Who is better.. ??
a person who prays but harm others…by his/her actions…
or
a person who doesnt pray but think best for others…
from islamic point of view and our society’s…
Re: who is better..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by DESI CHURAIL: *
Who is better.. ??
a person who prays but harm others...by his/her actions...
or
a person who doesnt pray but think best for others...
from islamic point of view and our society's...
[/QUOTE]
No one, both are wrong. Are youu really a desi__________________-. :)
Imam Ibn Taymiyyah (rahimAllah) said that he would prefer the company of a well mannered apostate rather than the company of an ill-mannered Muslim...
Re: who is better..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by DESI CHURAIL: *
Who is better.. ??
a person who prays but harm others...by his/her actions...
or
a person who doesnt pray but think best for others...
from islamic point of view and our society's...
[/QUOTE]
Doing prayer is one's personnel matter.Its the matter between the person and the god.The society doesn't have to bother about him/her if he/she doesn't pray, but the soceity will bother if he/she harm the society by his/her act..
islam teaches us about ikhlaaq.our prophet also showed that we can win one's heart if our ikhlaq is good towards others.
So i think one should have at least behaviour in both the respect.
Allah pak ko woh banda bahut aziz hai
jo uske bande se mohabbat rakhta hai aur usse behtari se pesh ata hai.
hadith says a prostitute will enter paradise just because she gave water to a thirsty dog....
anothe hadith tells of a woman who praed regularly/fasted and all but had a cat who she wud nto feed properly nor wud she let her go out to find food for itself, and hence wud enter hell....
so what do u think????
huqoo-Allah maybe forgiven by Allah, but huqood-al-ibaad will not be....
just a side note, i read somewhere that a person who doesn't pray (the farz prayers) is an apostate, i don't know if what was meant by this was not praying at all or missing some, cud someone shed sum light on this?
I am impressed by the Guppies who have contributed to this thread so intelligently. I faced exactly the same question when a very good yaar of mine told me although he was born a Hindu, he did not belive in any religion now as he doesn't believe in God anymore. This person is the most moral person I have known in all my life. He is selfless, he would give the shirt off his back if he thought that's what you want, never refuses to help anybody no matter what their religion. Aadmi meri raayme pakka Saint hain. Honestly before I met him I didn't know people like him existed. I have never heard him tell even a white lie or criticise somebody if they were not present. My wife who is not easily impressed, aggrees with me that this is an extraordinary person. Hell, the guy doesn't even cheat on his taxes! He once said to me "I would rather fail with honour than succeed with fraud".
Now you tell me, a person like this guy, when he passes on (Inshallah that is a long time away!) do you think Allah or Bhagwaan or God is going to turn him back from the gates of heaven?
AsArmugal said huqooq-Allah may be forgiven by God but huqooq-ul-ibaad are to be forgiven only by the person who was wronged.
As for the question...Who is better.. ??
a person who prays but harm others...by his/her actions...
or
a person who doesnt pray but think best for others...
The second would be better but it doesn't mean people take that as a pass to forgivance. The best is he who fulfills both Gods and his fellows rights.
As I know god pretty well, I can safely say that god doesn't give two hoots about whether you pray 99 times a day, ring a ghanti 5 times in a mandir or light 20 candles in a church. The greatest way to show her love is to be like the person Arvind mentioned. Rituals and practices are not spirituality..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Rituals and practices are not spirituality..
[/QUOTE]
Just look thru the Huble telescope one day and tell me the God that made this infinite universe, is he small enough to insist that you observe all the rituals that the religions require us to follow? Those who insist that you must do such and such thing with no morality behind it, their God is much smaller than mine. Mine only asks me not to hurt others and serve others as if I was serving Him (or Her?).
^ abay I am agreeing with you. Mujhay lecture kyun dey rahaa hai?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
^ abay I am agreeing with you. Mujhay lecture kyun dey rahaa hai?
[/QUOTE]
Kisiko quote karna yeh lectruebazi nahin hoti hain. I just wanted to people not to miss a specific point you made that I thought should stand out.
yeah well..I am in a smarting mood. :p
Put'em up!!!
^ I suppose that is why not upholding the haqooq al ibaad i.e. rights of the people are soemthing Allah will not forgive. even though he may forgive if you miss haqooq Allah, rigfhts of god (worship being one)
We have too many people who focus on the prayers and not on the haqooq al ibad.
Pir sahib,
At times you exhibit a profound understanding of an issue as this one! (and then there are other times 
)
Arvind
There are times that I dont know enough to really take a position except for what i feel is right. But then there are other times I show profound understanding of issues but people dont see it as profopudn understanding because it is at odds with their own viewpoint :)
That is a very wayward concept coming from you and can be accrued to misinformation or lack of knowledge…
Worshipping Salat is not asked neither are you perscribed to do…You are commanded to worship Allah :swt:, and only under three circumstances are you free not to pray…1) You are insane, 2) you are in a coma and 3) You are dead…In all other circumstances you must without a shred of doubt pray Salat which is worship…
The Quran states:
**
“I am God, there is no other God but Me, you shall worship Me and observe the Salat (Contact Prayers) to commemorate Me.” 20:14
**
This is just one Ayah, there are others too…
The Holy Prophet :saw: said:
**
“Between kufr (disbelief) and iman (faith) lies abandonment of the prayer” (Tirmidhi) In another narration he (S) said, “Between a man and between shirk (polytheism) and kufr (disbelief) there is abandonment of the prayer.” (Bukhari)
**
True, Huqooq-ul-Ibaad holds importance, but that does not mean one neglects the rights of Allah :swt:, and worshipping Allah :swt: is not a right given to you, you are commanded to worship Him…
Many people may have bad tempers or may be naturally inclined to a distasteful disposition, for which they may be forgiven, but for a Muslim to wilfully disregard the commands of Allah :swt: is tantamount to rebellion and one will not be forgiven for that…
I have no clue what made you say that worship which is commanded by Allah :swt: will be forgiven…My friend, mistakes, ignorance, deception, weak Iman e.t.c may be conditions by which someone may neglect the commands of Allah (swt) and perchance may be forgiven it, but ignorance is no excuse…
Thinking that you may be forgiven for ignoring the worship of Allah :swt: is a grievous mistake, and surely, Allah (swt) will ask you of what commands of His you carried out and didn’t…
It’s strange that you should say something so contrary to the Quran…
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
That is a very wayward concept coming from you and can be accrued to misinformation or lack of knowledge…
That is a jumping the gun statement coming from you and can be attributed to misunderstanding or lack of comprehension
**I have no clue what made you say that worship which is commanded by Allah :swt: will be forgiven **
Not “will be forgiven” but “could be forgiven”
ignorance is no excuse…
exactly, and when it is stated that Allah could forgive you for not meeting your obligations to him, but not for failing to meet your obligations to the people, knowing that is knowldge, and not knowing that is ignorance.
**Thinking that you may be forgiven for ignoring the worship of Allah :swt: is a grievous mistake **
Sorry, but aside from whwt Allah has explicitly said that he will not forgive, one can not and should not doubt the mercy of god.
If he chooses to forgive us, he would. Its not upto you or me to say whether or not he will forgive. we can ask for forgiveness, and he can choose if he gives it. But it is stated that aside from a few things e.g. shirk he may forgive everything else.
**It’s strange that you should say something so contrary to the Quran… **
Its not strange that you missed the point yet once again.
I think what he may have meant was that Huqooq-Allah MAY be forgiven by Him but he won't be the one forgiving huqooq-ul-Ibaad. We would be at the mercy of those we wronged. so in the initial question chances of the first entering paradise may be less than the second.
Here is some food for thought for those who dare question Allah's mercy and compassion.
"Surely Allah won’t forgive shirk, anything besides that Allah will forgive….."[Surah Nisa: Ayah 48]
"Tell them (O Muhammad ): 'O My slaves who have wronged their souls, do not despair of Allah's mercy, for Allah will forgive all the sins. He is indeed very Forgiving, very Compassionate, Turn to Him then, and obey Him (in all your affairs).' " (Al-Zumar:53,54). This then is the Answer which does not need further elucidation.
it should be enough to quote Allah Himself who says: "My mercy has encompassed every thing." (Al-A'raf:56)
a hadith qudsi should be enough to quote. Said the Prophet on whom be peace: "Says Allah, 'He who knows (and believes) that I forgive all sins, then I do forgive all his sins, and do not care - so long as he does not suggest partners unto Me." And the rule will be applied (continues the Prophet ) in the Hereafter."
another hadith should offer the cure. The Prophet quotes Allah as having said: "Son of Adam! If your sins were to reach the limits of the sky, and then you seek My forgiveness, I shall forgive you, and I do not care. Son of Adam! If you will bring sins equal in volume to the earth and then you meet Me (on the day of Judgment) in the state that you would not have suggested partners unto Me, I shall give you in return forgiveness equal to the volume of the earth."