who is the greatest (only from a genuine fast bowling perspective).....waqar or wasim

Since we have some days left before SA series will be on its way, i would like to use this free time to evaluate who is better in both Ws… not to mention that this evaluation should be based on quality of fast bowling as well as the threat they used to pose to the opponent batsmen. The evaluation should not be based upon all rounder qualities or performance as a captain as they r totally different subjects.

No doubt both of them were great…we r so proud of them..

To start the discussion, lets have a look at their record because that would be a best way to compare them from a quantative standpoint first;

Waqar Career Statistics as a bowler only:

TESTS
(including 02/01/2003)
O M R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
Bowling 2704 516 8788 373 23.56 7-76 22 5 43.4 3.25

ONE-DAY INTERNATIONALS
(including 04/03/2003)
O M R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Econ Bowling 2116.2 143 9919 416 23.84 7-36 14 13 30.5 4.68

FIRST-CLASS
(1987/88 - 2003)
O M R W Ave BBI 5w 10w SR Econ
Bowling 6464.2 1209 21143 951 22.23 8-17 63 14 40.7 3.27

LIST A LIMITED OVERS
(1988/89 - 2003)
O M R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Bowling 3286.5 226 15022 671 22.38 7-36 27 17 29.3 4.57

WASIM AKRAM BOWLING RECORDS

TESTS
(including 09/01/2002)
O M R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
Bowling 3771.1 871 9779 414 23.62 7-119 25 5 54.6 2.59

ONE-DAY INTERNATIONALS
(including 04/03/2003)
O M R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Econ
Bowling 3031 238 11812 502 23.52 5-15 17 6 36.2 3.89

FIRST-CLASS
(1984/85 - 2003)
O M R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
Bowling 8379.3 1965 22549 1042 21.64 8-30 70 16 48.2 2.69

LIST A LIMITED OVERS
(1984/85 - 2003)
O M R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Econ
Bowling 4953.1 388 19303 881 21.91 5-10 34 12 33.7 3.89

Well, first in test matches wasim akram bowled almost 3800 overs to get his 414 wickets, taking 5 wickets haul 25 times and 10 wickets in a match for 5 times. wasim average per wicket is 23.56.and he got wicket after every 54 balls with economy rate of 2.59.wut a man he was…

waqar younis bowled 2700 overs in test matches for his 373 wickets taking 5 wickets 22 times and 10 wickets haul 5 times, average per wicket is 23.56 and waqar got wicket after every 42 ball. his econ. rate was 3.25…wow wow wow…man he seems much better…lt really surprised me…lets compare

well test matches comparison indicates that waqar bowled 1100 overs less than wasim but their wicket difference is only 41 wickets…even waqar bowled 1100 overs less than wasim, he has 10 wickets haul same as wasim, 5 times…wasim has better economy rate 2.59 vs waqar 3.25 but wait a sec now…waqar striking rate is much better than wasim…waqar got wicket after every 7 over whereas wasim has to wait 9 overs.

In one day international, we observe the exact same pattern again with waqar bowling 1000 overs less than wasim and a wicket difference of only 85. Even more, waqar has bowled 1000 overs less than wasim but he has taken 4 or more than 4 wickets 27 times where as wasim has done that 23 times…wasim econ. rate is great only 3.90 where as waqar conceded 4.6 runs per over but again waqar has better striking rate…wicket after every 5 over…..

Exact same pattern can be observed in first class cricket too…so based on these results, waqar has a “huge edge” on wasim akram…well that is wut numbers r showing…they have almost same records but waqar has played much less matches to achieve same results….. …in first class cricket waqar has 950 wickets as compared to wasim 1042 but waqar has bowled 2000 overs less than wasim…………..

on analytical side, imran has stated many times that waqar was better learner and fighter than wasim.. actually reverse swing came to its full flow when waqar used it in early 90s…remember wasim was plyin between 84 to 90 but we never heard of any special reverse swing issues but when waqar came into pic. in early 90s whole world got stunned…

well wut do u guys think?

so assuming if wasim had not sidelines him for those 2 years of waqar peak, based on waqar statistics, waqar would have broken all records….don’t u think wasim dis-serviced the country by doing this…

I suppose you do have some good points. Waqar was certainl;y much more destructive in his prime compared to Wasim. It was unfair to have him out at his peak but I dont know who was to blame for that. Still very hard to tell who is the better bowler. Both are equally good. Wasim perhaps is the more intelligent bowler of the two whilst waqar was probably the more destructive in his peak.

Wasim was no doubt a greater bowler. He took wickets when it mattered the most. Though I agree Wasim did wrong by sidelining Waqar but mind you Waqar was not at his prime at that time. Speically in ODI Akram was more effective due to his excpetional skill of controlling run rate even in the last few overs. I would pick Wasim over Waqar anytime.
I dont want to belittle Waqar's achievements either, he is also one of the greatest bowlers ever, who took fast bowling to a whole new level.

wasim could make the ball talk...waqar on the other hand did his talking with shear pace.....i think its really hard to compare the two...in my opinion they were equally as good in their prime....i would take either one of them on my team any day

wasim and waqar were both good bowlers....
waqar cud have been unlucky, but those statistics dont tell u that he was better than wasim....
u cant rely on numbers to say who is better....
we all know there is no one comparable to wasim akram when it comes to fast bowling....
and just for a hint check out shoaib akhtar's statistics....
then dont say he is better than them both....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
wasim and waqar were both good bowlers....
waqar cud have been unlucky, but those statistics dont tell u that he was better than wasim....
u cant rely on numbers to say who is better....
we all know there is no one comparable to wasim akram when it comes to fast bowling....
and just for a hint check out shoaib akhtar's statistics....
then dont say he is better than them both....
[/QUOTE]

my dear friend you got trapped by ur own statement....yes i did check shoaib record and he is not even close to both of them based on statistics.....shoaib hardly compelted his 100 test wickets and poor guy took 26 test matches to do it....well waqar took his 200 wickets in his 39th test match....and shaoib is already 28 yrs old...the guy will be finished in 2 more yrs....i predict that shoaib will never take more than 200 test wickets.....

well, we all agree both Ws were great and probably most deadly pair of fast bowlers....but to say that numbers mean nothing is not understandable.........after all statistics reflect one's performance at ground....where else these numbers come frommm. ...of course from your performance at ground.........i have been following cricket from ealry 80s religiously and feel so sorry that both in terms of number of wickets as well as test runs indians r ahead of us...kapil dev and tendulkar..........well indian batting was always better than us but we always look down india because of their inability to produce fast bowlers but guess wut.....at end of the day our great star wasim akram has less wickets than kapil dev.....and that is wut statistics will tell future generation....so statistics are important.

as a matter of fact i am biggest fan of akram and know him persoanally because of some common friends......but i always hate him for his politics...one purpose of this thread is to show statistically who was better between 90 and 97 and then to point out wasim's another "political crime".......it was waqar's irrepressible performance during early 90s ( remember his performance at surrey county, in sharja and all over the world) that forced wasim to start whole dirty politics......and peak of this drama was when wasim made waqar 12th man in world cup 99.....................................it was such a shame for pakistan...and to say waqar was finished by 99 is bul****....i can again provide statistics to show his numbers after 99...they r far better akram....7 for 37 and then 6 for 26 i guess in same one day series against england all came after 1999.....and he was super fit as compared to wasim....we all hoped that wasim will break kapil record....he was never able to do it and plus he stopped a player from doin it who was equally capable of doing it...anyway, bottom line is we shud not worship anyone blindly and shud also keep an eye on one's bad deeds.........check and balance is imp....

BEST MARKED IN RED

let us compare tests....

Best Bowling:
Wasim: 7/119
Waqar: 7/76
Shoaib: 6/11

STRIKE RATE:
Wasim: 54.6
Waqar: 43.4
Shoaib: 46.9

AVERAGE:
Wasim: 23.62
Waqar: 23.56
Shoaib: 25.60

ECONOMY:
Wasim: 2.59
Waqar: 3.56
Shoaib: 3.27

and then the odi....

Best Bowling:
Wasim: 5/15
Waqar: 7/36
Shoaib: 6/16

STRIKE RATE:
Wasim: 36.2
Waqar: 30.5
Shoaib: 28.2

AVERAGE:
Wasim: 23.52
Waqar: 23.84
Shoaib: 21.48

ECONOMY:
Wasim: 3.89
Waqar: 4.38
Shoaib: 4.56

waqar was way better wen ‘at his peak’.

but dont forget that wasim has always been consistent. Wasim is the guy whos been performing since the beginning with no real form slumps, while waqar… was never the same after his back problems and action change.

they were both greats… but wasim would have my vote. Although if ur talking at their peaks! I,d have waqar in the team if hes bowling at 150 with that deadly yorker. But he really wasnt the same anymore. I can only imagine what wudv happened if waqar was fit in the 92 WC.

Overall… wasim, the guy was a genius. :k:

Same old f** boring topic...guys you need to get over these 2-W's...
..bottom line is the two W's are history..game over!

TALK about two S's now

WAim Akram rules all the way...ok now move on...lets talk abt 2's

better stick to the topic...and lets not drag good-for-nothing shoaib into it...

definitely, both the Ws were and are the best bowling pair.....the wickets combined for both these bowlers are more than combined wickets of any current team (current players only)....

i will still give an edge to wasim, coz despite his health conditions, he played more matches than any other player in the world....for fast bowlers, who wear out very soon, this guy just kept going and going....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
BEST MARKED IN RED

let us compare tests....

Best Bowling:
Wasim: 7/119
Waqar: 7/76
Shoaib: 6/11

STRIKE RATE:
Wasim: 54.6
Waqar: 43.4
Shoaib: 46.9

AVERAGE:
Wasim: 23.62
Waqar: 23.56
Shoaib: 25.60

ECONOMY:
Wasim: 2.59
Waqar: 3.56
Shoaib: 3.27

and then the odi....

Best Bowling:
Wasim: 5/15
Waqar: 7/36
Shoaib: 6/16

STRIKE RATE:
Wasim: 36.2
Waqar: 30.5
Shoaib: 28.2

AVERAGE:
Wasim: 23.52
Waqar: 23.84
Shoaib: 21.48

ECONOMY:
Wasim: 3.89
Waqar: 4.38
Shoaib: 4.56
[/QUOTE]

well wut do u want to discuss abt shoaib and sami...they r just kids.... shoaib is not even close to any of ws.....he has only achieved one third of each of them...actually one fourth...let him prove himself first...he is such a ******* that this summer he used foul language against both Ws when pak team was playin in england.....no respect for anyone......tendulkar taught him a good lesson but he did not learn anything from it.....plus he said he wud have taken much more wickets had he born in aus and wut a concise reply by waqar

" i dont know if it was good for aus cricket but it wud definitly be good for pak cricket had he born in aus"

plus he is chucker and we all know that from inside.....well he was born like this... i dont care he still chucks the ball.....and it gives him an extra edge...he is not clean like imran wasim or waqar so far bowling action is concerned. so there is no need to drag shoaib into this discussion.....thanks

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by phoenixdesi: *
well wut do u want to discuss abt shoaib and sami...they r just kids.... shoaib is not even close to any of ws.....he has only achieved one third of each of them...actually one fourth...let him prove himself first...he is such a *
***** that this summer he used foul language against both Ws when pak team was playin in england.....no respect for anyone......tendulkar taught him a good lesson but he did not learn anything from it.....plus he said he wud have taken much more wickets had he born in aus and wut a concise reply by waqar

" i dont know if it was good for aus cricket but it wud definitly be good for pak cricket had he born in aus"

plus he is chucker and we all know that from inside.....well he was born like this... i dont care he still chucks the ball.....and it gives him an extra edge...he is not clean like imran wasim or waqar so far bowling action is concerned. so there is no need to drag shoaib into this discussion.....thanks
[/QUOTE]

Now you are pressing wrong buttons...

watch out!

People dont forget akram has one Edge over waqar, which is his batting abilities i am sure all the people who are putting Akram ahead of waqar, are kindaa influenced by this factor Which DOES MAKE ARKAM LOOK LIKE A BETTER PLAYER!!
BUT!! as far as fast bowling perspective is concern AKram is far behing Waqar, I am not even talking about the time when waqar was at his best (from Apr. 1990-- Jan 97) But aslo after that period waqar has won more games for Pak with his BOWLING than Akram.
Yes waqar goes for runs because he is more of an, aggrasive of two and he takes more chanses.
But Again Fast bowling Prespective Waqar is far Ahead of Akram.

Lets add to compare the other two great fast bowlers of Pakistan

================================

Originally posted by armughal: *
BEST MARKED IN RED

let us compare tests....

Best Bowling:
Wasim: 7/119
Waqar: 7/76
Shoaib: 6/11
Imran : 8/58
Fazal: 7/42

STRIKE RATE:
Wasim: 54.6
Waqar: 43.4
Shoaib: 46.9
Imran: 53.7
Fazal: 70.7

AVERAGE:
Wasim: 23.62
Waqar: 23.56
Shoaib: 25.60
Imran: 22.81
Fazal: 24.70

ECONOMY:
Wasim: 2.59
Waqar: 3.56
Shoaib: 3.27
Imran: 2.54
Fazal: 2.09

and then the odi....

Best Bowling:
Wasim: 5/15
Waqar: 7/36
Shoaib: 6/16
Imran: 6/14

STRIKE RATE:
Wasim: 36.2
Waqar: 30.5
Shoaib: 28.2
Imran: 40.9

AVERAGE:
Wasim: 23.52
Waqar: 23.84
Shoaib: 21.48
Imran: 26.62

ECONOMY:
Wasim: 3.89
Waqar: 4.38
Shoaib: 4.56
Imran: 3.89

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by analyze it: *
Lets add to compare the other two great fast bowlers of Pakistan

================================

Originally posted by armughal: *
BEST MARKED IN RED

let us compare tests....

Best Bowling:
Wasim: 7/119
Waqar: 7/76
Shoaib: 6/11
Imran : 8/58
Fazal: 7/42

STRIKE RATE:
Wasim: 54.6
Waqar: 43.4
Shoaib: 46.9
Imran: 53.7
Fazal: 70.7

AVERAGE:
Wasim: 23.62
Waqar: 23.56
Shoaib: 25.60
Imran: 22.81
Fazal: 24.70

ECONOMY:
Wasim: 2.59
Waqar: 3.56
Shoaib: 3.27
Imran: 2.54
Fazal: 2.09

and then the odi....

Best Bowling:
Wasim: 5/15
Waqar: 7/36
Shoaib: 6/16
Imran: 6/14

STRIKE RATE:
Wasim: 36.2
Waqar: 30.5
Shoaib: 28.2
Imran: 40.9

AVERAGE:
Wasim: 23.52
Waqar: 23.84
Shoaib: 21.48
Imran: 26.62

ECONOMY:
Wasim: 3.89
Waqar: 4.38
Shoaib: 4.56
Imran: 3.89
[/QUOTE]

thanks for including imran numbers in there too....but i wish u guys have included number of wickets plus no of matches played too.

please keep shoaib out of this discussion. as i already pointed out, he has yet to prove himself... he has played only 27 test matches as compared to waqar close to 90, wasim over 100 and imran over 80. he has only played 85 odi......and wasim 356 and waqar i guess close to 270...i mean he has no class to be included in this elite group yet...i mean if u compare waqar first 25 test matches or one day matches....oh god he was the best in cricket history... i guess he was the fastest to complete 200 wickets but we want to see the longer pic. and at least one need to play 50 matches to show his character...

Waqae Much Much better

WAQAR is many times better then Wasim.
he is the team man who keeps on telling the youngsters.
but sadly waseem looks for his own and the amount of destruction waseem has caused to pakistan cricket is enormous,

i still beleives waqar will make a come back with a bang !!

Re: Waqae Much Much better

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ophiolites: *
WAQAR is many times better then Wasim.
he is the team man who keeps on telling the youngsters.
but sadly waseem looks for his own and the amount of destruction waseem has caused to pakistan cricket is enormous,

i still beleives waqar will make a come back with a bang !!
[/QUOTE]

i totally agree with u.. wasim akram was the cancer for paksitani cricket teamm...i know it will raise a lot of eyebrows but based on my awareness of so many incidents, i know wut i am saying... it is so sad though....just think abt this.. when imran left after 18 yrs, he gave us wasim, waqar, inzi and before that abdul qadar, tiger saleem yousuf and many others... imran spotted them and nurtured them like a father.....well wut did wasim give to pak team when he left after 19 yrs.......no one..........no one....except dirty politics and growing hatred among team players........i wish akram had used his talent in a positive way to make this team the greatest team of the world....anyway we r kind of drifitng away from the topic........the question was to evaluate their abilities as a fast bowler and i know who was better....

Re: Re: Waqae Much Much better

Totally agree with u, look at the # of Players affected by Akram’s Dirty Politics…aamir, Aaqib, Rashid, maybe Basit and Ataa and more than anybody else Waqar younis.
Thats why i named him in this post

I find it very annoying that instead of enjoying the fact that we have had two of the best bowlers in the history of cricket, we are busy carrying out character aassaination of them. Both Waqar and Wasim were great bowlers, both had their strengths. Wasim has attained the status of a legend while Waqar is not far behind. I have had the pleasure of watching both of them in action and together they have destroyed many batting line ups around the world.

Be proud of what these two gave to our nation rather than getting involved in mud slinging.