Who should Muslims learn from?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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So before, i start to write out my 2 cents, i would like to say this is not to be offensive to Muslims or Jews! It’s just something which opened my mind.
As for the people living in the U.S, we get to interact with many different religions, cultures, and identities of people. For me, i relate everything back to Pakistan and how we can make it better, because that’s my home country. One of the religions/ groups of people i believe, us Muslims should take ideas from are the Jews. NOT for the religious ideas but the way Jews come together to support one another all around the world. I don’t know about the rest of the world, but the Jewish communities in the U.S in every state to every city, are so well put together. What i mean by that is in every city Jews are able to put their differences aside and come together to build a community. And the mind set behind the building of these communities is the circulation of money. I believe their goals is to never let the money out of the community. Therefore, in these communities they build restaurants, dry cleaners, and synagogues with many other things. And also keep in mind these communities are not only for Jews but for all other religions, they happily invite others because they are the richer areas compared to rest of the city.
Furthermore, it’s not only abt a community in a city but in the entire world. Thay are able to come together and support the Israeli army.
I believe there are two reason’s for the collapse which is coming up for the Muslims:
#1. Muslims are too greedy, and want everything for themselves, while their own people are suffering from their mistakes.
#2. Muslims want to advance by bringing in religion into the culture of the moment which leads to change in the religion, however, Jews advance by bringing in culture into their religion, therefore nothing can change their state of mind.
Culture will always change, however, as Allah said our religion should never change.
Yes, Muslims believe that Jews are their enemy, but if we are unable to learn something from our enemy,we are clearly not going to succeed.

“I killed half the Jews and left the other half for you to discover why I killed the first.”
Adolph Hitler

Jews have worked very hard to reach where they are today, however Muslims have a lot of work to do.

any comments?

p.s. mods feel free to move this thread if it does not belong here!

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Re: Who should Muslims learn from?

Muslims should learn from Muslims. Look at the history of Islam.

Travel Quiz Masters ~~waleedhbk!!!~~
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Re: Who should Muslims learn from?

Clearly we have not been able to do that!^ But that would be the ideal world.

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Re: Who should Muslims learn from?

Hats off Gaia sister for starting such a nice thread. Quaid-e-Azam and Allama Iqbal founded Pakistan and gifted to us. They had some dreams and expectations. If they were alive, they would hate to see if are not Islamic any more. I believe following changes should be made to make Pakistan a better muslim country along the lines of Saudi Arabia, Sudan or Afghanistan:

1) Dedicate 11% of the annual budget towards education/spread of Islam and charities not just across the Islamic world but across the world in general.

2) Everyone should study Islam and Arabic until the age of 16 before deciding to study anything.

3) Make Zakat for everyone comulsory.

4) Women should be allowed to do home duties and there should be separate school for girls.

5) Implement Sharia!

Timepass - February
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what you want to say? is this about Pakistan or about Muslims around the world?, why are you forgetting about Malaysia, Indonesia, U.A.E, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Turkey and other successful majority Muslim countries, most of the European countries are majority Christian countries aren't they successful, Jews in a way are minorities in this world they got no chance if they are not together, take the example of New Zealand, they are a small community and they just have to be aggressive and be together to be successful, if you are a Pakistani you got to focus on your country, develop, become moderate, social development is important for economical development and i like it when you write supporting not bringing religion into culture, Pakistan's biggest problem right at this time in its history is 'invasion of its culture by religious forces', now it is up to real Pakistanis to support moderaty(moderation) and defeat terrorism.

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Hope this doesn't turn out to be another Ju-bashing thread.

Gaia, if you are in America, then why don't you learn from Americans. Learn how they allow diverse thoughts contribute, how they allow innovation in the society. How they beat the crap out of anyone having bad ideas about their country.

Pakistanis too should behave as Americans and they will save Pakistan. Otherwise our country is doomed as long as we put Islamism before our country.

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Re: Who should Muslims learn from?

We need tassawuf in our Lives to attain the goodness of character and learn manners and etiquettes.

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yes indeed .. example of Sultan Salah Ud Din Ayoobi.. after he had passed away .. when spain was conqured ..the leader of the crusaders .went and kicked the grave of Sultan Salah ud Din Ayoobi and said .. where are u now oh salah ud Din... and he also said to his followered .. they day the mosques of the muslims are full at Fajar time .. that will be time we need to fear the Muslims..

although seems a lil thing . but even te kuffar knew / had some sorta concept of unity and importance of prayer ..

so one lesson to be learnt is to Pray to our Almighty Allah all Five times ..and if we gather at all five prayers ... that way we will meet eache other .. and this is a method of unity..

so therefore we should learn from our history as to what extents and hw far they went to keep the flag of Islam raised at full. and one of they biggest weapon was unity.

May Allah Almighty help us and guide us to the right path and keep us firm upon whaich we believe. (Aameen)

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Your example of Ayoobi and his grave are all mixed up. No wonder Islamists are being utterly defeated. When your first step is based on bad knowledge, everything from then on a slippery slope.

Salahuddin was a great general no doubt. But he existed in ancient times long before the era of cell phones, space travel, and scientific revolutions.

Anyone copying Sultans of centuries ago will surely lead himself to destruction.

Wake up and look around the world has changed. Now if you want to learn the art of war, then learn it from Gen. Powell, and Shwartzkoff. They will teach you how to fight an effective war.

If you want to develop, then learn from Europe and the US. They will teach you how to become strong.

Knowledge must be current, otherwise it is just useless, just like a donkey carrying a load of books.

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What I understood from Brother fbi786's post is the importance of salaat in our Lives.

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Which Sharia or Who's Shariah???

obviously Muslim do not accept the Shariah of Prophet (PBUH), they instead they follow different school of thought and these school of thoughts have some serious conflicts amount themselves...and are not ready to accept the idealogy of somebody else.. so who's shariah should we apply?>??

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Well no doubt that salaat if practiced the correct way, sharpens your mind.

However if salaat is not offered correctly (as it was intended originally), it has the opposite effect.

Majority of Islamists go through the motions of salaat, and thus gain no benefit from this wonderful practice.

You can bet your bottom dollar that almost all the Talibs, the murderers, the suicide bombers start their heinous crime-filled days with morning salat.

And guess what, they blast innocent people inside and outside the very mosques that were supposed to be the sacred, the holy, the most peaceful place for any Muslim.

Iqbal said it right!

Tu jo sur besajada huwa kabhi
To zameen say aanay lagi sada
tera dil to sanam aashna
tujhe kiya milay ga namaz main

Unless we clear our heart from all the prejudices and hate, salat will remain so, a practice that doesn't make a difference whatsoever.

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Very well said. May Allah give us the tawfiq and means to purify our hearts.

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Re: Who should Muslims learn from?

Islam and Arab Nationalism are deeply intertwined, unfortunately. Look at how despicably the Arabic states treat the Palestinians when they claim that they are brothers?

the fact remains the further right the middle east went to counter the secular liberalism of Europe it has  failed miserably. The Arabs have themselves to blame.

I dont think religion is to blame. sheer ignorance and stupidity is. The Arab world and to a certain extent the Muslim world felt that clutching onto religion and faith will re ignite the golden years. but what really happened was the exact opposite.

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Re: Who should Muslims learn from?

I have two comments ,
firstly when analyzing jewish history & comparing it to the muslims... the clock must not start from the 20th Century it should rather start from 2000 B.C ... nations rise & fall ..., when a nation rises to power that intrinsically develops certain kind of arrogance in their character & then they lose their position & start declining , similarly when a nation falls down, under worst oppression/repressiveness survival instincts
foster development of virtues that enable them to escape their subjugation & rise again.

if you analyze for most of their 4 thousand years history jewish people were going through same level of enslavement,cowardice , internal conflicts and all other character vices that we see in the muslim Ummah today....,
their renaissance took more then a thousand years in coming..., they lived under two periods of captivity & a period of diaspora spanning almost 1900 years... , so even though its nothing to be complaisant about but its not un-natural to expect the renaissance of Muslim Ummah to come at a similar pace.

On the question of whether jewish renaissance should be an exemplar for the muslim ummah..., it depends achievement of what values is the objective.
If the objective is limited solely to this world..., then surely in the jewish story is a great example to follow, but it must be understood in all its nuances..., it took more then just the virtues mentioned for them to reach this stage.., one cannot discard the role of deceit..., conspiratory character , intellectual enslavement & above all creation of an economic/financial system that enslaves the rest of the world.

If the here after is the ultimate objective then theirs is certainly not the example to follow..., the Holy Quran condemns the jews , although this has to be understood that the vices for which Allah condemns the jew in the Quran (specially in Sura-Baqra) are equally observed by the muslims today & hence equally applicable to us if anything it may be a quantitative difference there is certainly not a qualitative difference between the muslims of today & jewish character that is condemned in the Holy Quran.

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Good points. Yes people have a tendency to pick a short period of history and they draw false conclusions.

Now back to the ills of Muslims and who should they learn from.

Well the rules for "learning" are very simple. You pick the most advanced "example" as your teacher, and then emulate him to the best of your abilities.

Right now the people who are at the forefront of knowledge are the Western people. Thus anyone be it Muslim or non-Muslim must learn from them.

Ishq
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What makes jewish community bonded is not something they have only but something which can only be learnt through going certain situation.
In their case it was decades of persecution, centuries of exile, and threat to their existance.

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Sad to say......when the west learned technology.....................they concentrated on making weapons of mass destruction! ................and used them in the TWO World Wars.....................Europe lost over 30 Million souls during that enlightened period..................also persecuted the Jews.......which in turn created the mess we are in Now!

Get out from under that Burqa ...............you might get a better vision!

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Advanced civilization means "advance weapons". Just study the history of Babylonians, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Ottomans, and the west.

Your cell phone was invented in the West, and so was the internet, or the modern healthcare system, space travel, and you name it.

If you want to burry your head in Palestinian sands, then may god be with you.

Just remember, if you behave like Palestinians, you will be treated like Palestinians.

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This was my reason to start this thread, so just because there are some muslim countries successful, we have become seccessful muslims in the eyes of God? This was my point, that we have become so diverse in this world, that now we are becoming too weak. They might be successful right, however at the rate that this world is turning against muslims, they will not survive, unless if we all stick together. minority or majority, jews have worked hard to get where they are today, but again my point is that we are dividing ourselves up way too much in this world.