Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

[Das_Reich]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@desidudecool

well the rebels who killed osman wanted hazrat ali to be the caliph,they were staunch supporters of him.some muslims believe that hazrat was not supporting these rebels and had nothing to do with osman's murder.i think he was indirectly supporting them and wanted hazrat osman to be removed.Hazrat Ayesha believed that and fought a war with hazrat ali.

congratulations! atleast you are honest .....you might have joined the camel worshippers ....I on the other hand would have stayed with ameerulmomineen

[Crescent]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

The Rebels were the main source of the divide...and instigated civil war. Even in the battle of the camel, it was they who attacked the two camps to start the war in the first place.

But honestly is all this worth discussing and fighting over? I doubt Allah will ask us on the day of the judgement, "did you make sure those shias on the forum got the right message? Or did you make sure you convinced the sunnis on gupshup well enough about kerbala?"

I highly doubt jannah is waiting only for the winner of this argument.

[desidudecool]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@Das Reich

congratulations! atleast you are honest .....you might have joined the camel worshippers ....I on the other hand would have stayed with ameerulmomineen

its pretty obvious..why would hazrat ali not punish the murderers of hazrat osman then after becoming caliph?

[Das_Reich]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

^ obviously then you should not accept him as the fourth caliph as he was indirectly implicated in killing of uthman

[desidudecool]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

^ don't worry about me. a lot of people did'nt accept him as caliph at that time thats what lead to civil war and the division between shiahs and sunnis and that to this day continues.thats why you see Saudis financing the insurgents in iraq cause they don't want to see shiahs take over there...they were financing saddam too before the first gulf war for that very reason

[Sheraz_CT]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@Crescent_

The Rebels were the main source of the divide...and instigated civil war. Even in the battle of the camel, it was they who attacked the two camps to start the war in the first place.

But honestly is all this worth discussing and fighting over? I doubt Allah will ask us on the day of the judgement, "did you make sure those shias on the forum got the right message? Or did you make sure you convinced the sunnis on gupshup well enough about kerbala?"

I highly doubt jannah is waiting only for the winner of this argument.

let me tell you this..no one is trying to convince sunnis..some of us are just replying to the garbage orgional poster pasted..waisay bhi bhains k aagay been bajanay say kuch hota nahi

shias don't worry about jannat...the leaders of jannat are their Imams (a.s.)..but let me tell you that we dont love our Imams (a.s.) because we are greedy of jannat...its because they deserved to be loved

[Das_Reich]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@desidudecool[QUOTE

]^ don't worry about me. a lot of people did'nt accept him as caliph at that time thats what lead to civil war and the division between shiahs and sunnis and that to this day continues

but todays sunnis all accept him as the caliph

[QUOTE]

.thats why you see Saudis financing the insurgents in iraq cause they don't want to see shiahs take over there...they were financing saddam too before the first gulf war for that very reason

[/QUOTE]

lol you skipped a thousand yrs ....anyways financing a pagan like saddam they helped a man who was a enemy of both shias and sunnis

[Sheraz_CT]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@desidudecool

^ don't worry about me. a lot of people did'nt accept him as caliph at that time thats what lead to civil war and the division between shiahs and sunnis and that to this day continues.thats why you see Saudis financing the insurgents in iraq cause they don't want to see shiahs take over there...they were financing saddam too before the first gulf war for that very reason

Good. so either you are with Imam Ali (a.s.) or his enemies...atleast you are honest unlike so many others

[Marbles]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@desidudecool

The article does not talk about the civil war that followed the brutal death of Hazrat Usman among muslims which goes to the heart of what this division between Shiahs and Sunni is all about.Hazrat Usman was brutally murdered by supporters of Hazrat Ali and his body was not buried for 3 days,and then when they did burry him,they did so in a jewish graveyard,such was the disrespect shown by Hazrat Ali and his supporters towards Hazrat Usman.All of this resulted in the division between Umayyads(descendants of ABu Saffayan,supporters of osman) and supporters of Hazrat Ali which later lead to many wars and the incident of Karabala.

I really wonder when people twist the historical facts and make out of it something which isn't there at the first place. It really amazes me.

You are implying that 'Ali and his supporters were responsible for the murder of Uthman. This accusation has been addressed by 'Ali himself in number of his sermons found in Nehjul Balagha.

Make a list of the names who were against Uthman and who openly called him deviant innovator and a disbeliever. You will find some big names in it. They are not merely 'rebels' as most Sunni books portray them without naming. Among those there were some who were supporters of 'Ali like Muhammad bin Abu Bakr [the son of the first caliph. . . oooppss]. there were some who were not supporters of 'Ali but they wanted to get rid of Uthman due to his policies at large. These people were mainly Egyptians. Among others who vehemently opposed Uthaman was Umm-al-momineen 'Ayesha who said for Uthman that 'this old fool [Na'thal] has become mad, kill him.

'Ali tried to stop them for any such action that would undermine Islamic solidarity. 'Ali frowned and forbade Muhammad bin Abi bakr and he did not participate in the killing. Some of them did not listen. 'Ali sent his sons, Hassan and Hussain to guard the house of Uthman and make sure no one from Banu Hashim or his supporters participate in the killing of Uthman.

You also forgot that when Uthman was threatened, it became evident that Madinites will not spare him. He wrote to Muaviyah and asked him for help to fight the rebellion. Muaviyah got caliph's letter but he did not respond on time. Some historians suggest that Muaviyah was waiting for Uthman to die so that he can assume caliphate.

. . .and then those who instigated the killing of Uthman and waited for the news of the murder of Uthman rose up against 'Ali to seek justice for his blood. Why did they do that? Only because it wasn't in the wildest dreams of Muaviyah and 'Ayesha that 'Ali would become Caliph once Uthman was killed. Muaviyah voted for himself while Bibi 'Ayesha had 2 candidates in mind, one being Zubair bin Al-awwam who also rebelled against 'Ali in Jamal.

Wasslam

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@desidudecool

^ don't worry about me. a lot of people did'nt accept him as caliph at that time thats what lead to civil war and the division between shiahs and sunnis and that to this day continues.thats why you see Saudis financing the insurgents in iraq cause they don't want to see shiahs take over there...they were financing saddam too before the first gulf war for that very reason

Now this were people go completely wrong. First, what I am going to state is out of topic.

The complete theory about Saudis financing the sunnis is wrong. Saudis never bothered about Shias and Sunnis, but the Saudis were more interested to become regional super power.

Indirectly the only other competitor was Iran, and had to economically break them down, in between the scape goat was Saddam hussain.

Well, even after this we argue that the Saudis wanted Shia-sunni massacre then why did the Saudi include Bahrain in the GCC equivalent to EU and NAFTA, which has a majority Shia and secondly this reason might seen lame, why did the Saudi allow the Shias to enter Makkah if they are blood thirsty about the shias.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@Das Reich

[quote=desidudecool but todays sunnis all accept him as the caliph

lol you skipped a thousand yrs ....anyways financing a pagan like saddam they helped a man who was a enemy of both shias and sunnis

I thought he said the shahada before he died, i h ope you get my drift rest is left to you.

[Marbles]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@desidudecool

its pretty obvious..why would hazrat ali not punish the murderers of hazrat osman then after becoming caliph?

How could have he punished the instigators when they were fighting against him in Siffin and Jamal?

[teaser]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@desidudecool

its pretty obvious..why would hazrat ali not punish the murderers of hazrat osman then after becoming caliph?

Bro I am just asking, do you know the history? Do you know if Hazrat Ali (r.a.) tried to punish the murder of Hazrat Usman (r.a.) or if he really did punished them?

Thanks.

[khanbabax]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

@desidudecool

The article does not talk about the civil war that followed the brutal death of Hazrat Usman among muslims which goes to the heart of what this division between Shiahs and Sunni is all about.Hazrat Usman was brutally murdered by supporters of Hazrat Ali and his body was not buried for 3 days,and then when they did burry him,they did so in a jewish graveyard,such was the disrespect shown by Hazrat Ali and his supporters towards Hazrat Usman.All of this resulted in the division between Umayyads(descendants of ABu Saffayan,supporters of osman) and supporters of Hazrat Ali which later lead to many wars and the incident of Karabala.

Hazrat Usman r.a was murdered by the same people who later on formed Shiaism, they people were didnt care about Hazrat Ali r.a. but they used his camp for protection.

[system]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

No brother Das reich , ali(ra) was never is usman(ra) murder and we all accept himas one of the greatest sahaba and 4 caliphs.......
regarding not punishment of usman(ra) murderes , it was his political "majboorian" and sabaites conspiracies as throwing arrows in jamal battle which prevented ali(ra) to do this....

[khanbabax]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

Difference between Hazrat Ali r.a and Hazrat Muawiya was about the murderers of Hazrat Usman r.a. Hazrat Usman's killer somehow enterted the army of Hazrat Ali r.a in the name of love. Hazrat Muawiya said we should punish these people right away, since he was also close relative to Hazrat Usman r.a. Hazrat Ali r.a said, first priority is to bring peace and calm to the Khilafat and then I will hunt down the killers as for now I dont have much control over these people. So the killers of Hazrat Usman r.a were same people who later on formed Shiaism, they were not the lovers of Ahl Bayt. These same munafiqs were behind the Battle of Jamal and Battle of Sifeen.

[system]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

This thing i agree with brother khanbabax that matam was started by "Mohiban-e-Ali " as a repentance , but personally , i think , now , most shia do it as a sign of grief........

[system]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

Quote from Marble:
Like the letter of Imam Ali to Muaviyah in Nehaj where he uses his own argument to rebuke him and to make him accept his caliphate. Shia opponents have used that letter to prove the legitimacy of first three governments via Ali's own words which is completely opposite of what Ali said in that letter. Anyways.

Reply :
Brother , i respect very much any religion but plz. do not tell me about "Legitimacy" of 3 caliphs as in nehjul balagha.......
"Legitimacy" , do you know the meaning of this word...........
Ali(ra) , the lion of God , most important member of 3 Great caliph , served as acting caliph when farooq(ra) , the great went to conquer jerusalem ..........., now you are here to tell us about thier "Legitimacy".........Or use the same old "formula" of
"Taqiyya".......
Should i tell you the history of nehul balaga , which false attributions to the lion of god........

[system]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

Is Jibreel ever revealed with the saying that "Caliphate is a "possession" of Ahle bait " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or prophet(pbuh) ever said this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOu think our prophet (pbuh) was unjust..............

rather he said "Caliphate will be from quraish as all accept their authority ".......
So , with due respect, are first 3 caliphs not from quraish !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you know thier virtues and maqam-o-martaba that you are questioning about thier legitimacy................

and plz . do not tell us " fairy tale " of Ghadeer Khum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[system]

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

I am not dis-respecting ahle bait , we all love them but this love does not means that i will cross the limits.................

Is , in world , the "Piousness" is the "ONLY" criteria for a ruler , no other qualities are judged ......

No doubt about that ahle bait are the most pious ( excluding first 3 caliphs as they were the most after prophet(pbuh) ) but this piousness is only "thing" require to rule the 40 lakh sq.miles vast country.......

Did umar(ra) made muavia(ra) the governer of syria that he was the pioust of all sahabas at that time.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No political vision , tadabuur , fiqar , atitude , political game authority needed , and let me allow to say , muavia(ra) was among the 3 greatest statemen of Arabia of all times.........
No doubt that , ali(ra) was more on Haq then muavia(ra) , muavia(ra) had a "igtihadi" mistake and he never used caliph word for himself in a life of ali(ra) but wanted only murderers of usman(ra) due to tribal revenge of ummayyad to take ................

And further more , hadees said thet if a habshi ghulam will be your caliph and let you according to quran and sunnah , obey him"
now , obeying of habshi ghulam is allowed which is not from "banu hashim" but the obeying of 3 qurashi caliphs from" shurafa-i-arabs" is "IL_Legitimate" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brother , believe me , i am not criticizing you, but your comments make me laugh .....................................