what a stupid question its like saying who wants 1 million dollars for free!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
what a stupid question its like saying who wants 1 million dollars for free!
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Islamic economic ethics reject undue concern for materialistic accumulation. Also, it would depend on whether or not you are a Muslim as to how much of that $1 million would be taxed, adding more disincentive for the non-believer.
???
2.5% tax in islamic system appeals to both non muslims and muslims
Historically, Islam distinguishes between the direct taxation of Muslims and non-Muslims. I would be thrilled if in your khalifa utopia, there is no discriminatory practice of collectiing extra taxes from non-Muslims.
What happened to the rest of this topic, like all of it?
Hopefully near the nude beach.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mo_best: *
What happened to the rest of this topic, like all of it?
[/QUOTE]
Houdini magic made it disappear...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Historically, Islam distinguishes between the direct taxation of Muslims and non-Muslims. I would be thrilled if in your khalifa utopia, there is no discriminatory practice of collectiing extra taxes from non-Muslims.
[/QUOTE]
some technical glitch. if you look at the post it still says 20 replies. if they were deleted it would have listed only the 7-8 posts you see as the number of posts.
If I can indulge in some high quality fun, I wont mind living in an Islamic state.
I can only imagine an "Islamic state" from the actions of the muslims I have seen. We can not divorce the two, cz the muslims in an "Islamic state" will be the same people who live in various parts of the world right now. The implementors of the "Islamic state" will also be from the same muslims. They won't come from heavens. Whatever flaws the current-age muslims have will automatically be transferred over to this "state". There is just no way you can brandish a utopian "Islamic state" without acknolwedging the current state of muslims around the world.
The two closest examples I have seen for a strict Islamic rule are Afghanistan (under Talibaan) and implementation of Islamic sharia in Saudi Arabia and parts of Nigeria. None of them is/was perfect, but if they are a specimen of what some of the participants here regard as "Islamic state", then I would excuse myself. No hard feelings.
I would live in an islamic state, depending on whose version of islamic state it is. if its my view that its a just, open society, with law and order and no cumpulsion, with a system of social service and responsibility and government accountability.
Thats what i consider an islamic state to be. where our views and rules are not thrust upon others. If you recall non-muslims were not tried by muslim rules but by their own.
if its the type of psedo-ismaic state every 2 bit mullah wants where they mullahs rule as dictators ala taleban, or with no personal freedom like in Saudi Arabia. I would stay as far away as possible.
I have noted this before but on the principles of social justice, welfare of the people, non-cumpulsion, etc etc US follows the spirit of islam more than muslim countries.
So its a technical glitch-no bigge, thats cool.
Like I said, an Islamic state whch was a unified state consisting of all the muslim nations, but with modern laws and less demands of its citizens, that would be cool.
A sharia state, no thanks. Its too hard, I'd get beaten too often.
ill pitch in my two cents of this "lets go off topic" campaign
here i go : I LIKE CHOCOLATE
Mr. Fraudia and Faisal :k:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
I can only imagine an "Islamic state" from the actions of the muslims I have seen. We can not divorce the two, cz the muslims in an "Islamic state" will be the same people who live in various parts of the world right now. The implementors of the "Islamic state" will also be from the same muslims. They won't come from heavens. Whatever flaws the current-age muslims have will automatically be transferred over to this "state". There is just no way you can brandish a utopian "Islamic state" without acknolwedging the current state of muslims around the world.
The two closest examples I have seen for a strict Islamic rule are Afghanistan (under Talibaan) and implementation of Islamic sharia in Saudi Arabia and parts of Nigeria. None of them is/was perfect, but if they are a specimen of what some of the participants here regard as "Islamic state", then I would excuse myself. No hard feelings.
[/QUOTE]
Faisal
I disagree on your point because the muslims you see today are a result of the society they live in today and that society if kufr. If you live for example in pakistan where we get cable tv showing filth 24/7 then what you expect the people to do!
Islamic state will not change people overnight it will be change non the less. And it not as impossible as people imagine if people in pakistan, nigeria, indonesia, egypt etc can live currently as they are in a state with kufr laws which they hate why can they not live in a state implementing islam which is the laws they want and crying for!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif1924: *
Faisal
I disagree on your point because the muslims you see today are a result of the society they live in today and that society if kufr. If you live for example in pakistan where we get cable tv showing filth 24/7 then what you expect the people to do!
Islamic state will not change people overnight it will be change non the less. And it not as impossible as people imagine if people in pakistan, nigeria, indonesia, egypt etc can live currently as they are in a state with kufr laws which they hate why can they not live in a state implementing islam which is the laws they want and crying for!
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Saif,
Going by your example, do you mean to say that in the "Islamic state" there will be no cable TV or magazines or other such things which are deemed harmful to the society or makes it kufr?
Do you also mean to say that the "Islamic state" will not prohibit such things immediately but will gradually stop such activities?
I am most interested in your thoughts.
Secondly, I was not alive a few hundred years ago to witness a true "Islamic state" so my perceptions are obviously based on the quality of muslims I see around or the experiments in implementing Islamic sharia I have seen. Reading books, writing speeches etc is one thing and actually implementing something, is obviously more tricky.
ps. Lets not go into the debate what muslims all over the world want, as there is no way for you or me to appoint us as their spokesmen. Lets just talk about what "we" think and believe in.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Do you also mean to say that the "Islamic state" will not prohibit such things immediately but will gradually stop such activities?
I am most interested in your thoughts.
Secondly, I was not alive a few hundred years ago to witness a true "Islamic state" so my perceptions are obviously based on the quality of muslims I see around or the experiments in implementing Islamic sharia I have seen. Reading books, writing speeches etc is one thing and actually implementing something, is obviously more tricky.
ps. Lets not go into the debate what muslims all over the world want, as there is no way for you or me to appoint us as their spokesmen. Lets just talk about what "we" think and believe in.
[/QUOTE]
Faisal
there certainly won't be the filth you get on cabel tv at the moment yes it will take time to root out all the problems. There will be digital tv and latest technology such as 3G networks because islam encourage this but also discourage abuse and corruption.
I also was not alive hundred years ago. You can only percive what you have lived through. People in the streets point this example to me everytime in the internet cafes of pakistan the youth lot of them watching pornography. The people say it impossible to establish islamic state here i turn to them and say they are muslim they can be worked on time of muhammad(saw) they were not even muslim they where idol worshippers.
You change the society the system and the government you will have complete change. And it is easier than you think people say it impossible look at europe they have many different languages different way of life, food etc yet they establishing very soon a strong European Union. Even america used to fight each other all the time now they united. So this talk of impossible i dont accept it only for weak minded or people who have no vision.
As for what ummah wants i use that because you ask any sincere muslim these questions
Are you against kufr laws and man made system like democracy
Do you want to get rid of corrupt rulers in muslim lands
Do you want islamic state
Will you fight jihad if asked
I am sure you will have 4 yes's every time!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif1924: *
Faisal
I disagree on your point because the muslims you see today are a result of the society they live in today and that society if kufr. If you live for example in pakistan where we get cable tv showing filth 24/7 then what you expect the people to do!
Islamic state will not change people overnight it will be change non the less. And it not as impossible as people imagine if people in pakistan, nigeria, indonesia, egypt etc can live currently as they are in a state with kufr laws which they hate why can they not live in a state implementing islam which is the laws they want and crying for!
[/QUOTE]
Looking at your comments tells me that people living in these societies can only be evil/devil, where will we get our "Khalifa" from? is he being nurtured/brougt up in some isolated Island and still getting best of the education/experience to deal with current world?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif1924: *
there certainly won't be the filth you get on cabel tv at the moment yes
[/QUOTE]
Do you have to watch the "filth" just because it is available? Change the channel? If not, what about the Internet? It has "filth" too. Why not stop using it too?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
I would live in an islamic state, depending on whose version of islamic state it is. if its my view that its a just, open society, with law and order and no cumpulsion, with a system of social service and responsibility and government accountability.
Thats what i consider an islamic state to be. where our views and rules are not thrust upon others. If you recall non-muslims were not tried by muslim rules but by their own.
if its the type of psedo-ismaic state every 2 bit mullah wants where they mullahs rule as dictators ala taleban, or with no personal freedom like in Saudi Arabia. I would stay as far away as possible.
I have noted this before but on the principles of social justice, welfare of the people, non-cumpulsion, etc etc US follows the spirit of islam more than muslim countries.
[/QUOTE]
It really sums it all up....