Re: Who Killed Zia?
No one has doen as much for the Americans as the Pakistan Army Generals have. Let us not forget Musharaf.
Americans like to change the face of puppet. and there is always PPP present which offers its services to uncle SAM. They ''liberate'' the people from clutches of dictatorship.
BB death isn't understandable though. She was all set to rule the country after cutting a deal brokered by americans and all.
Re: Who Killed Zia?
Consistently, slamming the US for Pakistan failure is just plain wrong. US has given an enormous amount of finance that no other country could match in a lifetime.
If Pakistan leadership were sincere they would have used the funds appropriately AND guess what? Pakistan would have been a strong regional economic player right now? but NO! It's all about filling ones own pockets.
Just look at the Asian tigers?! That is what happens with US support. Pakistan would rather breed hatred and terrorism.
Re: Who Killed Zia?
Consistently, slamming the US for Pakistan failure is just plain wrong. US has given an enormous amount of finance that no other country could match in a lifetime.
If Pakistan leadership were sincere they would have used the funds appropriately AND guess what? Pakistan would have been a strong regional economic player right now? but NO! It's all about filling ones own pockets.
Just look at the Asian tigers?! That is what happens with US support. Pakistan would rather breed hatred and terrorism.
When America gives money, don't you think they know where the money will end up? That it will end up in the pockets of the leaders and the masses will have to pay the price. The other category is supporting the military with equipment. It would be better for the US to support the people of Pakistan and to make their lives better by investing in infrastructure, education and capacity building.
True US has given us support but do you realise that we have been fighting wars and its consequences for the US for half of our existence and in excess of 30 years. Pakistan destroyed the Soviet Union for peanuts for the US and now is supporting the US again at a very small fraction of the cost of their expenditure in Afghanistan. We have lost many times more than what we got back from the US, and still we keep being reminded at every opportunity that US gives us billions. I would rather that the US stay away from the region and we then stand on our own feet which we are more than capable of doing.
Re: Who Killed Zia?
When America gives money, don't you think they know where the money will end up? That it will end up in the pockets of the leaders and the masses will have to pay the price. The other category is supporting the military with equipment. It would be better for the US to support the people of Pakistan and to make their lives better by investing in infrastructure, education and capacity building.
True US has given us support but do you realise that we have been fighting wars and its consequences for the US for half of our existence and in excess of 30 years. Pakistan destroyed the Soviet Union for peanuts for the US and now is supporting the US again at a very small fraction of the cost of their expenditure in Afghanistan. We have lost many times more than what we got back from the US, and still we keep being reminded at every opportunity that US gives us billions. I would rather that the US stay away from the region and we then stand on our own feet which we are more than capable of doing.
You're missing the point here... The money could be used better. I agree aid should be given in form of contracting out projects that will help the masses through improved health care, education..
My rant is merely the use of funds. Pakistan would had to act to counter soviet influence otherwise it would be surrounded by USSR and India. In terms of the war on terror its important to consider the terrorists sympathisers within the Pakistan leadership. It's an evil we help create and now its biting us back.
Re: Who Killed Zia?
The Agartala conspiracy case was held under the rule of “daddy” where as attock conspiracy case was related to overthrowing the government of his highness.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FL22Df03.html
On January 6, 1968, the government announced that 28 people had been arrested on charges of hatching a plot to bring about the secession of East Pakistan (now Bangladesh). The accused also included naval official Lieutenant-Commander Muazzam Hussain, a non-commissioned seaman. The then president, Field Marshal Ayub Khan, released all accused after a few years’ jail. The case is known as the Agartala conspiracy.
Several officers of Pakistan’s army and air force were arrested on March 30, 1973, on charges of conspiring to overthrow the government of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. The detainees included Major Farooq Adam, Major Nadir Pervez (who later became a federal minister in the Nawaz Sharif government), Brigadier Wajid Ali Shah, Colonel Hamdani, and Major Ayaz Sipra, and a total of 59 officers were declared conspirators. The case is well known as the Attock conspiracy. Fifteen army and four air-force officers were found guilty of conspiracy and were handed jail terms ranging from three months to life.
Re: Who Killed Zia?
well i guess you are desensitized from all the dictators you have been made to adore and love as leaders in your country as well as in the oil regions. but technically a dictator commits treason and most countries with self-respect reserve pretty severe punishments for treason. nothing personal but dictators are just bad news for everyone. even themselves.
Show me where I showed any desensitized mindset for any dictator. (Besides the definition of dictator being bad is used very loosely a lot of time-another debate)
All I said the assaisination is wrong. Indiscriminate killing like this is a crime. Crime against humanity.
Any dictator or political opponent deserves lawful process to be punished, and not a cowardly act like this.
Anyone who agrees to a crime like this is crime supporter.
Re: Who Killed Zia?
Who knows maybe he was depressed & suicidal? 
Re: Who Killed Zia?
Personally I blame ZA Bhutto the most as even though the bengalis had a majority of the votes ZA Bhutto was not prepared to let them form a government. He wanted to be the ruler even at the expensive of Pakistan, he put himself first.
You should re-read the history. That was one of the many points that cause the break up, but it all started way back in 1951 & continue on during AK rules and alienation of Bengalis that caused eventual split up. Oh, and, ZAB was product of military rule, too.
Re: Who Killed Zia?
You should re-read the history. That was one of the many points that cause the break up, but it all started way back in 1951 & continue on during AK rules and alienation of Bengalis that caused eventual split up. Oh, and, ZAB was product of military rule, too.
Nusrat Isfahani and Begum Naheed Mirza (wife of Iskandar Mirza) were friends. Hence proved, behind every successful man, there stands a woman :D
Re: Who Killed Zia?
A brutal tyrant who had no respect for rule of law can't be seen as a victim under same law, can he?
Law is law, and needs to be the same for everyone
Re: Who Killed Zia?
Law is law, and needs to be the same for everyone
Wah!
Exactly.
*"Guilty by association" is very dangerous and wrongful philosophy. *
Moreover, being at a wrong place, on wrong time, is considered a trivial matter and is ignored as long as one or few bad people get killed. People tend to ignore the innocent bystanders. :(
Re: Who Killed Zia?
True, but there has to be a reason why it must be known? It most cases it has to with bringing criminal to justice (in criminal cases), but in this case I could careless.
[quote]
Law is law, and needs to be the same for everyone
[/QUOTE]
Yes, in ideal situation Bashar Al-assad, Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, Gadaffi, etc., should've all faced justice in a court of law, but we don't live in ideal world. Sometime bad men just have to go...w/o miranda rights & thats ok with me.
Re: Who Killed Zia?
I don't like him..
Re: Who Killed Zia?
True, but there has to be a reason why it must be known? It most cases it has to with bringing criminal to justice (in criminal cases), but in this case I could careless.
Yes, in ideal situation Bashar Al-assad, Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, Gadaffi, etc., should've all faced justice in a court of law, but we don't live in ideal world. Sometime bad men just have to go...w/o miranda rights & thats ok with me.
from a criminal POV, in this case you could care less, but I doubt the family of the pilots would have the same view point, and last I checked, there was nothing that would equate those guys just doing their job to be equal to a gaddafi, saddam or pol pot (sadly bashar is still around)
rest is more of a historical information for one, and understanding roles of others for another..what is there was an internal power play..by lets say someone like aslam beg..one pathetic crook in a conspiracy to kill another one, would you not like to know? why did they take the step, on whose orders, to serve what purpose.
If we use personal views about individuals, then some may say they dont care if there is every any followup to the killing of liaquat, hanging of zulfiqar, shooting of benazir either. But facts need to come out.
Re: Who Killed Zia?
Glad that world does not revolve around what you care or not. Wishing for justice does not equate asking for ideal world.
You do realize the examples you provided do not relate to the discussion also.
Al-Asad is alive.
Saddam hussain had to go through ‘legal’ process (yes, in order to bring him down a whole lot of innocent people died but he was not assaisinated), Pol Pot died in bed of heart attack(?) and Gaddafi was not really assisinated. He was hunted till died. None of these died under mysterious/questionable circumstances like assasination which Zia went through.
P.S. I am surprised the values and ideas of someone who supposedly is related to law system. Or is that my wrong assumption? 
Re: Who Killed Zia?
from a criminal POV, in this case you could care less, but I doubt the family of the pilots would have the same view point, and last I checked, there was nothing that would equate those guys just doing their job to be equal to a gaddafi, saddam or pol pot (sadly bashar is still around)
Fair enough, but that is collateral damage. If you hang out with bad people...bad things will happen to you. And how is this any diff than killing Osama bin Laden along with his body guards and the cook? The point is, if Zia (or Mush for that matter) was brought to justice in court of law for treason that would have been ideal thing to do, but if he was killed that is ok, too. I only wish had he been taken out earlier the damage to the nation may not have been this bad & next 5 generations would not have to pay for Zia's crimes.
Re: Who Killed Zia?
Fair enough, but that is collateral damage. If you hang out with bad people...bad things will happen to you. And how is this any diff than killing Osama bin Laden along with his body guards and the cook? The point is, if Zia (or Mush for that matter) was brought to justice in court of law for treason that would have been ideal thing to do, but if he was killed that is ok, too. I only wish had he been taken out earlier the damage to the nation may not have been this bad & next 5 generations would not have to pay for Zia's crimes.
Zia was one of the best leader this country has ever got damaged to this nation was caused by corrupt BB and Nawaz not zia and people are paying for their own crimes not what Zia did Zia was the one who saved Pakistan from USSR Zia was the one who speed ed up our Nuclear Program and Zia is the one who brought people close to Islam the major blunder he made was never implemented Islam completely other wise far better than all the leaders we have ever got
Re: Who Killed Zia?
Fair enough, but that is collateral damage. If you hang out with bad people.........
Who decides if someone is 'bad' and deserves to be killed without a trial (except you, taliban and Queen of Hearts maybe)?
Re: Who Killed Zia?
Zia was one of the best leader this country has ever got
Allah Khair karey :(
Now to the Topic under discussion ..... regardless how bad/good he is perceived to be ..... The Truths needs to come out and to be honest i don't have any hope that it will happen anytime soon
Many things point to an inside job (Army with external help probably) ..... but then the ultimate question in this equation is "cui bono"
Re: Who Killed Zia?
Who decides if someone is 'bad' and deserves to be killed without a trial (except you, taliban and Queen of Hearts maybe)?
If you want to volunteer to bring bad people to justice by all means do. And if you think Zia was good for Pakistan, than you're entitled to your opinion & we just have to disagree on that. Just like you, I'm entitled to my opinion, and in my OPINION he got what he deserved. The end.