Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

Introduction
The Shia comemmorate the Day of Ashura with great fanfare. What is strange is that although they spend so much energy and passion in taking out parades of people who do Matam, few Shia actually spend time to investigate what is the origin of the Shia rituals of Matam. A simple investigation in the origins of this ritual will shock the Shia.
Christmas
It seems that there is an underlying theme in humans: they will follow the way of their forefathers without taking even a few minutes to question these beliefs and practises. Just like the Shia do not take the time and energy to investigate the rituals of Matam, the Christians likewise celebrate Christmas with little investigation into the origins of this religious holiday.
For the Christians, the most important day of the year is Christmas in which supposedly they celebrate the birth of Jesus. Worldwide, hundreds of thousands of people celebrate this religious holiday. The irony of Christmas is that its origins are actually pagan, and completely antithetical to Jesus who deplored pagan practises.
Jesus was not born in the winter, and therefore, it is odd that Christians celebrate Jesus’s birthday on December 25th. December was actually the time in which the pagans used to celebrate the winter solstice. A solstice is either of the two times of the year when the sun is at its greatest distance from the equator. It was a time of great importance for the pagans, who attributed special powers to the sun. During the solstice, the pagans would hold various celebrations, including Saturnalia, Yule, and the festival of Sol Invictus (the “unconquered sun”).
The pagan populations of Europe did not want to abandon these celebrations; therefore, the Christian Church decided to adopt these holidays instead of alienating these potential converts. Saturnalia, which took place December 17-23, was modified and became the “twelve days of Christmas.” Yule, which took place on December 25th, became Christmas. In fact, “Yule” and “Yuletide” are the archaic terms for Christmas, and this is the meaning of “Yule” in both the full Oxford English Dictionary and the Concise Oxford Dictionary. In many foreign languages, people still use the word “Yule” as opposed to Christmas. Another important pagan holiday held on December 25th was the festival of Sol Invictus.
The underlying point is that the Christian Church decided to adopt various pagan holidays which all were celebrated around the time of the winter solstice. And in fact, these pagan holidays revolved around festivities that involved sexual lewdness, drunken orgies, and gambling. This is the pagan and irreligious origin of Christmas.
Today, “good” Christians celebrate Christmas. But in ancient times, good Christians deemed it as a reversion to paganism and condemned Christmas as heresy. In fact, Origen–considered to be one of the early fathers of the Christian Church–condemned celebrating the birthday of Jesus as a pagan concept. Christmas was in fact officially banned by the church in 1647. Although this ban was later over-turned, various times in history would religious Christians remind their bretheren that the holiday was of pagan–and not Christian–origins. The Puritans of New England outlawed Christmas, and this ban remained in effect from 1659-1681.
The ritual of decorating one’s house with a Christmas tree is also from pagan origins. The pagan Romans would do this to celebrate the holiday of Saturnalia, again in honor of the pagan god Saturn. Cutting down trees and decorating them is actually forbidden as pagan in the Bible (Jeremiah, 10:2-4). Other Christmas rituals such as mistle-toe, logs, etc are also from pagan origins.
**Wikipedia Encyclopedia **says
“There was some dispute about the proper date of the birth of Christ and not everyone agrees even to this day. It was not until A.D. 350, that December 25 was declared the official date for celebrating Christmas by Pope Julius I. When the fathers of the church decided to settle upon a date to celebrate the event, they wisely chose the day of the winter solstice, since it coincided with some rival religions’ celebrations and the rebirth of the sun (see Year of the Sun Calendar), symbolized by bon-fires and yule logs. December 25 was a festival long before the conversion of the Germanic peoples to Christianity, it seemed fitting that the time of their winter festival would also be the time to celebrate the birth of Christ…
The popularity of Christmas can be better understood if it is viewed as a form of winter celebration. Agricultural societies typically hold their most important festival in winter since there is less need of farm work at this time.
The Romans had a winter celebration known as Saturnalia. This festival was originally held on December 17 and honored Saturn, a god of agriculture. It recalled the “golden age” when Saturn ruled. In imperial times, Saturnalia was extended to seven days (December 17-23). Combined with festivals both before and after, the result was an extended winter holiday season. Business was postponed and even slaves feasted. There was drinking, gambling and singing naked. It was the “best of days,” according to the poet Catullus.[7] With the coming of Christianity, Italy’s Saturnalian traditions were attached to Advent (the forty days before Christmas). Around the 12th century, these traditions transferred again to the “twelve days of Christmas” (i.e. Christmas to Epiphany).[6]
Northern Europe was the last part to Christianize, and its pagan celebrations had a major influence on Christmas. Scandinavians still call Christmas Jul (Yule), originally the name of a twelve-day pre-Christian winter festival. Logs were lit to honor Thor, the god of thunder, hence the “Yule log.” In Germany, the equivalent holiday is called Mitwinternacht (mid-winter night). There are also twelve Rauhnächte (harsh or wild nights).[8]
…In 274, Emperor Aurelian designated December 25 as the festival of Sol Invictus (the “unconquered sun”). Aurelian may have chosen this date because the solstice was considered the birthday of Mithras, a syncretic god of Persian origin. Mithras is often identified with Sol Invictus, although Sol was originally a separate Syrian god…
In 245, the theologian Origen denounced the idea of celebrating the birthday of Jesus “as if he were a king pharaoh.” Only sinners, not saints, celebrate their birthdays, Origen contended…
During the Reformation, Protestants condemned Christmas celebration as “trappings of popery” and the “rags of the Beast”. The Catholic Church responded by promoting the festival in a more religiously oriented form. When a Puritan parliament triumphed over the King Charles I of England (1644), Christmas was officially banned (1647)…
Various writers of the time condemn caroling as lewd, the dancing may have got out of hand now and then (harking back to the traditions of Saturnalia and Yule).[6] “Misrule” — drunkenness, promiscuity, gambling — was an important aspect of the festival. In England, gifts were exchanged on New Year’s Day, and there was special Christmas ale.[6]
[6] Murray, Alexander, “Medieval Christmas”, History Today, December 1986, 36 (12), pp. 31 - 39.
[8] Reichmann, Ruth, “Christmas”.
[RIGHT]source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas” [/RIGHT]

The Shia Rituals of Ashura
It is strange that so many millions of Christians can be really so ignorant that they celebrate something in the name of Jesus even though Jesus himself would condemn it as pagan. If these Christians would simply reflect on history, they would find out how their whole religion is based on the antithesis of the very man they claim to follow.
This irony of Christmas is paralled by the irony of Ashura, the Shia holiday. Firstly, the Shia do not realize that it was the Shia themselves who were responsible for the death of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). Furthermore, the Shia of today don’t realize that the rituals that they do during Ashura were invented by the very people who were responsible for the murder of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). Ashura is probably the most important day of the year for the Shia, much like Christmas is for the Christian. If the Shia minions actually stopped to reflect on the origins of this Shia “holiday”, they would realize the baseness of their entire religion which is based on the very antithesis of the very group (i.e. Ahlel Bayt) that they claim to follow.
The Story of Karbala
During his Caliphate, Ali (رضّى الله عنه) shifted the Caliphate from Medinah to Kufa in Iraq. The Kuffans were staunch Partisans of Ali (Shia’t Ali). The Jew Abdullah Ibn Saba found the Kuffans to be very receptive to his claims that Ali was divinely appointed by Allah, and his followers became the Saba’ites. When the Shia’t Ali met the Shia’t Muawiyyah on the battlefield, Muawiyyah (رضّى الله عنه) convinced Ali (رضّى الله عنه) to hold a cease-fire and to use arbitration to decide who will be the Caliph. Ali (رضّى الله عنه) agreed to arbitration. This angered the Kuffan Saba’ites because they held the erroneous belief that Ali had been divinely appointed by Allah, so they believed that Ali (رضّى الله عنه) was going against the will of Allah by agreeing to arbitration. In their minds, there could be no negotiation on a matter that was decreed by Allah. Some of these Kuffan Saba’ites rebelled against Ali (رضّى الله عنه), turning on him and calling him an apostate. These people would be known as Kharajites, and they would eventually assasinate their leader Ali (رضّى الله عنه), the same leader they had once claimed so much love for.
As for the remaining Kuffan Shias who did not become Kharajites, they would later join the forces of Hasan (رضّى الله عنه). However, Hasan (رضّى الله عنه) did not trust these Shia as they were very disloyal. In his book al-Ihtijâj, the prominent Shia author Abu Mansur at-Tabarsi has preserved the following remark of Hasan (رضّى الله عنه):
“By Allah, I think Muawiyyah would be better for me than these people who claim that they are my Shia.” [Abû Mansûr at-Tabarsî, al-Ihtijâj vol. 2 p. 290-291 , Mu’assasat al-A‘lamî, Beirut 1989]
Distrusting his Shia, Hasan (رضّى الله عنه) made peace with Muawiyyah (رضّى الله عنه) and gave him the Caliphate, so long as Muawiyyah (رضّى الله عنه) promised that Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) would be made Caliph after Muawiyyah’s death (رضّى الله عنه). Hussain’s Shia protested at this, and Hasan (رضّى الله عنه)’s reply is preserved in the most important of the Shia books of Hadith, Al-Kafi:
“By Allah, I handed over power to him for no reason other than the fact that I could not find any supporters. Had I found supporters I would have fought him day and night until Allah decides between us. But I know the people of Kufa. I have experience of them. The bad ones of them are no good to me. They have no loyalty, nor any integrity in word or deed. They are in disagreement. They claim that their hearts are with us, but their swords are drawn against us.” [Al-Kafi, vol. 8 p. 288]
After this reconciliation took place between Hasan (رضّى الله عنه) and Muawiyyah (رضّى الله عنه), the Shia’t Ali remained in Kufa. After the death of Ali (رضّى الله عنه), the ranks of the Saba’ites and their sympathizers amongst the Shia’t Ali increased.
When Muawiyyah (رضّى الله عنه) died, however, his son Yezid declared himself the new Caliph, in violation of the agreement settled with Hasan (رضّى الله عنه) which stated that Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) would be Caliph. This angered the Shias of Kufa. So it was that in Ramadan 60 A.H. that the Kuffans sent letter after letter from Kufa to Mecca where Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) was staying after his flight from Medinah. The Kuffans assured Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) of their loyalty and allegiance to him; they had not accepted Yezid as leader whom they resented. On certain days, there would be as many as 600 letters accompanied by messengers describing the overwhelming support of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) in Kufa.
Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) decided to send his cousin Muslim Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه) to investigate the situation in Kufa. Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه) arrived in Dhul Qada where he stayed with Ibn Awsajah al-Asadi. The Kuffans met Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه) and pledged the support of 12,000 Shia’t Ali of Kufa. They promised to fight with and to protect Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) with their lives and all they possessed. When the number who pledged support rose to 18,000 Kufans, Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه) felt confident enough to dispatch a messenger to Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) informing him of the bayat (oath of allegiance) of the Kuffans, and urged him to proceed from Mecca and relocate his base to Kufa. So Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) and his near ones began the trek to Kufa.
Rumors of what was happening in Kufa soon reached Yezid in Damascus. He dispatched Ubaydullah ibn Ziyad with 17 men to find Muslim Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه) and kill him. When Ubaydullah arrived in Kufa, Muslim Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه) called the Kuffans to defend him. It was at this moment of need that the Shia of Kufa deserted Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه), fearful of Ubaydullah’s threats. Muslim Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه) hid from Ubaydullah in the house of an old woman. The old woman’s son, a part of the Shia’t Ali, notified Ubaydullah of Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه)’s location, hopeful that this act would prevent Yezid from punishing Kufa. Based on this act of treachory, the Shia’t Ali left Muslim Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه) to be captured by Ubaydullah.
Later that day–the Day of Arafah, the 9th of Dhul Hijjah–Muslim ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه) was taken up to the highest ramparts of the fort. His last words before being executed were:
“O Allah, You be the Judge between us and our people; they deceived us and deserted us.”
The Shia of Kufa witnessed his execution, and not a single one of them went to the aid of Hussain’s cousin. It is important to remember that only 17 men were with Ubaydullah, whereas there were 18,000 Shia of Kufa who had pledged Bayat to Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) in front of Muslim Ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه). How could it be that 18,000 men could not stop 17 men from slaughtering the very man they had just pledged support to? Such was the treachory of the Shia of Kufa.
Meanwhile, Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) had dispatched a mesenger by the name of Qais ibn Mushir to inform the Kuffans of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه)’s arrival. The messenger was captured by Ubaydullah, who ordered him to mount the walls of the fort and publically curse Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) and his father. Instead, Qais ibn Mushir praised Ali (رضّى الله عنه) and Hussain (رضّى الله عنه), telling the Shia of Kufa that Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) was on his way, and he exhorted them to defend him. Upon that, Qais ibn Mushir was executed. Yet another representative of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) had been killed by 18 men who met no ressistance from the 18,000 Shia of Kufa. A ratio of 1,000 Kufans to each of Yezid’s men.
Yezid thereupon dispatched 4,000 soldiers to intercept Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). These 4,000 soldiers were actually on their way to fight the Daylamites, but Yezid re-routed them to Karbala. These 4,000 soldiers passed through Kufa. The Kuffans witnessed the departure of this force from Kufa with their own eyes, full well knowing they were headed to Karbala to intercept Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). This would be the Kuffans’ last chance to honor the oaths of allegiance to Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) which they had taken upon the hands of his cousin Muslim ibn Aqil (رضّى الله عنه). This was the final opportunity to rush to the side of the grandson of the Prophet and protect the Ahlel Bayt. It was after all the invitations and assurances of support from the Shia of Kufa that encouraged Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) to abandon the safety of Mecca for Kufa. But once again faithfulness, courage and commitment was found lacking in the Shia of Kufa. Only a handful emerged to join Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) at Karbala. Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) would comment:
“Our Shia have deserted us.”
The Shia of Kufa outnumbered Yezid’s men 18,000 to 4,000. Actually, the number was greater than 18,000; 18,000 was simply the number of men who had pledged Bayat (oath of allegiance) to protect Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). Had they wanted to, the Shia of Kufa could have defeated Yezid’s men and protected Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). But instead, they did nothing but watch from afar with cowardice. The Shia of today will eulogize this day and talk about how 71 men fought against 4,000 of Yezid’s troops. Where did the other 18,000 go?
Al-Tawwabun (The Penitents)
Four years after the massacre of Karbala, the Shia of Kufa attempted to make ammends for their desertion of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). They called themselves the Al-Tawwabun, which translates to “the Penitents.” This group went to Karbala to comemmorate Hussain (رضّى الله عنه), and here it was that they began Matam, with loud mourning, lamenting, and self-flagellation. These Tawwabun hit themselves to punish themselves for the cowardice that they had shown that led to their Imam’s death just four years earlier. This is the origin of the Shia ritual of Matam. It is altogether amusing how the Shia never really wonder where this barbaric custom started from or why it started in the first place. Little do they know that it is a testament to this day of how they killed their own Imam, and how their whole religion is centered around a false commitment to the Ahlel Bayt.
One More Act of Shia Treachoury
Karbala was not to be the last act of treason by the Shia against the Ahlel Bayt. Sixty year later, the grandson of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه), namely Zayd ibn Ali ibn Hussain (رضّى الله عنه), led an uprising against the Umayyad ruler Hisham ibn Abd al-Malik. Zayd (رضّى الله عنه) recieved the *Bayat *(oath of allegiance) of over 40,000 men, of which 15,000 were from the same Kufa that deserted his grandfather. Just before the battle started, all but a few hundred men deserted Zayd (رضّى الله عنه) en masse. On the departure of the defectors, Zayd (رضّى الله عنه) remarked:
“I am afraid they have done unto me as they did to Hussain (رضّى الله عنه).”
Zayd (رضّى الله عنه) and his little army fought bravely and attained martyrdom. Thus, on Wednesday the 1st of Safar 122 AH, another member of the Ahlel Bayt fell victim to the treachery of the Shia of Kufa.
Conclusion
To this day, the Shia still commemorate Ashura by doing Matam (self-flagellation). This ritual was passed down the generations by the Al-Tawwabun (the Penitents) showing us that the Shia of today originate from the same Shia of Kufa who betrayed Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). The very reason that the Shia beat themselves is to punish themselves for this betrayal of the Ahlel Bayt.
The Shia betrayed Ali (رضّى الله عنه), Hasan (رضّى الله عنه), Hussain (رضّى الله عنه), and Zayd ibn Ali ibn Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). The irony is not lost that the Shia claim to be lovers of the Ahlel Bayt and yet historically they have betrayed them and lead to the deaths of Ali (رضّى الله عنه), Hussain (رضّى الله عنه), and Hussain’s grandson (رضّى الله عنه).

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

Excellent post.....And so true ......
Yes history tells truth and truth is "Bitter" but be courageous to accept its "Bitterness"............

"Kufiu La Yufi "

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

If I go on to elaborate each and every point in this "scholarly" article, it would take me hours to do so. The result will be in vain since the original poster will not give it a second thought like in the same way he didn't give a single thought to the original article. Prolly he found this article somewhere and with a couple of mouse clicks, pinned it into this forum.

Simply stating, all those who claim that Imam Hussain was killed by Shia, they need to read their own books, read analyses of the events of Karbala written by their own scholars, of past and present eras. The most imporatnt is to remove the confusion over the use of word SHIA in history. Even in the Quran, Prophet Ibrahim is called Shia whereas on another occasion some people are referred to as Shia of Satan and are cursed.

Secondly, it is vital to identify those who WERE with Ahl-e-bait and who WEREN'T. All who were are Shia and those who weren't can't be deemed as Shia in todays sense of the word when it is used for people who deem Imams to be the leaders of the Ummah after the Prophet] even if they claim to be.

If you succeed in solving this bit, you become clear in your understanding of historical and present day Shia and their opponents.

Now just a few lines on an extraordinary conclusion we have there to read:

It is a universal law that rubbish in = rubbish out, and it exactly fits to the conclusion.

[quote]
CONCLUSION:

To this day, the Shia still commemorate Ashura by doing Matam (self-flagellation). The very reason that the Shia beat themselves is to punish themselves for this betrayal of the Ahlel Bayt.
[/quote]

Who told this insane writer that Shia do matam out of guilt of what their forefathers did? [which they didn't] It is simply a big fat lie. Read any Shia book, listen to their scholars or ask any learned person why they do matam and they will tell you WHY they do matam.

[quote]
This ritual was passed down the generations by the Al-Tawwabun (the Penitents) showing us that the Shia of today originate from the same Shia of Kufa who betrayed Hussain (رضّى الله عنه).
[/quote]

If someone knows a little bit of history, it is not difficult to find out that who started it and when did they start it.

The first people on earth to commemorate the Ashura and do matam were the household of Imam Hussain themselves, his kith and kin, his sister and son. NOW, who dare say that Imam Hussain was killed by his own sister, son, brothers?

[quote]
The Shia betrayed Ali (رضّى الله عنه), Hasan (رضّى الله عنه), Hussain (رضّى الله عنه), and Zayd ibn Ali ibn Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). The irony is not lost that the Shia claim to be lovers of the Ahlel Bayt and yet historically they have betrayed them and lead to the deaths of Ali (رضّى الله عنه), Hussain (رضّى الله عنه), and Hussain’s grandson (رضّى الله عنه).
[/quote]

Hang on for a minute.

For the sake of argument, even If I agree that Shia betrayed Ahl-e-bait then I have question that what the hell were Sunnis doing at that time when Ali was combating Fitnah of Muwaviyah and 'Ayesha, when Khalifat was adbucted by the son of Abu Sufyan, only to turn it into long lasting unislamic monarchy which laid the basis of Islam coated Arab Imperialism, when Imam Hussain was brutally martyred in Karbala with only 70-100 followers? Where were Ahl-e-Sunnah at that time? Where were they when Zayd bin Ali bin Hussain rose against the Ummayyad for Jihad?

D'you want a hint?

On another note, it was an extremely lame attempt on the writer's part to equate Ashura and Muharram processions with Christmas. There is no resemblance whatsoever as to their historical origin or practices. Ashura and matam on Imam Hussain or anything similar to it isn't pagan at all. It came into affect with the martyrdom of Imam Hussain. If you are really keen to find out pagan practices in Islam I finish my letter with a point that WHAT IF someone says that HAJJ, one of the pillars of the faith, was a pagan ritual. It was there before Shariah when pagans use to shave their heads, get naked, dance and circumambulate around Kaba. It was islamised by the Prophet.

D'you want a hint?

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

Bro I suggest that first taste history. . .and then talk about its bitterness.

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

for sake of argumnet, also tell us where were the rest of the ahl-e-bait when Hussain (ra) was martyred????
for example, where was the cousin of the Prophet (saw), abdullah bin abbas (ra), why did he not come with Hussain (ra)????

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

and a note to the auhor of the article....
Hussain (ra) cud not have been killed by shiaas, cuz at that time there were no shiaas, this "political" group came into existence later in time and used the name of ahl-e-bait for political gain....
just like the abbasi khalifas, who used their family relation to the Prophet (saw) to snatch the rule from the ummayyads, and treated the ahl-e-bait worse than even the umayyads had once they gained power....

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

Marbles, I was expecting a better reply. By opening any history book, this is what I find when shia history is mentioned.

But I was expecting you to counter it better, I mean, the article did use sources from Al-Kafi and other shia texts.

And I think the christmas example is mentioned to depict how similar the 'ignornace' i guess is.

Most shias today don't do matam? But I mean, to know its origins is pretty interesting.

I hope you can ask a scholar of the shias, and refute this article with better evidence? I'm waiting, honestly...this is interesting..and I'm only trying to better my understanding.

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

And as for ahle-sunnah...they were on the righteous path? I mean, even Imam Hussein r.a. was opposing a tyrant before he got into power, but he would have accepted Yazid as a caliph If he had known that Yazid was already a caliph. He was only opposing him, because he thought that kuffans didn't want yazid to gain power as he was 'oppressive' so he thought he could stop yazid before he gained the caliphate. However he didn't come to know of Yazid being a Caliph until he was nearing Kufa.

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

Imam Hussain himself left some of his relatives back home in Madina for one reason or the other. His brother Muhammad Hanafiyah, his cousin Abudulla bin Ja'far Tayyar and one of his daughters were all in Madina. Abdullah ibn Abbas was a very old man at that time and he could barely see. Moreover, he wasn't residing in Madina when Imam Hussain left. Prolly, ibn-e-Abbas was in Yemen.

Can you tell me: Where were Abdullah bin Umar and his brothers, Abdullah bin Zubayr AND the son of mujahid-e-akbar, Sa'ad bin Abi Waqas?

If your intention would have been to seek knowledge and better understanding, I might have replied in a different way.

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

[quote]
Secondly, it is vital to identify those who WERE with Ahl-e-bait and who WEREN'T. All who were are Shia and those who weren't can't be deemed as Shia in todays sense of the word when it is used for people who deem Imams to be the leaders of the Ummah after the Prophet] even if they claim to be.
[/quote]

[quote]
so kumayl b ziyad (r) , jabir b abdullah [r] ,abdullah b abbas[r] and the great shaikh ul shia suleiman b sured[ra] , were NOT shias according to you as they were not in karbala ?
plz explain
[/quote]

Someone sent me Private message with my quote and a comment. I thought its better to give a reply here in public.

Bro, when I said that who WERE with Ahl-e-bait and who WEREN'T, I said it in general terms, not refering to any particular event of happening. Rather I'm refering to the attitude and beliefs of Sahaba and then Taba'een at the time of death of the Prophet (pbuh) till Karbala and beyond.

For example: to differentiate, friends of Ali were called Shian-e-Ali while those who were with Muaviyah were termed as Shian-e-Muaviyah. So the question is: which Shia are we talking about? We are talking about those people who believed that Ahl-e-bait were the leaders of Ummah after Prophet and who did not accept anyone as their leader and Imam except Ali [after the Prophet] and that include Prophet's uncle Abbas bin abdul muttalib, hin son Abdullah bin Abbas and his brother Ubaydullah bin Abbas, other bani Hashim, Sulaiman Farsi, Ammar Yasir, Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari and after Karbala, it includes Mukhtar-e-Saqafi and his group. etc etc.

hope i'm clear.

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

Yes I know sometimes people say that ignorant is bliss. . .but not all the time.

Before passing out your judgement, you could have bothered to look at the history of the word Shia in Islamic and historical texts, when it was first used and by whom and for whom it was used. You could also have found out that what type of and how many "Shia" were present at the time of Karbala and before that during Ali's caliphate.

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

The article does not talk about the civil war that followed the brutal death of Hazrat Usman among muslims which goes to the heart of what this division between Shiahs and Sunni is all about.Hazrat Usman was brutally murdered by supporters of Hazrat Ali and his body was not buried for 3 days,and then when they did burry him,they did so in a jewish graveyard,such was the disrespect shown by Hazrat Ali and his supporters towards Hazrat Usman.All of this resulted in the division between Umayyads(descendants of ABu Saffayan,supporters of osman) and supporters of Hazrat Ali which later lead to many wars and the incident of Karabala.

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

^ This is exactly how a person's attitude should be towards acquiring knowledge and proper understanding of islamic history and its troubles. I appreciate that.

Regarding your comment, as you can see that the original poster has copy pasted this article from some anti-Shia website without bothering to mention where he got it from and who is the author of the article. But I might be wrong here. This article could be the poster's own. The ignorance portrayed in this piece of writing is immense. It is hardly a work of any informed person. Moreover, it uses wikipedia as its source which is flawed.

I did not write a structured essay backed with references and citations because: first i'm restricted by time bandits and second: unless the original poster or few people show their sincerity for a fair discussion to know things better, there's no point in digging deep in books to write huge essays and find references.

Regarding consulting any scholar to get more points and references, bro I have got online articles that refute the idea of Shia killing Imam Hussain in detail. I did not copy paste because it would mean that a third person is talking to fourth person and the first two are sitting and doing nothing at all. This is often the case with so called online Sunni-Shia debates, which are often done by novice debaters and less read people.

Wasslam

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

bro marbles ubaydullah b abbass was the one who defected to muaiwyah leaving Qays b sa'd [r] with only 4000 loyal men of the Imam

desicool
if supporters of Ali killed uthman then why do you accept him as the fourth caliph?

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

^ the killers of Uthman (ra) went up high in support of Ali (ra) to save themselves from Ali (ra), so he wud not avenge them for the murder of Uthman (ra)....

it was a political game which worked very well for them and they succeeded in splitting the muslims....

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

well the rebels who killed osman wanted hazrat ali to be the caliph,they were staunch supporters of him.some muslims believe that hazrat was not supporting these rebels and had nothing to do with osman's murder.i think he was indirectly supporting them and wanted hazrat osman to be removed.Hazrat Ayesha believed that and fought a war with hazrat ali.

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

so since the killers went so up high in support of Imam Ali (a.s.) that imam became helpless (baybus) ? nazubillah Imam Ali (a.s.) wasn't just..please stop judging imam Ali (a.s.)

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

so tell us who you think was on the right path..just say it already

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

^ so Ali [as]was wrong in accepting support from "murderers of uthman "

also plz review the origins of kharijites ....this article is misleading
kharijites never said anyone was divinely appointed
they considered umar[r] ,abu bakr[r] as rightful caliphs and Ali[as] as long as he [according to them] worked according to book of Allah ....kharijites were neither interested in the privilged status of either quraish or ahlulbayt

Re: Who killed Hazrat Hussain r.a?

muslims were split right after the death of Prophet Mohummad (pbuh&up)..where one side attended His funeral and other was busy deciding who should be next khalifa