who is best?indian army or pak army?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *

Because the leadership was decrepit. Rvikz, your an intelligent individual who knows enough about Pakistani history. I'm pretty sure that you know that Yayha Khan was a womenizing drunkard, who came into power accidentally. ZAB was a deceitful, manipulative politician who couldnt let Shekh Mujib come to power, eventhough Awami league had been solid in victory. The Army leadership was no less corrupt, with Tikka Khan, Niazi, Rahim Khan all intending to secure their holds on power. I'm sure that they knew of the possibility but I'm talking about the average soldier, the majority of the military,

Like I said before, '71 was the only time you Indians can say anything. Just realize that your nation was one of the wolves in the pack attacking Pakistan. Without Mukti Bahini, and the people of Bengal on your side, Pakistanis wouldve given you the Kashmir treatment.
[/QUOTE]

i agree with you bad leaership caused the problem. if they have given
some kind of autonomy whole thing could have been avoided.

What a moronic thread. As if anyone will know which army “rocks” and is “best” without actually fighting to the death of the last soldier and nukes are exchanged.

Grow up people. It is easy to post moronic messages and be armchair warriors.

Go talk to the mothers, fathers, sisters, and children of soliders from either side who would die so you can come to an Internet message board to beat a drum and feel good about yourself.

:rolleyes:

agree with you most of us are brave from safe distance.
some even make fun of failure to start the war .

Well said Kareem!

Well taken Kareem. I think we should close the discussion here after your very thoughtful comment. Let's ponder.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dhir: *
Well taken Kareem. I think we should close the discussion here after your very thoughtful comment. Let's ponder.
[/QUOTE]

Well, not to be spitful, the discussion was started by an Indian; who apprently never replied back up to now.

Time for you to ponder.

Maybe he just wanted to see our inflated egos.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dhir: *
Maybe he just wanted to see our inflated egos.
[/QUOTE]

Title: who is best?indian army or pak army?

What do you say now?

indian army ofcourse.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
**Title:
* who is best?indian army or pak army?
What do you say now?
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's what I said, he is exploiting our inflated egos.

as far as this thread is concerned,i do agree with kareem that this is a moronic thread.the reason is,the whole world knows the fact that pakistan army is a loser and it has lost 3 full fledged wars with india(1948,65,and 71 :p ) and two low scale wars( in 1984(siachen)an kargil(1999)).

      india has got an edge over pakistan in terms of the number but what i think is pakistan has got a slightly better edge over india in terms of its Air-technology.it is said that pakistan war fighter planes are equipped with Radio jamming devices,those can jamm the conversations made between pilot and the control room.and pakistan has got  good missile technology that can poise a threat to india.but indian missiles are capable of reaching all the destinations within pakistan and this nullifies pakistans edge in terms of missile technology.

in a land war,pakistan has got not much reserviours to withstand indian attack or defence and this proves indian army has the edge.the only area in which pakistan out numbers indian army is the number of artilleries but this is not a big thrat to india.india has got a great naval fleet and it has its resence eve in malakka bay.pakistan is still lagging in naval defence .after the induction of sophisticated sukhoi fighters ,pakistans narrow edge(interms of air technology)has come to an end.

  it was indias superior power that scared pakistan and compelled it to take actions against terrorists operating on the soil of pakistan.

already pakistan is crippling with many internal issues and freedom fighters(sindh)and `civilians' who hate christian presence in the country have started taking arms and become rebellions.
i think,no war is needed ,but it is only a matter of time before NATHURAMS DREAM comes true.

Do u people really think jinnah wanted a pakistan?

**Gesto,

Where do you live in India?**

http://www.gupistan.com/gallery/1/primetargets.gif

here is an account of thr four wars between pakistan and india from an indian source, hence they have exageratted a few numbers…bechaaray aadat say tang hain ;)..http://www.expressindia.com/kashmir/kashmirlive/wars.html

The four Indo-Pak wars

First Indo-Pak war (1947-49)
The first war between the two neighbours broke out soon after their independence in 1947. Armed Pathans from the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan entered the territory of Maharaja Hari Singh of Kashmir, who was yet undecided on the issue of accession to either India or Pakistan. Indian military help was sought by the Maharaja to fend off the invasion. Forces arrived on October 27, after the Maharaja decided on accession of Kashmir to Indian Union.
**
Despite early successes, the Indian Army suffered a setback in December because of logistical problems. Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (Azad Kashmir) troops forced Indian army to retreat from the border areas. Following spring, the Indian side mounted another offensive to recapture some of the ground that it had lost.

As the conflict escalated, the India realised the war could not be ended unless Pakistani support to occupied Kashmir forces was stopped. Accordingly, India filed a compliant against Pakistan at the United Nations on December 31, 1948, despite some opposition from within the Cabinet.
**
In August, the UN Commission for India and Pakistan called for an end to hostilities with a truce, to be followed by a referendum for self-determination among Kashmiris. Both the parties agreed to the UN resolution. The UN Security Council eventually brought about a ceasefire between Pakistani and Indian troops on January 1, 1949.

In all, 1,500 soldiers died on each side during the war, which left about 30 per cent of Kashmir-including areas of Gilgat, Hunza, Nagar, and Baltistan-under Pakistani control.


**
Second Indo-Pak war (August 5 - Sept 23, 1965)
**The war of 1965 was perhaps one of the most intense wars the two neighbours ever fought. It was also the one that exposed weaknesses in the India’s military prowess.
Pakistan attacked India in operation code named Gibraltar on August 5, 1965. After initial skirmishes, the first major engagement between the two sides took place on August 14. Following initial advances by India in the northern sector, Pakistani forces moved concentrations near Tithwal, Uri, and Poonch. **In a powerful retaliation Indian troops advanced into occupied Kashmir and captured strategic Haji Pir Pass, eight kilometers inside Pakistani territory.

Pakistan then launched Operation Grandslam to take the Akhnoor bridge and cut off the lifeline of supplies to southwest Kashmir. On September 1, Pakistani attack in the southern sector in Punjab inflicted heavy losses on Indian forces. On September 2, India called in air support, which was retaliated by Pakistani air strikes in Kashmir and Punjab.
**
The war was at a point of stalemate when the UN Security Council unanimously passed a resolution on September 20 that called for a ceasefire. New Delhi and Islamabad accepted the ceasefire, and the war ended on September 23. Indian troops suffered 3,000 casualties, while the Pakistani suffered 3,800. Almost thousand tanks, on either side, were engaged in the war. At the end of it Pakistan lost an estimated 300 tanks, India’s losses were 128 tanks.

In the aftermath of the war, Soviet-brokered Tashkent Declaration was signed on January 10, 1966.


**
Third Indo-Pak war (1971)
**The 1971 Indo-Pak war initially started as a civil war in East Pakistan (Bangladesh) as a result of political oppression by the ruling elite of West Pakistan. The revolt began in 1970, when after the general election Awami League leader Sheikh Mujibur Rehman was thrown behind bars.

Pakistani Army cracked down in Bangladesh, killing civilians. Over 80 lakh refugees entered India. Indian government repeatedly appealed to the international community, but failing to elicit any response, then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi decided to help Bengali freedom fighters liberate East Pakistan in April 1971.

Pakistan Air Force in East Pakistan responded by attacking suspected Mukti Bahini camps located inside Indian territory in West Bengal. On December 3, Pakistan Air Force struck Indian airfields in northern India. By midnight, India was officially at war with Pakistan.

In one of the swiftest military campaigns in recent history, India liberated Bangladesh in two weeks, taking 93,000 Prisoner of Wars.

On July 2, 1972, India and Pakistan signed the Simla Pact, agreeing to respect the Line of Control until the issue is finally resolved.


**
Kargil War (1999)
**Kargil was one of the brutish wars fought between the two countries at the frozen heights of Himalayas. Infiltrators in the Batalik sector were first discovered by Indian Army patrols on May 8, 1999. The intruders, comprising mostly Pak Army regulars, along with a sprinkling of Mujahideen, were specially trained and equipped by Pakistan in 40 staging camps near the Line of Control (LoC).

The troops were trained and concentrated at Gultari, Faranshat, Shaqma, Olthingthang, Marol and Kharmang in Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir (PoK), prior to being inducted across the LoC. They had been equipped by Pakistan with medium machine guns, heavy mortars and sophisticated small arms to fight, duly supported by Artillery, with snow mobiles and aviation helicopters for maintenance and sustenance. For protection against air threat they had Stinger missiles.

On May 31, Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee said it was a “war-like situation” in Kargil and on June 6, the Army launched Operation Vijay, a major offensive in Kargil and Drass sectors. These were accompanied by air strikes. The objective was to keep the crucial Srinagar-Leh highway free from any Pakistani threat.

Three days later, the Army captured the crucial Tololing peak. **Vajpayee visited Kargil while US President Bill Clinton urged Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to pull out off Kargil. By July 11, Pakistani infiltrators started retreating from Kargil as India recaptured key peaks at Batalik and set a deadline of July 16 for total withdrawal. On July 12, Sharif announced the pullout on the television and proposed talks with Vajpayee.

Operation Vijay was declared a success on July 14.** {what a joke :hehe:}

East Pakistan had been lost in just 13 days. The Indian army, with rebel Bengali forces alongside, had made short work of Pakistani units in the east. President Yahya Khan and his advisers and generals had drifted through a year of diplomatic and military manoeuvres in a cloud of fantasy. Unreal calculations and unwise initiatives led to disaster. In a twinkling the Pakistan that had existed since 1948 was destroyed, Yahya went down with it,…

I should only speak for myself, but I am not sure we in the west had understood the war very well, waiting for a Pakistani offensive that never came and perhaps fooled by Yahya’s groundless air of confidence. But we thought the conflict had come out right. The Bangladeshis had got their freedom, and West Pakistan had got a new start in the shape of Bhutto, who bore some responsibility for the breakdown of relations between east and west, but was an able man and had a sound democratic base in what now remained of Pakistan.

As it turned out, a less than happy future awaited both halves of the country, and the consequences of the 1971 disaster are still working themselves out in the Pakistan of Pervez Musharraf. India got its triumph, but also a more embittered opponent

look at this map closely…look where Pakistan and Bangladesh are located…could pakistani army stationed in the West have helped their forces on the East…the Indians seem to be quite thrilled by the breakdown of Pakistan, in 1971 which was infact a blessing in disguise…it wasent feasible for Pakistan to keep hold over Bangladesh for a long time, and in 1971 even the mood of the Bengalese wasent favorable…so what result do you expect?

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/mapimages/indian_subcontinent/india/india.gif

what about the decisive battle veggie pie and the other extremist hindus are calling for?

Zaavia, I try to tell everyone, but normally no Pakistani wants to understand that Vajpayee called for a decisive battle against terrorism.

PT, Pakistan will have to test once more and prove again that it still has nukes, i.e. if US has not taken it out yet. :rotfl:

Do you think that Indians posted more than a million troops on the borders for eliminating terrorism, if it were so…has it (terrorism) been rooted out now, since the Indian forces have returned from the international borders…

**
Time for a decisive battle has come: Vajpayee
**Our Correspondent in Srinagar
**
Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee on Wednesday said the time has come for a decisive battle (against Pakistan).
**
Addressing armymen in Kupwara district in Jammu and Kashmir, Vajpayee said, “We want peace and India to be prosperous, but are forced to fight a war. We will win this war. Let there be no doubt about it.”

Close to 1000 soldiers were called from the LoC to hear Vajpayee’s speech.
**
Without naming Pakistan in his speech, Vajpayee said, “We tried all kind of peace efforts with our neighbour, but nothing worked with them.”

Referring to the Kargil war of 1999, he said, “They tried to capture our land but failed miserably. In the last 54 years whenever war was forced upon us, we have retaliated and won.”
**
“They did not take even the dead bodies of their soldiers after the Kargil war. But we gave them respect and buried them,” Vajpayee added.
**
“The enemy (Pakistan) does not fight us (directly). They are fighting a proxy war. They are preparing young men to fight in the name of jihad. They are employing mercenaries and do not come in front of us,” he said.

Vajpayee also said there was a limit to India’s tolerance of the proxy war it was facing (from Pakistan).

“Nobody should think that the threshold of our tolerance has no limit,” he said.

“The world understands that we have been wronged, but they are not coming out with their views openly. Hence we have to defend ourselves,” he said.

“My arrival here is indicative of something. Whether our neighbour understand it or not, whether the world takes note of it or not, but the history will record that we will write a new chapter of victory… there is no doubt about it,” he said.
**
Referring to the Kaluchak killing, he asked, “What kind of fight or struggle is this where mothers and children are massacred?”

The prime minister also praised the army saying the entire nation is behind them in their endeavour to guard the country’s borders.

With inputs from PTI

dont worry, we will test them on india this time…besides if pakistan has lost its nukes indians shouldnt worry, and carry on with the decisive battle, coz they already have superior logistics… :wink:

one thing everybody forgets despite both army facing each other
at the those critical times both sides did not provoke each other .
that shows the maturity and decipline of both armies.