who is better..

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Just to add to some references quoted by lajawab.

The Prophet (pbuh) said: “The first thing of the slave to be reckoned on the Day of Judgement will be his Prayer. If it is good, the rest of his deeds will be (accounted as) good. And if it is rotten, the rest of his deeds will be rotten”. (Tabarani)

The Prophet (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) reported that Allah told him:

"My wrath descends upon a person who bears ill-will towards My friends. And only those are blessed with My love who implicitly carry out Fardh (obligatory) injunctions.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Arvind

There are times that I dont know enough to really take a position except for what i feel is right.

[/QUOTE]

Wanting to take a position for what you feel right is IMO the ultimate morality. Whoever taught you this, should be proud of their student.

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arvind

thanks, it is my parents, but they go a step further saying that when you take a position based on that it feels right, it should be a temporary stop, only to give you more time to learn more so you can be sure that you have the right feeling.

strongman

I dont see how what you have quoted negates any of what I had posted from the quran narrating allah's mercy.

24

i’d like to point out here that there’s a difference between

  1. HURTING SOMEONE DELIBERATELY

and

  1. NEVER INTENDING TO HURT THE OTHER PERSON, BUT THE PERSON STILL GETTING HURT

you might be very perceptive and realise in case number 2 that the person is hurt but there’s been times in my life when the other person completely mistook me and then i came to know from a third person that they are hurt :konfused: what abt such cases? do i still get gunah? coz my intention was totally clear and i never meant harm to the other person

khayr, i think deliberately hurting another human being is a VERY BIG SIN

i’ll quote bullay shah again

masjid dha de mandir dha de
dha de jo vi dhenda
ik banday da dil na dhaavein
Rabb dilan wich Rehnda

but sometimes people r mean/disrespectful to you and you can’t help but reciprocate in the manner… :bummer: it takes a lot of self control not to…
ofcourse the Prophet (SAW) was nice even to his enemies…

i think NAMAZ is extremely important. in the Qabr, thats the first question we’ll be asked.

but we’ve also heard stories about the sinners who were forgiven by Allah swt for their one act of mercy towards another living creature…Allah swt is Forgiving, He Forgives whom He wants

25

And let those beware too who take lightly Allah :swt:'s commands for all of His merciful names, three are those that should be heeded by those who are heedless…They Al-Qahhar, Al-Wahhab and Al-Qabbit…

**
59:7
That which Allah giveth as spoil unto His messenger from the people of the townships, it is for Allah and His messenger and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, that it become not a commodity between the rich among you. And whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it). And keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is stern in reprisal.

65:5
That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you: and if any one fears Allah, He will remove his ills, from him, and will enlarge his reward.

65:8
How many populations that insolently opposed the Command of their Lord and of His messengers, did We not then call to account,- to severe account?- and We imposed on them an exemplary Punishment.

65:9
Then did they taste the evil result of their conduct, and the End of their conduct was Perdition.

65:10
Allah has prepared for them a severe Punishment (in the Hereafter). Therefore fear Allah, O ye men of understanding - who have believed!- for Allah hath indeed sent down to you a Message,-
**

…And the message tells you to worship him…

**

“That which you worship besides Him are only names and you and your forefathers have invented for which Allah has sent down no authority; the command belongs only to Allah: He has commanded that you worship Him; that is the right religion, but most men do not understand.” (Quran 12:40)

51:52 Even so there came no messenger unto those before them but they said: A wizard or a madman!

51:53 Have they handed down (the saying) as an heirloom one unto another ? Nay, but they are froward folk.

51:54 So withdraw from them (O Muhammad), for thou art in no wise blameworthy,

51:55 And warn, for warning profiteth believers.

51:56 I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.

**

True, the Holy Prophet :saw: states that Allah :swt:'s compassion encompasses Allah :swt:'s wrath many folds and many times over, however that is not an excuse to disregard His commands because when He does resort to punishment it is a terrible one…Do you believe Allah :swt: will let go of the insolence of disregarding His commands so easily?

I fear writing this, for as I write these words out, I impose upon myself the responsibility of being one who is called to account for niggardliness and ignorance by my own words…Technically I should let you not worship Him thinking that He will forgive you your trespass…

The Huqooq-ul-Ibaad fall under provisions and rights of men which includes rights of orphans, widows, divorcees, parents, Prophets, men of knowledge and so on, to tamper with them is indeed going against the commands of Allah :swt:…Huqooq-Allah are those which please Allah (swt)…Worship is not just Huqooq-Allah, but is a command as well…You can ignore that which pleases Allah (swt) but to ignore His commands is a dangerous move…

Whether I jumped the gun, misunderstood or miscomprehended call it what you will, it doesn’t matter to me, for in the end it is your heart which will be a witness for or against you…You said not worshipping Him can be forgiven while the Quran states that He created man and Jinn for nothing else than His worship…

Of course He can choose to forgive us or not…But if you choose to ignore His commands, you leave Him little choice, don’t you? Or do you expect to do something so extraordinary that all your sins and transgressions will be forgiven? Do you expect to live that long?

Do what you will man, I can only tell you what I find wrong…I am not forcing anything on you…

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Does the Quran really state that God created man for nothing else than His worship?

27

*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
…Do you believe Allah :swt: will let go of the insolence of disregarding His commands so easily?

I dont know, all I know is that he could forgive if he wants to. Maybe one of your deeds would be liked so much that everythign else could forgiven, or maybe you will not be forgiven.

How easily allah forgives is only upto him. I can not say that it will be very easy, just like you can not say it will be very hard. We dont know.

…Technically I should let you not worship Him thinking that He will forgive you your trespass…

Technically, who is saying not to pray? the point was a very simple point about what he will forgive and what he will not

The Huqooq-ul-Ibaad fall under provisions and rights of men which includes rights of orphans, widows, divorcees, parents, Prophets, men of knowledge and so on, to tamper with them is indeed going against the commands of Allah :swt:…

Huqooq-Allah are those which please Allah (swt)…Worship is not just Huqooq-Allah, but is a command as well…You can ignore that which pleases Allah (swt) but to ignore His commands is a dangerous move…

It is indeed, but it does not alter the basic point that Allah will forgive you for not meeting your obligations if he so chooses. Do you find anything wrong in that statement?

…You said not worshipping Him can be forgiven while the Quran states that He created man and Jinn for nothing else than His worship…

Now when i also just posted ayaats directly from Quran which show his mercy and notes that he will forgive is we ask, he will forgive if he chooses to, then I am not at liberty to impose limitations on the extent of God’s mercy and forgiveness.

**Of course He can choose to forgive us or not…But if you choose to ignore His commands, you leave Him little choice, don’t you? **

frankly my dear, Allah is not bound by what “choice” a human gives him.

Or do you expect to do something so extraordinary that all your sins and transgressions will be forgiven? Do you expect to live that long?

Allah can forgive if he wants to, whether he likes one small deed that you did, which may seem nothing to you but may be liked a lot by him.

As far as all my sins and transgressions been fogiven, thats the hope right, your actions of present and future would not erase your sins, and if there is no chance of forgiveness and mercy, then why even try?

This is not to say that one should ignore his religious duties or go on committing sin saying that he or she would be forgiven…BUT..what it also does not mean is that Allah will not forgive. He will, if he chooses to.

its as simple as that.

**Do what you will man, I can only tell you what I find wrong…I am not forcing anything on you… **

you jump the gun, as i stated in my previous sentence, teh fact that Allah will forgive if he wants to does not give you a carte blanche to go on committing sins and/or neglecting duties, but what it means is that there are sins that can be forgiven and there are those that will not be forgiven.

I thought it was a pretty simple concept really.

28

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Does the Quran really state that God created man for nothing else than His worship?
[/QUOTE]

Indeed it does...

29

[QUOTE]
Who is better.. ??
a person who prays but harm others...by his/her actions...
or
a person who doesnt pray but think best for others...

from islamic point of view and our society's...
[/QUOTE]

In my opinion it all depends on the relative intesity of both sins....

A person who prays but harms other will recieve gunnah for harming others and in the same way he will get sawab for praying....

In the second case if the person do not openly mock the ibadah's and is very honest in his approach ..then he may be better then others.....

The question is in my opinion just like ...sharab peena behtar hay ya zana karna.....ofcourse both are sins...and it is very damgeruos to priortise anyone ......

Same is the case here...ppl tend to use this predictment to say ...haqqooq ullah to maaf ho jain ga bandaun kay haqqoq maaf nahin hoon gay....

i have heared some where ..dont know it is hadith or ayah .....

uss banday ka bura hal hay jo aLAh per lambi umeedain bandhay .....gunah kar kay kahay kay Allah bara ghaffaur ur raheem hay......

wasalam

30

"a person who doesnt pray but think best for others... "

This person is better from every aspect... because your deeds overrides your prayers.

31

"We mortals are not the best judge of one's personal intentions."

32

IMHO, Seminole and Abdali comments illuminate the thread better rather than long drawn out posts which are hard to read after second page. Guppies, somewhere along the line you must state what you think instead of what someone else wrote.

33

god DC, use yer brains for a change chicka..ofcourse the person who is a better human-being is the better one overall..frankly, I think praying means jack, I mean people pray only coz they fear they will rot in hell after their death..it's not out of love for god or whatever( maybe for a select few it is).

34

first namaz than every thing else should follow.
first question after death will be about namaz.
Koran has talked about namaz at numerous times.

but that doesn't mean ke leave every other good deed.

Lekn first namaz.

35

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chandbeti: *
god DC, use yer brains for a change chicka..ofcourse the person who is a better human-being is the better one overall..frankly, I think praying means jack, I mean people pray only coz they fear they will rot in hell after their death..it's not out of love for god or whatever( maybe for a select few it is).
[/QUOTE]
I agree. An overemphasis on rituals detracts from the real purpose of religion. Praying for the sake of praying has nothing to do with spirituality. It doesn't necessarily make a person better. There are plenty of people who pray several times a day who spend their non-praying time murdering or planning the murder of others. While there are good people who pray when and where they want who spend their lives doing good for others.

In my opinion, if God requires us to do something every day, several times a day, it would be to do something to help our fellow man. To better ourselves and our community. God doesn't need our help, mankind does. While we are wasting our time doing something for someone who doesn't need our help we could be helping each other. I don't think God is so petty, jealous, vain or needy that He requires us to spend a good portion of our day worshipping him.

36

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chandbeti: *
god DC, use yer brains for a change chicka..ofcourse the person who is a better human-being is the better one overall..frankly, I think praying means jack, I mean people pray only coz they fear they will rot in hell after their death..it's not out of love for god or whatever( maybe for a select few it is).
[/QUOTE]

if prayer means jack than write a Will . that people shouldn't pray
your namaz -e- janaza.

37

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *
"a person who doesnt pray but think best for others... "

This person is better from every aspect... because your deeds overrides your prayers.
[/QUOTE]

who told you this.

38

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *

In my opinion, if God requires us to do something every day, several times a day, it would be to do something to help our fellow man. To better ourselves and our community. God doesn't need our help, mankind does. While we are wasting our time doing something for someone who doesn't need our help we could be helping each other. I don't think God is so petty, jealous, vain or needy that He requires us to spend a good portion of our day worshipping him.
[/QUOTE]

Wah re putthar! If this doesn't hit the bulls eye then I don't know what does!