Who is a Muslim

Society Religion & Philosophy
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What is your belief regarding Jesus(as)? Are you waiting for him to descend from the sky ascorted by two angels or something else?

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Re: Who is a Muslim

You may also wish to tune into MTA today (Sat17 Oct) at 4pm GMT for a live phone in Q&A session.

Muslim Television Ahmadiyya | MTA - Al Islam Online

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Thats irrelevant i think. If anyone claims to be the returning Jesus then he.she should provide proof backing himself up.

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your questions makes it automatically relevant. Do you think Jesus (AS) did not provide any proof to Jews when He (AS) claimed to be the Messiah? why then did they still reject Him ?

PS: The proofs or the ahadith referring to Hazrat Jesus (AS)'s second coming needs to be understood first. If they are not understood, you will never be able to see Jesus (AS) that you all are waiting for.

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Re: Who is a Muslim

^I hope you know that anyone can twist/interpret/declare Hadith untrusworthy, to suit himself. The way yu understand (read mis-interpret), i can prove that aramis is the promised messiah.

As for why Jews rejected Jesus, i dunno, ask jews and is irrelevant, i can discuss with you why i do not beleive in claim of Mirza Sahib.

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LOL.. Religious people generally seem very foolish. I mean do you even realize that nothing that you believe can even be proven? I mean, if you lok at Islam, what in Islam can you establish as verifiable fact? Absolutely nothing.
Its all assumption. So if your content with your assumptions about the validity of your beliefs, why do you not give others the same right?

You believe in your assumptions, and they believe their assumption.

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For everything they say we are given something to go back to them and reply."

Look at the index of the Qur'an and you’ll find that the word, qalu (they say), is found three hundred and thirty-two times. Now, what would be the natural counterpart? The Arabic word, qul, which is the command 'say' and you will find at the index it also occurs three hundred and thirty-two times. (Index of the Quran has only been available since 1940s).

Verses in the Qur'an claim that the author of Qur'an was present when the universe first appeared, when life first began billions of years ago.

We have a right to question this claim. We ask the author, "Well tell us something to prove to us that YOU were there when the world began, life began."

In reply to our challenge; the Quran says;

"Have not the disbelievers seen that the Heavens and the Earth were one piece and we parted them? And We made every living thing from water. Will they not then believe?" (21:30)

There are 3 key points in (21:30). First of all, it is the disbelievers who are mentioned as being those who would discover that the heavens and the earth were one piece and then parted and it is the DISBELIEVERS (non-Muslims) who will DISCOVER that all life came to be made from water.

Coincidentally, the universally accepted theory of 'the origin of the universe' is now the BIG BANG THEORY. It maintains that at one time ALL OF HEAVENS AND THE EARTH were one piece, the 'monoblock' as it is called. At a particular point in time, this 'monoblock' burst and it continues to expand. This is the origin of the universe we have today.

This is a recent confirmation.

The Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded only a few years ago to those who confirmed the Big Bang Theory origin of the universe. It was only 200 years ago that Leeuwenhoek and others perfected the microscope and discovered for the first time that living cells are composed of 80% water.

The above information which was scientifically confirmed only in the last 2 centuries, can be found in the Qur'an which originated 14 centuries ago! Could it then have been written by an ordinary man or can it only be the work of God?

Does this not prove that the author of the Qur'an, has indeed met the challenge, "Was He there when the universe began, when life began."

In Chapter 51, verse 47, it is mentioned that the heavens are expanding. It was in 1973 that the Nobel prize was awarded to three men who were confirming that, after all, the universe is expanding.

The Qur'an mentions a city by the name of Iram (89:7). The city of Iram has been unknown to History, so unknown that even Muslim commentators, out of embarrassment or feeling apologetic for their religion, have commented on this mention of the city in the Qur'an as being perhaps figurative, that Iram was possibly a man and not a city.

In 1973, the excavation in Syria at the site of the ancient city of Eblus uncovered the largest collection of cuneiform writings on clay tablets ever assembled. In fact, the library discovered in Eblus contains more clay tablets that are more than four thousand years old than all the other tablets combined from all other sites.

Interestingly enough, you will find the details in the National Geographic of 1978 which confirms that in those tablets the city of Iram is mentioned. The people of Eblus used to do business with the people of Iram. So here in 1973, comes confirmation of the fact that, after all, there really was an ancient city by that name, wherever it was. How did it find its way into the Qur'an, we might ask?

Many centuries before the onset of Muhammed's Prophethood, there was a well-known theory of atomism advanced by the Greek philosopher, Democritus. He and the people who came after him assumed that matter consists of tiny, indestructible, indivisible particles called atoms. The Arabs too, used to deal in thesame concept; in fact, the Arabic word dharrah commonly referred to the smallest particle known to man.

Now, modern science has discovered that this smallest unit of matter (i.e., the atom, which has all of the same properties as its element) can be split into its component parts. This is a new idea, a development of the last century; yet, interestingly enough, this information had already been discovered recently.

"He * is aware of an atom's weight in the heavens and on the earth and even anything smaller than that..."

There are many challenges offered in the Quran. Some of them are old [in the sense that circumstances have changed now], other exist till today. To give you an example of each;

The Islamic point of view is that when a man embraces Islam, his past is forgiven from the very beginning. This has been the invitation to Islam: come to Islam and all is forgiven from the past. But consider this. There is only one enemy of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, who is mentioned by name in the Qur'an: one Abu Lahab. In a short chapter of this book, he is condemned to punishment for his sins.

This man hated Islam to such an extent that he used to follow the Prophet around in order to discredit him. If Abu Lahab saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) speaking to a stranger, he would wait until they parted and then would go to the stranger and ask him, "What did he tell you? Did he say, 'Black.'? Well, it's white. Did he say, 'Morning.'? Well, it's night

As it happens, the man himself was alive for many years after this revelation. He could therefore have finished Islam very easily. He needed only to go to the Muslims to announce his conversion. They had in their hands the revelation which said that this man is doomed to punishment. He could have gone to Muslims and say: "I accept Islam, am I forgiven or not?"

He could have confused them so much as to finish this small movement because he would have been pointing out to them that they were now in confusion. The policy was instant forgiveness of the past, but their own revealed scripture announced that he was not forgiven. That is exactly the kind of behaviour one would have expected from him since he always sought to contradict Islam. As it was, Abu Lahab died without accepting Islam.

Example of a challenges that stands still date;

Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy. (4:82)

Quran claims that it is inimitable;.

I’ll only quote what some Non-Muslim scholars of Arabic/Islam has to say;

Arthur J Arberry:

"Briefly, the rhetoric and rhythm of the Arabic of the Koran are so characteristic, so powerful, so highly emotive, that any version whatsoever is bound in the nature of things to be but a poor copy of the glittering splendour of the original."

Stubbe:

The truth is I do not find any understanding author who controverts the elegance of Al Qur'an, it being generally esteemed as the standard of the Arabic language and eloquence."

Dawood (Iraqi Jewish Scholar)

The Koran is the earliest and by far the finest work of Classical Arabic prose. It is acknowledged that the Koran is not only one of the most influential books of prophetic literature but also a literary masterpiece in its own right. Translations have, in my opinion, practically failed to convey both the meaning and the rhetorical grandeur of the original."

Zammit:

"Notwithstanding the literary excellence of some of the long pre-Islamic poems, or qasaid, the Qur'an is definitely on a level of its own as the most eminent written manifestation of the Arabic language."

Hirschfield:

"The Qur'an is unapproachable as regards convincing power eloquence and even composition."

Sells,

"There is a quality to the sound of the Qur'an which anyone familiar with it in Arabic can recognize. Qur'anic commentators have discussed the power and beauty of this sound. Is one of the key aspects of the science of analysing ijaz al-Qur'an (the inimitability of the Qur'an)."

Palmer:

"That the best of Arab writers has never succeeded in producing anything equal in merit to the Qur'an itself is not surprising"

An interesting feature of the Qur'an is that it replies to critics as to its origin. That is, no one has yet come up with suggestion as to where this book came from which is not commented on within the book itself.

Is the Quran copied from Jewish and Christian scriptures? (let’s examine that claim briefly here)

In the Qur'an, the ruler of Egypt who opposed Moses is known as Fir'aun, not Pharaoh. The Jews and Christians have always said 'Pharaoh'. It is easy for an Arab to say 'Pharaoh'. But in the Qur'an, it is Fir'aun, with an 'n'. Why? Surely the Jews must have teased them about that and said: "You've got the word wrong. It's 'Pharaoh' and not Fir'aun." But they insisted on it and it continues that way in the Qur'an, Fir'aun.

As it happens, this historical writings of Herodotus, the Greek historian, exist to this day, and Herodotus comments on the ruler of Egypt, being in his day and in the centuries before him, one man who went by the title of Fir'aun.

Some people may like to find any number of things in the Qur'an. But an honest method in examining this book, looking for evidence of the Divine origin, is to take things at their value, to look for things that are clear and to look in those places where we are invited to look, like the passage: "Have not the disbelievers seen..." This a common phrase of the Qur'an: "O Man, Have you not seen." The invitation is to examine the evidence in these places. We are doing the sensible thing if we examine the words used to look for the meaning and to find evidence of the Divine origin.*

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If you are not religious.. is it your hobby to get into debates that you have no knowledge on? why get yourself into stuff to which you have no information on?

Read about why Jews rejected Jesus , and you get your answers.

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The Quran states VERY, VERY CLEARLY that Muhammad is the last prophet, meaning a scripture-bearing messenger, but not the last messenger (33:40). Messengers confirm scriptures (3:81) prophets bring scriptures (3:81). If he claims to be messenger, he must provide incontrovertible proof of authorization from GOD. In other words, a miracle as all messengers come with miracles as credentials from GOD. The Ahmedi founder has NOT provided any such proof. If he claims to be a PROPHET and brought a new scripture he is a liar. The Ahmedi founder made this claim, thus is a liar. It is as simple as that.

submitmj

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Re: Who is a Muslim

submitmj, what kind of 'miracles' do you want from a messenger? Why couldn't jews see Jesus AS's miracles? why couldnt Christians and jews see Muhammad PBUH's miracles?

People who choose to shut their eyes themselves will never be able to see any miracle

You dont see solar and lunar eclipse being the heavenly sign
You dont see number of Prophet Muhammad PBUH's prophecies being fulfilled etc..

Its just a matter of realizing them. Prophet Muhammad PBUH also did not go to heavens and brought for the disbelievers a book from heaven even after their request. What was the reply?.. "I am nothing but a messenger".

Time Pass - جولائی - رمضان کا مہینہ
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Re: Who is a Muslim

Peace All

I would prefer people to curb their mudslinging and deal with discussions without doing takfir.

I think the argument presented by the Ahmadi brothers that we reject Isa (AS) just like all previous prophets were rejected, to be an oversimplification of the facts presented to us in hadith.

There are narrations that state Isa (AS) will abolish the Jizyah and the whole world will become Muslim. This means that many people will become Muslim or Muslims will become aligned and corrected to my understanding. It also means that the hypothetical argument of anybody rejecting Isa (AS) when he does appear for the second coming will be only those few who will be fighting against the truth.

Another narration states that his (AS)'s breath will penetrate the battlefield and people will come into the fold of Islam in masses. This prophecy was not fulfilled. I am expecting many people rush to embrace Islam when Sayyiduna Isa (AS) returns.

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How long it took Islam to get 1/4 of population to become Muslim?

When will Isa (A.S) decends from heaven? Many scholars say 1400 century.

Many people will come into fold of Islam Prophecy does not have a time limit. Hence you cannot simply say that it is not fulfilled.

Isa (A.S) breath will penetrate the battle fields story and taking literal meaning is nothing better then what our Hindu friend think of Mahaa Bharat. Perhaps you need to understand the metaphircal meaning of this.

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I am not interested in jews, i can tell you why muslim reject Mirza sahib and answeryour objections if you have any. Cmon don't shy away.

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Re: Who is a Muslim

they reject Mirza Sahib because they belong to the progeny of jews who rejected Isa (as).

this is the white clear answer and you cannot deny it.

time pass...WELCOME AUGUST ~*~ پاکستان زِنده با د‎ ~*~
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First of all, Hazrat Mirza sahib (as) didn't bring a new scripture nor did he make such claim.

Many of signs of his truthfulness are listed in Haqeeqat-ul-Wahi. Available online. you can read and see for yourself.

What miracles or signs did mr. rashad khalifa present in support for his truthfulness ? If I am not wrong, he rejected two verses of quran on numerology basis. Hazrat mirza sahib (as) said that Quran is in its pristine form and no verse can be rejected.
How long did he live after claiming to be a messenger of Allah?