Who is better - Rashid Latif OR Moin Khan - and why ?

I will vote for Moin in ODI and Rashid for tests. Every keeper makes mistakes and Moin and Rashid have there fair share of it all. I like them both but Moin is a much better keeper when it comes to ODI. While some have pointed out the weaknesess of Moin lets not forget that in the recent match in Sharjah Rashid Latif and Akram could not score some 20 odd runs in 4 overs against S/L. That would not have happened if Moin was playing. Again in that match at Dhaka where Pakistan scored 300 plus and India beat us, Rashid missed one or two easy stumping chances which he admitted to himself later on. I don’t particularly want to get into the weaknesses of both keepers but suffice to say that in ODI you need a reasonable keeper who can bat and that without a doubt is Moin. I hope he is played in the coming world cup. Remember him decimating the Aussie attack in the last world cup when Pakistan scored 150 runs in the last 10 overs, thanks mainly to him.

Moin in full flow is much more devestating then either Umair, AQ or Asif.

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[This message has been edited by ehsan (edited July 18, 2002).]

Gilchrist is a better WK than Latif. he is way ahead of Latif in both tests and ODIs. About Gilchrist and Bevan being better than Sachin - Yes If you combine them, then they may be, but indivually not in this lifetime. Sachin is better than them and I have proved that again and again. Please let me know If you guys want me to produce that data again.

PS :- No one was comparing Latif with Gilchrist, boucher at all, It was just a Simple comparision between Latif and Moin - Why cant someone has an opinion of his own, Why cant I think that Moin is better than Latif ?
For God’s Sake If someone can say that AFRIDI is NEXT RICHARDS or BRADMAN was a CRAPPY Batsman , Why can’t I or AQ say that Moin is a better Keeper ?

NW - We dont need people who desert their Teams in need. Rashid has done that many times in the past, once on a foreign tour. We have already kicked Nayan Mongia out of the team.


AK

[This message has been edited by Asif_k (edited July 18, 2002).]

Rashid Lateef ... Much Experience And Good batsman ( better than Moin )


Owner of Mehkama-e-Sharafat
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Rude Boyz Rulez

ah cool using your logic why cant anyone say Rashid is better than Gilchrist and others ?

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[quote]
Originally posted by sambrialian:
Yaar Asif and AQ seriously speaking do you guys have a personal little magic database that you dig into and pull out all these beautiful numbers from? 'cause before you know you guys have some stats to prove one thing or the other.
[/quote]

Yaar Sambri, No we dont have a personal DB, Cricinfo is enough for us. Tell me onething honestly, Why can't I or AQ have a different opinion than you or Umair ? Why cant I think that Moin is a better Wicket Keeper ? How does India or Deep DasGupta or Ajay Ratra come into the picture ? If I think Moin Khan is better than Rashid Latif, How come this became Sour Grapes ??

If you keep insisting that Rashid Latif is better than moin/Gilchrist etc just because you think so, then I have to bring the stats because I think otherwise.

[quote]
*And Asif Hamyun Farhat is a future pivot of our team. He's supposed to be a very good batsman and a fine keeper. He's very young though so give him time before you start stacking him against greats like Dasgupta and Dighe. *
[/quote]

So was Atiq-uz-Zaman (Remember him ??) WOuld you please tell us what happened to him ? If you think Humayun Farhat is a very good batsman, So do I think about Ajay Ratra and Deep Dasgupta. Ratra is a good WK as well.


AK

You can, but without Insulting Indian Players. Also If I think Gilchrist is better than Rashid, then it has something to with me being an Indian or India not having a Good WK ? Can you explain that logic ?

You guys would love to have a WK like Gilchrist in your Team, But since you can’t have it - He is not the best. Talk about sour grapes !!


AK

Can you explain the logic other way round ? It takes 2 to clap anyway.

Note : You guys would love to have a WK like Rashid in your team, But since you can’t have it - He is not the best. Talk about sour grapes !! you have to live with Dasgupta

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Why can't you guys keep to the thread and dicuss the merits or otherwise of the two wicket keepers. I was hoping that all of you will cool down and stick to the thread.

** Any post from hereon which does not stick to the thread will be deleted.**

^ ok shoooo sowwweyy ehsan unkil

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[quote]
Originally posted by ehsan:
*Why can't you guys keep to the thread and dicuss the merits or otherwise of the two wicket keepers. I was hoping that all of you will cool down and stick to the thread.
*

[/quote]

Ehsan Bhai, the problem is, If we dont agree about Latif being the best, they will tell us Sour Grapes. So basically to continue with the discussion we have to agree that Latif is best.


AK

I'll go for Rashid Latif!

Ehsan the tournament that you are recounting is the Independence Cup in Bangladesh I believe. I remember Latif kept very very poorly towards the end of the tournament. However, I would not crucify him for that just because he was making a comeback and had been laden with the burden of captaincy. Plus all the senior players were missing. Anyways, I saw all the matches in the tournament and screamed at Latif when he missed a catch off Singh and then missed stumping him off the same ball even though Robin Singh was out of his crease for a whole minute without even realizing it. But I would still forgive Latif for that, it was a just one off tournament because he was under incredible pressure.

I agree Moin is simply sensational in the last 10 overs. Nobody could be compared to him when he was at his shot making best. But as we all Pakistanis know there is a lot more to the Pakistani team than simply cricket. How do you think Moin, Latif and the rest of the team would take it that Latif is keeping in tests and Moin in ODI’s? I bet there would be a lot of tension and politics to change the scenario.

And for now Latif seems to have gelled really nicely with the team not just as a player but also as a senior player and a leader. So if I were a selector, I would do nothing to change the makeup of this side except perhaps signal to his royal highness Shoaib Akhtar that he’s very dispensible. (Yes, I’m still pissed at what Shoaib did.)

MOIN KHAN :-

WK in ODI - At PAR
WK in TESTS - Not Better
Batting in ODI - Better
Batting in Test - Better
Loyalty to the Team - Very Loyal
Performance in ODIs - Very Good
Performance in Tests- Very Good
Match Winner - Yes, both with his batting and Wicket keeping as well, has proved it many times with his batting

RASHID LATIF :-

WK in ODI - At PAR
WK in TESTS - Better
Batting in ODI - Poor (Not better at all, recent example Pak-SL match couldn't make 12 runs in 4 overs)
Batting in Test - Not Better
Loyalty to the Team - Not at all, even supported Waqar's suspension for ball tempering, has been responsible for ruining career of Basit Ali for personal gains. Has accused almost every senior player in the current team of Match fixing.
Performance in ODIs - Good
Performance in Tests- Good
Match Winner - Not with his batting at least

My Choice - MOIN KHAN any day.

Prove me If I am wrong (Yeah and I am not using stats)


AK

I guess, If you had been watching the recent Series against NZ, Rashid dropped 2 catches in one over of Danish’s Bowling. Pakistan was lucky that they were playing NZ and batsman was not Steve Waugh.

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AK

rashid latif was always better
moin got lucky because he was in league with the crooks

Just before going further into the discussion here are the batting averages of Moin and Rashid (specially for those who think Rashid is way.way.poor than moin when it comes to batting)



           MOIN         RASHID
One day :  23.00        20.10
Test    :  28.32        29.05


Here is another and another interesting article :

The dilemma of being Moin Khan
Agha Akbar - 21 March 2002

Around this time last year, Moin Khan was the Pakistan captain. And although things had started unravelling for him because of a string of reverses, he was still supposed to carry the mantle till 2003 World Cup, if not beyond. Now, he has to use all his powers of persuasion, and some behind the scenes wheeler dealing, not to win back his place in the eleven, but simply to sweat along with the boys at the training camp.

That invitation was not an original idea of the selectors, but a mere afterthought. Not in the original 30, a terse one-liner two days later from the PCB headquarters informed the world that Moin’s name had been added to the list of invitees. The telephone lines are said to have ‘burnt’ not just between Lahore and Karachi, but all the way to Cape Town too, to win this small, but crucial concession to take Moin’s international career out of limbo.

But being “in the reckoning” is the easy part. With Rashid Latif keeping and batting like a dream come true, Moin’s return to the eleven will take some doing. Ever so neat, compact, agile, athletic and all anticipation, with all the ingredients that make a great wicket-keeper, Rashid has looked so good with the gloves that a missed catch or stumping seems unimaginable. Of course Rashid too is human and fallible. But since his comeback there hasn’t been a hint of him giving anything away. So supreme has he been that in the Sri Lankan innings of 500-plus in the Asian Test Championship Final, he conceded just one bye. A remarkable feat, considering that the Pakistani ‘quicks’ were spraying it short and wide until young Mohammad Sami found the line and length to claim a hat-trick.

**Using the gymnastics scale of excellence, if Rashid were to be rated a perfect 10, Moin was something like 5 or 6. It was Moin’s doughty batting, and some ‘indiscretions’ of Rashid’s that he has now left behind but has the courage of conviction not to disown, that earned the former preference. While Latif’s batting was even then in the classical mould, it was Moin whose ability in a crisis endeared him to the gallery and the selectors alike. **

In his latest reincarnation, caused by a stroke of inspiration by the PCB chief Lt Gen Tauqir Zia, **Latif is recognised as perhaps the best keeper-batsman - as opposed to batsman-keeper - in contemporary cricket. Rashid has earned this tag with remarkable consistency in critical situations, often in last-ditch stands with the tail. In the process he has improved both his Test and one-day highest scores, notching 150 in the same Test (against the West Indies at Sharjah) as he claimed his 100th victim behind the stumps. **

While Moin remains second best, by a considerable distance, he does not have the ghost of a chance to wear the Pakistan cap again in the near future. Regardless of the politics of cricket (in which the south of the country has repeatedly yet inexplicably stood solidly behind Moin, although Rashid is also a native of the same cosmopolitan city),the weight of Rashid’s performance is too massive to ignore.

But stranger things have happened in Pakistan cricket than Rashid being consigned to oblivion now when he is at the peak of his powers. Oblique hints that ‘player power’ is rearing its monstrous head are floating again. How high it will be raised will be determined in the days to come, depending on the PCB’s patience with such antics. If things get out of hand (the chances of which seem remote) there might be a slight opening here for Moin. Maybe he will beseech the selectors to offer him an opportunity as a specialist batsman. There is a precedent, for Moin has played international cricket as a batsman alone. But that was in different times.

The question here is: can Moin break into a batting line-up which may not live up to its potential in each and every innings, but where all middle-order spots are occupied by undisputed genuine articles? Can Moin possibly push out Inzamam, Youhana, Younis or Razzaq to carve a slot for himself? It doesn’t seem plausible.

Among others, Faisal Iqbal, rated highly by some but run down by others, cannot hope to find a place in the middle order. That is why Faisal’s canny uncle Javed Miandad, knowing full well that there are limited opportunities in the middle order, has suggested to the selectors in one of his columns on a web site that the youngster be considered for an opener’s slot.

So the dilemma for Moin is two-fold: Rashid is well settled, and the window of opportunity for batsmen is shut too tightly for comfort. It is time for the gritty fighter Moin to test the power of his prayers, and hope that luck would somehow shine on him.

Source : cricinfo.com

[This message has been edited by Nakhrey Wali (edited July 18, 2002).]

Moin Khan is definitely better.

When he's playing one senses a definite enthusiasm as he keeps the bowler the fielders well on their toes. His wicket-keeping skills can be better, but I'd say he's as good as Latif even there. Batting-wise he has gotten Pakistan out of tough spots on one too many occasions. I say he should be brought back for the World Cup next year.

[quote]
Originally posted by kabir:
rashid latif was always better
moin got lucky because he was in league with the crooks

[/quote]

precisely my friend! Even though when he was dropped he deserved to hold his place but he displaced Latif when Latif was doing well so things came full cycle.

Asif I'm reply to you in detail later. I'm short on time right now.

[quote]
Originally posted by Nakhrey Wali:
**Just before going further into the discussion here are the batting averages of Moin and Rashid (specially for those who think Rashid is way.way.poor than moin when it comes to batting)

       MOIN         RASHID

One day : 23.00 20.10
Test : 28.32 29.05

Here is another and another interesting article :**
[/quote]

After all - aa hi gaye na aukat pe - Using the same stats to prove your point.


AK

well its stats and on-field both. (you botherd to read the atricle that added in the same post ?). Moin has a edge in one day batting even then i’ll stick to Rashid is better WK than Moin even in oneday.

And as far as stats and no stats is concerned its your call now you name it we will go by that ok ? but then stick to it.

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