Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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I m Asking It Again.Give me the Answer Guppies

Tell me 1 thing how can we muslim will unite on 1 paltform First of all it is absolutely incorrect to say, ‘what if we do not believe in Hadith…’ Noone is denying the deeds or words of the Messenger. Hadith books are available from every where. Actually the question ought to be rephrased that, “If we do not believe in the verity of Hadith, then how are we supposed to pray?”
We all know that Shia’s way of praying is different from that of a Sunni. And both claim to be following in the foot-steps of the Messenger. When we look at Sunnis, their ‘Ahl e Hadith’ sect’s way of praying is different from the ‘Hannafi’ sect. And everyone knows that. Again both of these sects claim to be in the foot-steps of the Messenger. The question is, whose way of praying ought we to consider as a true and a genuine version of the Messenger, when various different hadiths stand witness to every sect’s way of praying. MY important question to Guppies all is, are there any means existing today, by means of which we may know the exact manner, how the Messenger offered his prayers?
The answer to this question that these people give is, besides the Shiites, the differences in various factions of Sunni Muslims are flimsy and of no significance. Otherwise the procedures and manner of praying in all are the same. First of all it is all bunkum to say that these are flimsy differences and have no significance. The followers of one sect, leave alone the fact that they do not pray together, if by any chance a soft tone Quran reciter enters into the mosque of a high volume reciter, if they will not refurbish the floor of that mosque, it will at least be washed ten times and blessed ten times more.
What we read and listen now and then, to the riots in the mosques and between various sect members… what does that mean? Or when we come to know that a certain Imam (headpriest) has been murdered, members getting at each others throats, the interference of police and the government locking up and sealing the mosques… are these all due to trivial differences? And when these fanatics say that these differences are of no significance, it is sheer escapism from actual facts and an excuse to avoid the real meanings of a prayer.
It must be observed when a command or law is promulgated by the God (or His messenger), then the principle and its corollaries both are given their due importance; no way are these supposed to differ, by any means. For example, let us take the principle of Wadhu (ablutions) which is stated in the Quran that, we must wash our face and our hands upto the elbows. Now, if a person washes his hands upto the wrists and another upto the elbows, would you say that both of them are correct in doing so? As it is a trivial difference, is not the principle the same? It would certainly be incorrect to say that! Only he/she will be correct whose deed is according to the Quran. So to say that if anyone lifted his hands upto the ears or not, folded his arms on his chest or below the belly button, the space between his/her feet while standing for prayers, was too little or too much? Whether he recited to himself the sura ‘fatiha’ from the Quran after the Imam or not, and what phrases were uttered in a prayer? During the Ramadan, did he recite the ‘Tarawi’ eight or twenty times? How many was the number of ‘Takbeers’ in Eid prayers, so on and so forth, you are insinuating, are all matters of no significance? It is nothing else except escapism. If these people really believe that these trivialities are of no consequence, then just ask a staunch member of Ahl e Hadith sect to offer his prayers like the Hannafi sect does… He will not do so!
Can we who believe in Hadith, in all honesty say that our way of prayers is the genuine and true method of the Messenger MuhammadPBUH? Yet, each and every one of these sects claim that their way was the only way of the Messenger. And it does not make sense that all sects are correct. Are you prepared to believe that? Are you sure that during the times of the Messenger, some disciples offered their prayers like the Sunnis while other disciples offered their prayers like the Shiites do? Or that some prayed like ‘Ahl e Hadith,’ while others prayed like ‘Hannafis’? Or that the Messenger himself offered his prayers like the Sunnis at one time, while at another time he offered like the Shiites? Or sometimes like ‘Ahl e Hadith’ and sometimes like ‘Hannafis’? Obviously, we all know that it could not have been possible or behooving of the Messenger to adopt different manners at various times. There must have been one and only one way of praying by the Messenger and all his disciples must be offering prayers in one manner also. In Quran’s language difference between sects means the wrath of God and bifurcation in the DEEN of Islam.
If that was the state of affairs in those times of the Messenger, is it possible that we in anyway, again can unite the Muslim brotherhood and see them praying in unison? Unfortunately, we think this shall not be possible, as long as you all will believe in the hadiths to be the true and authentic words of the Messenger. Until then it is not possible to achieve this unanimity. As every sect in Islam has his own hadiths and every one of them claims to be in the foot-steps of the Messenger. Leaving aside the question of uniting these Muslims, in the present scenario, we are faced with an even bigger dilemma, of which there is no panacea at all

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

**
[QUOTE]

** There must have been one and only one way of praying by the Messenger and all his disciples must be offering prayers in one manner also. ***If that was the state of affairs in those times of the Messenger, is it possible that we in anyway, again can unite the Muslim brotherhood and see them praying in unison? *

[/QUOTE]

that is a good point ....Even long after the prophet those who were labelled as shiites or kharijites prayed togather with the sunnis in the same mosques ...and supposedly in the same way (but not sure about that) ....**

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

I belive tht Both sunni and Shia sec Has been born on History papers.In Muhammad (pbuh)Era there were no shia Sunni concept.They All were Muslim and True Follower of Allah and Muhammad(pbuh).But unfortunately Like chris and Jude.they had split the Message of Allah into their OWn Way.Because After Hazarat Ibrahim(As) (chris and jude) if they Followed the Books of Messenger. they should called themselves muslims Why they call himself Chris and Jude.And Allah has Choosed the name Muslim for the followers of the Messenger.Hazarat Ibrahim was the First muslim and we r Umat e Ibrahim.we call ourselves shia and sunni (like chris and Jude) if we r true follower of deen e Ibrahim we should call ourselves Muslim.But we do follows the books of Imams thts why we call ourselves Shia and Sunni.yet another time Hazarat e Insaan nay Woh rawaish Ikhtiyaar ke jo woh pahlay se karta araha tha.

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

^ that is a little oversimplification ....lets just say that political differences gradually became religious ones

Soft drink prices increased
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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

Yea both sec hve been born after Political difference and Gradually become religious differences.Any body hve the solutin tht how can we do unite Again.

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

^ nothing that can happen overnite ....it might take a few hundred years though with sincere efforts

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

Right but we r here shouldnt we discuss here how can we unite again do u hve any solution.i m posting some Ayaat
(2: 252) Such are Allah’s Laws based upon truth which He communicates to you, O Rasool! through revelation. You are truly of the order of the *Rusul*
253 No distinction is made amongst the Rusul mentioned in the Quran so far as their Nubuwwat is concerned (2/285). However, they are differentiated from each other by virtue of their spheres of activity. To some Allah spoke directly (e.g. Moses – 4/164, 7/143-144 and 42/51) and some were elevated above others in certain respects, among them is Jesus, son of Mary. To him, We had given revelation (Ruhul-Qudus) in an authentic form which was corroborated by reason. This gave him great strength and confidence (2/87).
** If it had been Allah’s will to create human beings without freedom of the will, then the followers of various Rusul would not have differed amongst themselves or waged wars against each other after they had received clear guidance through their Anbia. They differed and split into two classes: one who accepted Divine Laws and others who rejected them. Mark again! If Allah had not bestowed freedom of the will upon human beings they would not have differed or waged wars amongst themselves. This is also His Law and Allah does whatever He wills**

(39:3)Proclaim that obedience is due only to Allah's Laws. The people who leave Allah aside and take to following (worshipping) other 'protectors', in the pretext that these would help bring them close to Almighty, are in gross error. (In fact to achieve proximity to Allah, all that is needed is to follow the Code of Laws given by Him, without any intermediaries whatsoever ~ 5:35; 17:57.) **
[FONT=Times New Roman]In any case, people have adopted many different ways. Now Allah the Almighty (through this Quran) will settle all the disputed matters. (He will tell that) Whosoever attributes false things to Allah or conceals what has been revealed by Us, will never be able to reach his destination**
(10:93) Thereafter, Allah let Bani-Isr’ael settle in a favourable place and gave them wholesome provisions. But instead of remaining one united Ummah, they created differences amongst themselves after the revelation was sent to them. On the Day of Reckoning, Allah will surely decide between them in respect of what they differed in. **
*(2:212 to 213) Those persons who seek only worldly gains as their life’s objective find them most alluring and they mock at those who, seeking higher values, appear to them to be lacking in wealth and strength in the initial stages of their struggle, because they do not use foul methods to get worldly gains, but ultimately when the Divine System is established the latter will gain superiority over the former and receive bounties much greater than their adversaries. At that time this reality also becomes clearly known to all, that the people who want to acquire wealth in accordance with the Laws of *Allah, are bestowed wealth beyond counting. (This is sheer ignorance of man that he, in the initial stages gets perturbed due to some hardships and adopts dishonest ways and thinks that he would achieve great success like this.)
** 213 Not only the history of Bani-Isr’ael but that of humanity bears witness to what has been stated above. As mentioned in the story of Adam (2/30) originally mankind was a single community, free of dissension. Then human beings created mutual differences (10/19) and since these differences could not be resolved by means of human intellect alone, Allah sent a series of Anbia and Books for this purpose, who would give them glad tidings provided they lived together as one family and warn them about the consequences of a disintegrated society and resolve their differences in accordance with the revealed book. After departure of the Anbia who had accomplished their appointed tasks, their followers again created differences amongst themselves in their desire to outdo and out-strive each other. Those from amongst them who followed Allah’s Guidance were able again to resolve their mutual differences. This is how Allah, according to His Laws shows the right path to those who seek it (2/136, 3/83, 3/183, 16/92, 57/25).**

(11:118-119) As stated earlier (5/48) if it had been Allah’s plan that all humanity should be one united Ummah, it would not have been difficult for Him to bring that about by force. This was, however, not His plan. He endowed human-beings with freedom of will and choice. They will, therefore, continue creating differences amongst themselves. Only those who follow Allah’s guidance will not do so. According to Allah’s Laws, the abode of all the others - both Jinn and Ins - will be *Jahannam*

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

its a very nice thread .But one thing is sufficient to all above that is:

it is narrated that" when holy prophet(peace be upon him) ordered muslims to go to Khyber in 7 hijri , he told the sahaba not to put out their arms until reached Khyber so during thier way to Khyber time of Asr prayer came and some sahaba offered Asr prayer their while other group of sahaba said that prophet(peace be upon him) said not to put off arms until reach Khyber so they performed their ar prayer on reaching kyber.Now both groups came to prophet(peace be upon him) and asked which is wright or which group is wrong.The prophet(peace be upon him) answered that"Both are correct" as one intention is to offer prayer as commanment of Allah and other preffered my order but the intentions of both groups is correct ,only interpretaton of my saying looks different to both so both are correct." And it is the shaheeh and authentic hadees of prophet(peace be upon him.

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i am not faqeeh means nor i read foqah nor i am a scolar but the points you raised above are not so great only interpretation is different for example you said that Ahle hadees recite Surah fatiha other not but here again come the same thing .According to hanafi and other school of thought , they take the ayat of quran( when quran is being recited , you should listen quitely) i do not rmember the ezxct but its like that.But ahle hadees take the hadees of Bukhari shareef ( there is no prayer in which Fatiha is not recited).So you see the only difference is the way we look upthe matter .Both of them have correct intention , both of them have good sound knowledge but their own "Ijtihad" not going away from sunnah and Quran. So the dispute dissolved automatically.Just take it as a man looking a sunlight from prism and by slightly changing the position , one see red , yellow , green blue violet and so on.So these colours are different but ultimately all they have the same root , the White colour.So my brother all is that ...............................................................................................................................................

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BRIDAL PICS.
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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

i am not faqeeh means nor i read foqah nor i am a scolar but the points you raised above are not so great only interpretation is different for example you said that Ahle hadees recite Surah fatiha other not but here again come the same thing .According to hanafi and other school of thought , they take the ayat of quran( when quran is being recited , you should listen quitely) i do not rmember the ezxct but its like that.But ahle hadees take the hadees of Bukhari shareef ( there is no prayer in which Fatiha is not recited).So you see the only difference is the way we look upthe matter .Both of them have correct intention , both of them have good sound knowledge but their own "Ijtihad" not going away from sunnah and Quran. So the dispute dissolved automatically.Just take it as a man looking a sunlight from prism and by slightly changing the position , one see red , yellow , green blue violet and so on.So these colours are different but ultimately all they have the same root , the White colour.So my brother all is that ...............................................................................................................................................

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

but brother , sorry to say , shia sunni conflict dates back its origin even wen prophet(pbuh) was not born . BAnu hashim , banu ummayyah and banu makhzoom have tribal conflict but quraish , due to kaaba , have superiority , latter , makhzom left the race and match remains between banu hashim and ummayyah , latter in hazrat abu bakr and hazrat umar(ra) period unfortunately , banu hashim not took part in wars of syria , iran , egypt , and jordan but ummayyah did this and they become governors and high official in many provinces and had control over the wealth and government administration .So at time of hazrat umar(ra) , his intention was to make hazrat ali(ra) khaifah after him but " his inner eyes are looking behind the scene" . there is a chance of dispute in 22, 000 00 sq. km. vast government . in which mostly ummayyah , how can hazrat umar(ra) by pass them , its very dangerous for ummah, so he set up a committe of 6 and when ties between hazrat uusman(ra) and ali(ra) , abdur rahman bin auf(ra) inquired from many houses of medina and mostly voted in favour of usman(ra). and so he became caliph . Take a picture of pakistan , if in punjab , sind , NWFP , and balochistan , all 4 provinces have a government of nawaz sharif , will the central goverment be of benazir bhutto ?????????????, will this government can work undisputedly , not at all , same is the case here ......................................................... by god there is no difference off religion between ummyyah and hashim , hazrat ali*(ra) ever offered 3 prayers , never he wudoo startrd from feet , nor his kalma is added with (aliyyun waliyyun) , nor he believed that after me my family imams have "batni revelation" on them , and its is compulsory follow them , nothing such thing happen , even hazrat hassan(ra) guarded the usman(ra) home ibne abbas(ra) asked osman(ra) to fight them , the differece was just a political but unforunately ,abbasi khaleefah , and their barmaki wazirs , just hatred of arab conquest of iran , in their
"persian natonalism" gradually shanged even the minute details of basic faiths and unfortunately thsi also happens because some ummayyah khalliffah and officials also showed hatred to banu hashim , and this political dispute now grow into a major tree afte 1400 years , unfotunately, unfortunately , ufortunately.................................

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

yes thats what i think...:D

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

Muslim can never be united! Even sahabas were not united! There was clan bais between them which resulted in killing of Hazrat Uthman and Hazrat Hussain!

Pak v NZ - 3rd Test - 11-15 Dec. 09 @ Napier
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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

Now let me clear the complete concept of Surah Fatiha,

Accordingly in Surah Araf 204, its mentioned when Quran is recited listen to it silently.

Now accordingly the Hadeeth define, Prayer is not completed without Surah Fatiha. So according to the Hanafis they dont recite, thats fine and according to Ahle Hadeeth you mentioned they take the Hadeeth.
Well thats erroneous, Quran should anytime come before the Hadeeth period.
Your statement was wrong since I know this is not the ruling and the contradiction is completely different, I dont wont to get into it.

Now let us analyse when Quran is recited keep quiet that during Salah. Accordingly the consensus of the scholars have decided after reciting Surah Al fatiha they pause(wakfa for sometime before they continue the next surah. This is during Fajr, Maghrib and isha.

This wakfa is so that we can recite the Surah Fatiha between this time, so it covers both
1) Keep quiet when reciting the Quran
2) Recite Surah Fatiha. No denial of it infact the Shafi's follow this methodology.

Other than that Allaah knows the best. Other thing is, let it be Ahle Hadees, Hanifi, Shia or any sect on the face of earth the ruling of Quran should stand out first though sunnah is a part of religion.

Allaah knows best.

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

Imranjaff for all your answers if you have to get out and do a complete researach. Knowledge for the sake of Allaah. Though i understand your making things a little complicated for yourself thats the only option left.

For me it was easy all praise to Allaah, after the epiphany i knew two things
1) Read Quran and understand
2) Read the sahih hadeeth(bukhari and muslim).Well others might contradict thats what I feel, coz the methodology covered by bukhari and muslim are far more superior ot the other mohadith.

Other than that, the best possible thing I always say is Dont commit shirk, and thats how we can thank Allaah and then believe that Prophet is the messenger of Allaah.

Best eg, i always provide is check out Saudias they have one group and no sect atleast not like in our countries this is because the government modulates all this affairs.

Allaah knows the best.

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

I tried to read that initial post but all that glaring red.
plzz ppl, go easy on others eyes

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

Only one sect in Saudi Arab because the Saudi nation is under one dictatorship (our dear homeland Pak-hind is fully democratic, truth of the matter is our sub-continent is the largest democratic state in this world – freedom of religion is ‘no 1 right of any human in any civilized society but sorry to say Saudi are not civilized) you will find only one sect ‘Salafi’ in KSA long story short only Wahaibat is allowed there no one else. forcefully Government of Saudi Arab propagating Wahabism.

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

Wahabiyaat has nothing to do with this, keep your pathetic motives outside the thread.

If it weren't for wahabis, Arabs would be worshipping trees, peers and dead saints like many still do in India and Pakistan.

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

Out fo topic but you dont know what does a salafi mean.:D

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Re: Who is in foot-steps of the Messenger?

Sorry , i do not agree with zaid that here is no freedom of religion in saudi arabia .There are many hindus in saudia , many shias in eastern provinces as well as other sects.Does saudis have forcefully conveted them into wahabi , not at all.But their state religion is the true sayings of quran and sunnah(which some of us say it wahabism) and they strictly implement what prophet(peace be upon him ) said to hazrat ali(ra) when in medina , that go ali(ra) , and leave no dome on grave but fallen to ground , no picture but rub it , and break all the dols . Now theseare the commandments f propht(pbuh) and infact Allah , and if they done it with force , how can we critisize that.Personally i think if a goernent give peace stability food , shelter and welfare to its citizen , then even king is better and if their is poverty , black money of political leaders , no welfare , food, health for citizens , the land lords and miill owners again and again selected as a members of assemblies , no justice system , caste system every where , muslims and dallats are victims of prejudice in all india , poor are becomin more poor in pakistans , riots and killings of innocent lifes in bangladesh , always there is political unstability in provinces , votes are bought for money , politicians do not change thier suits in a day as they change parties , lie , fraud , false promises ,what not happens in politics .If this is democracy , themn i think citizens of saudi arabia are thousands of time better thaen us were all this drama does not take place.

Things you want to do before you die!!!