stating what condition the soldiers were in. 
 
**Two other Israelis were wounded when gunmen in Lebanon began pounding the IDF's Zarit position and other posts along the border before 9 A.M. According to Al-Manar, Hezbollah kidnapped the two IDF soldiers at 9:05 A.M. and transferred them to a safe location**
 
[http://www.palestinechronicle.org/story-07120675951.htm](http://www.palestinechronicle.org/story-07120675951.htm)
 
 
Ma Mooli, get you facts stright!

:hehe: utd luv, the article in the palestine chronicles is not from the horses mouth for two reasons..1) we are talking about lebanon here, hence palestine chronicles does not seem very lebanese-ish to me (D’oh), 2) the article you posted is infact from haaretz newspaper and from looking at their names, have been written by israelis. [Amos Harel, Jack Khoury and Yoav Stern].

So it may be straight from the dog’s mouth (Haaretz) mate, but thats about it methinks.

[mercenary2k]

Re: who started it, Israel or Hezbollah? (split from Should Pakistan support Arabs)

I have long recognized the one-sided policy of the US as part of the dilemma and advocated for both aid to Palestinians and, at the very least, a more neutral US policy that recognizes the excesses of Israel.

In all candor I must confess my disappointment that, upon the return of Gaza, which was so very long overdue and a major step toward peace, the Palestinians for the first time in their history abdicated control over their fate to outsiders.

Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. The belief that Israel will be removed and the land returned to the Palestinians is no more reality-based thinking than the suggestion the US will be turned back over to the American Indians.

My longstanding sentiments of support have been predicated on the belief that Palestinians had a sincere and honest desire for peace. By using Gaza to wage attacks upon Israel, I am not able to see that action as a step toward the same goal of peace that Israel made by its withdrawal from Gaza.

More disturbing is the clear connection with Hamas and Hezbollah to Syria and Iran. This gives the appearance at least that Palestinians have no honest desire for peace and they have joined in the denial of the right of Israel to exist in peace. To my dear friends who are Palestinians, Lebanese and Iranians, I must apologize, but under these circumstances I am no longer capable of supporting the Palestinians just desire for a Palestinian state, or their deserved rights to the West Bank or even Gaza, so long as there is a departure from the honest and sincere desire for peace and that genuine belief in peace is not demonstrated.

My support and the support of others across the world is being eroded by these actions. The current nightmare in Lebanon can end quickly. Hezbollah can end this. That is where we end the bloodshed first and foremost, and from there, we could proceed diplomatically to a saner solution.