Who Are These 'Boys' in Paradise?

Andhra · February 28, 2002, 3:38pm

Whenever I talk about Koran, the usual response I found is a request for the Koranic Verse concerned.

So, this time I decided to quote the verse and start the discussion.

Here’s the verse. THis verse describes the rewards for Believers in Islamic Heaven after roundly castigating the unbelievers, saying they will burn in hell!!
It describes being served Ginger Flavored Water in Silver Dishes and…

Man 76:15 They shall be attended by Boys graced with etrnal youth, who to the beholder’s eyes will seem like sprinkled perals. When you gaze upon that scene you will behold a kingdom blissful and glorious.<<
(From The Koran, Penguin Classics. Translation by N.J. Dawood Page 18)

So what does this verse mean?
I await responses especially from Pakistaniabroad, Ahmedjee and Xtreme and other resident experts of this Forum.

Ever THe Curious Brahmin

Andhra!!!

ahmadjee · February 28, 2002, 3:54pm

Andhra, you sure need another copy of the translation:

Here is the same chapter from this web site

76: 1. In the name of ALLAH, the Gracious, the Merciful.

76: 2. There has, certainly, come upon man a period of time when he was not a thing worth mentioning.

76: 3. WE have created man from a mingled sperm-drop that WE might try him; so WE made him hearing, seeing.

76: 4. WE have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful.

76: 5. Verily, WE have prepared for the disbelievers chains and iron-collars and blazing Fire.

76: 6. But the virtuous shall drink of a cup, tempered with camphor -

76: 7. From a spring wherefrom the servants of ALLAH will drink - they make it gush forth - a forceful gushing forth.

76: 8. They fulfil their vow, and fear a day the evil of which is widespread.

76: 9. And they feed, for love of HIM, the poor, the orphan and the prisoner;

76: 10. Assuring them: `WE feed you to win ALLAH’s pleasure only. We desire no reward nor thanks from you.

76: 11. `Verily, we fear from our Lord a frowning, distressful day.’

76: 12. So ALLAH will save them from the evil of that day, and will grant them joy and happiness.

76: 13. And HE will reward them for their steadfastness, with a Garden and raiments of silk,

76: 14. Reclining therein upon couches, they will experience therein neither excessive heat nor bitter cold.

76: 15. And its shades will be close over them, and its clustered fruits will be brought within their easy reach.

76: 16. And vessels of silver will be passed round among them, and goblets

76: 17. Bright as glass but made of silver, which they will measure according to their own measure.

76: 18. And therein will they be given to drink a cup tempered with ginger,

76: 19. From a spring named Salsab¯l.

76: 20. And there will wait upon them youths who will not age. When thou seest them, thou thinkest them to be pearls scattered about.

76: 21. And when thou seest, thou wilt see there a bliss and a vast kingdom.

76: 22. On them will be garments of fine green silk and thick brocade. And they will be made to wear bracelets of silver. And their Lord will give them to drink a pure beverage.

76: 23. They will be told: `This is your reward, and your effort is appreciated.’

76: 24. Surely, WE have revealed unto thee the Qur’an piecemeal.

76: 25. So wait patiently for the judgment of thy Lord and yield not to any sinful or ungrateful one among them,

76: 26. And remember the name of thy Lord morning and evening,

76: 27. And during the night prostrate thyself before HIM, and extol HIS glory for a long part of the night.

76: 28. Verily, these people love the present life, and they neglect a very hard day ahead.

76: 29. WE have created them and have strengthened their make; and when WE will, WE can replace them by others like them.

76: 30. Verily, this is a Reminder. So whoever wishes, may take a way unto his Lord.

76: 31. But you cannot so wish unless ALLAH so wills. Verily, ALLAH is All-Knowing, Wise.

76: 32. HE admits into HIS mercy whom HE pleases and for the wrongdoers HE has prepared a painful punishment.

And here is from another website!

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Has there not been over Man a long period of Time, when he was nothing - (not even) mentioned?

Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight.

We showed him the Way: whether he be grateful or ungrateful.

For the Rejecters we have prepared Chains, Yokes, and a Blazing Fire.

As to the Righteous, they shall drink of a Cup mixed with Kafür,-

A Fountain where the Devotees of Allah do drink, making it flow in unstinted abundance.

They perform (their) vows, and they fear a Day whose evil flies far and wide.

And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive,-

(Saying),"We feed you for the sake of Allah alone: no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks.

“We only fear a Day of frowning and distress from the side of our Lord.”

But Allah will deliver them from the evil of that Day, and will shed over them a brightness and (blissful) Joy.

And because they were patient and constant, He will reward them with a Garden and (garments of) silk.

Reclining in the (Garden) on raised crouches, they will see there neither the sun’s (excessive heat) nor excessive cold.

And the shades of the (Garden) will come low over them, and the bunches (of fruit), there, will hang low easy to reach.

And amongst them will be passed round vessels of silver and goblets of crystal,-

Crystal-clear, made of silver: they will determine the measure thereof (according to their wishes).

And they will be given to drink there of a Cup mixed with Zanjabíl,-

A fountain there, called Salsabíl.

And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness): If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls.

And when thou lookest, it is there thou wilt see a Bliss and a Realm Magnificent.

Upon them will be green Garments of fine silk and heavy brocade, and they will be adorned with Bracelets of silver; and their Lord will give to them to drink of a pure drink.

“Verily this is a Reward for you, and your Endeavor is accepted and recognized.”

It is We Who have sent down the Qurán to thee by stages.

Therefore be patient with constancy to the Command of thy Lord, and obey not to the sinner or the ingrate among them.

And celebrate the name or thy Lord morning and evening,

And part of the night, prostrate thyself to Him; and glorify Him a long night through.

As to these, they love the fleeting life, and put away behind them a Day (that will be) hard.

It is We Who created them, and We have made their frame strong; but, when We shall exchange their likes.

This is an admonition: Whosoever will, let him take a (straight) Path to his Lord.

But ye will not, except as Allah wills; for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

He will admit to His Mercy Whom He will; but the wrong-doers,- for them has He prepared a grievous Chastisement.

Now feel free to quote from above & ask question!

Andhra · February 28, 2002, 4:20pm

Ahmedjee,
Your first site is an Ahmadiya site. I understand there are problems there. None of my business. I am just an inncent Hindu/Brahmin

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Both the translations seem to agree on youths serving ginger ale in Paradise.

Here is another one that says the ‘Youth’ are Boys!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Although the Qu’ran does not have verse explicitly in favor of homosexuality, it does have verses which show awareness of male beauty. These are promises made to Muslim men who make it to Heaven.

SURA LII:24

“And there shall wait on them [the Muslim men] young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls.”

SURA LXXVI:19

“They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who will seem like scattered pearls to the beholders.”<<<

This is from Virginia Tech’s Koran etext collection!!
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/quran-homo.html

Now I won’t bother you with anti-Islamic websites nor the sites of pro-Islamic guys suggesting even though these are boys, the relations are strictly platonic!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

ammarr · February 28, 2002, 4:33pm

Andhra, this is such a stupid question that one shouldn't even bother answering.

These 'boys' are there to serve the people in jannah. What is so confusing about this? Are you suggesting that if you had a boy servant serving you, you would have a homosexual relationship with him?

Andhra · February 28, 2002, 4:39pm

Oh I see, the same Koran talks about 'Eternal Bashful Virgins' too!!

And the book doesn't say anywhere that they are just 'Servants'!!

In any case why would you have 'Boys Like Pearls' and 'Bashful Virgins' as Servants.

What's wrong with old men and women?

samb · February 28, 2002, 4:42pm

Andhra you jealous?

No way...

ammarr · February 28, 2002, 4:46pm

Andhra, once i get there, I'll make a special request to have you as my servant. Are you happier now?

The context it is in says: 'the boys will go around to serve them'. Virginity is only a marker for purity, or anything clean. Any more low remarks from your side will only serve as a testimony to your stupidity. :)

samb · February 28, 2002, 4:53pm

ammar, dude not fair. keeping Andhra all for yourself?

On second thought you can keep him and his razor sharp wit.

Andhra · February 28, 2002, 4:56pm

Andhra you jealous?
No way…<<

sambrialian bhai, Assalam Alaikum

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Well, yes. I am jealous about the virgin part and concerned about the ‘Boys’ part.

Tell me, since all aspects of life are covered in your scriptures, do they say anything about the ethncity of these ‘Boys Like Thrown Pearls’ ?

samb · February 28, 2002, 5:11pm

yeah, so the way it happens is that you get to fill out a form before you go heaven.

There is a section where you indicate the ethnicity of the whatever you want. If you don't fill out the section, by default you get someone from your own ethnicity.

Speculation is that Andhras are high on the demand list and waiting list have to be formed.

Andhra · February 28, 2002, 5:25pm

yeah, so the way it happens is that you get to fill out a form before you go heaven.
There is a section where you indicate the ethnicity of the whatever you want. If you don’t fill out the section, by default you get someone from your own ethnicity.
Speculation is that Andhras are high on the demand list and waiting list have to be formed.<<

Sambrialian bhai,
Naaraz Ho Gaya Aaap!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Kitab To Aap Ka Hi Hain To Mein Kya Karoon!!

Anyway, Andhras are never known to be big on sodomy either at giving or receiving ends!!

So if somebody demands Andhras he will be disappointed.!!!

I will suggest Kandahar!! Rumor has it that Birds fly with only one wing when they are in Kandahar!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

dirty_dawg · February 28, 2002, 5:36pm

Andhra Now i know why u r so confused.. "cause u are a non muslim"..
very confused
and totaly blind
lost in deception
u know why u don understand
cause 1) u r a kafir and 2) u r not as smart as Allah .. and Quran is the prof for that.

samb · February 28, 2002, 5:36pm

"Naaraz Ho Gaya Aaap!!

Kitab To Aap Ka Hi Hain To Mein Kya Karoon!!"

Andhra mian, hamari aisi kya majal saeein.

"Anyway, Andhras are never known to be big on sodomy either at giving or receiving ends!!
So if somebody demands Andhras he will be disappointed.!!!"

Who said anything about sodomy? Is it some sort of a sick custom where all servants and helpers in Bharat end up "satisfying" their employers? Does it happen in big companies too? I assume you wrok for one. Please, share your experiences.

"I will suggest Kandahar!! Rumor has it that Birds fly with only one wing when they are in Kandahar!!"

See now, what's real funny is the fact in the Taliban days, all this was put to an end. Strange how ppl curse the Taliban in one place only to praise them indirectly at another.

Andhra · February 28, 2002, 6:08pm

Who said anything about sodomy? Is it some sort of a sick custom where all servants and helpers in Bharat end up “satisfying” their employers? Does it happen in big companies too? I assume you wrok for one. Please, share your experiences.<<

Sambaralian bhai,
No it is not a ‘Bharati’ custom. It is not part of ‘Work Ethic’ either !!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

As for the rest. Please refer to my post in answer to Ahmadjee in the same thread.
I gave translations by one Richard Burton, which is part of Virginia Tech’s ‘etext’ Koran!!!

Now, I am just a poor ‘Bharati’ Brahmin. I don’t decide VIrgina Tech’s curriculum nor is my name Richard Burton!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Having said that, I await your ‘interpretation’ of those verses.

Mind you, these kind of verses seem to be widely quoted and being a friend of Muslims, I am just concerned.

ahmadjee · February 28, 2002, 6:24pm

Andhra,

You are very unfamiliar with the readings of the Holy Scriptures & I am not at all surprised at your confusion on these verses. That is one of the reasons you don't believe your own scriptures to hold any value, until unless you want something that is according to your own desires.

Like you quoted Upanishad the other day because it went along well with your present belief of 'Brahmanism' but you will probably reject it as nothing more than stories if I put forward some quotes.

Anyway, here the Quainc verses are talking about a spiritual world totally different from this material world, where you & I live in! While explaining to us the term used are metaphor or parable and should not be taken work by word as you did or the sources you quoted! When it is said that the believers will go to Heaven, it means their spirit, not their actual Human body! And in Islam spirit has no gender.

Do you believe your soul has a gender?

appkiamaanat · February 28, 2002, 6:32pm

I never came across the ayah you mentioned, but here is a similar ayah.

56:17-19

Immortal boys will go around them, With cups, and jugs, and a glass of flowing wine, Wherefrom they will get neither any aching of the head, nor any intoxication.

This translation is from the Noble Quran.

Nobody really knows much about these 'little boys' some scholars believe that they will be kids who died before reaching puberty.

I hope that helps, may Allah lead you to the right path.

Andhra · February 28, 2002, 6:38pm

Andhra,
You are very unfamiliar with the readings of the Holy Scriptures & I am not at all surprised at your confusion on these verses.
That is one of the reasons you don't believe your own scriptures to hold any value, until unless you want something that is according to your own desires.
Like you quoted Upanishad the other day because it went along well with your present belief of 'Brahmanism' but you will probably reject it as nothing more than stories if I put forward some quotes. <<

No I won't. I am willing to admit that all Hindu scriptures talking about inferior Castes and mistreating women may be true but not applicable.

If you understand the thought process behind such assertions, you will understand Hinduism.

You see one should be like a Swan. In Indian mythology Swan is supposed to be able to separate milk from water if it is given a mixture of both.
SO one should be able to distinguish between good and bad in scriptures or anything else.

You ofcourse believe in 'Revealed' words, so it's different for you.

Anyway, here the Quainc verses are talking about a spiritual world totally different from this material world, where you & I live in! While explaining to us the term used are metaphor or parable and should not be taken work by word as you did or the sources you quoted! When it is said that the believers will go to Heaven, it means their spirit, not their actual Human body! And in Islam spirit has no gender.<<

Pleez. DOn't you think it is self contradictory?
What is a 'spirit', 'NOT body' doing with Silverware, Virgins and Ginger scented water?
Come On!!
Anyway some Muslims atleast seem to take it literally. I once saw an interview on PBS with Afghan Mujahideen where he claimed he will get virgins and boys in heaven if he does Jihad!!

Much as you criticize Hinduism, I don't think there are any HIndus who believe they will go to heaven if they kill Non-Hindus!!

Do you believe your soul has a gender?<<

I don't know. I personally believe in reaching Shiva if I am fortunate enough.

ahmadjee · February 28, 2002, 6:52pm

[quote]
What is a 'spirit', 'NOT body' doing with Silverware, Virgins and Ginger scented water?

[/quote]

You are on the right track! Give it a little more thought and when you get it ... explain it to those Mullahs who take it literally.

[quote]
I once saw an interview on PBS with Afghan Mujahideen where he claimed he will get virgins and boys in heaven if he does Jihad!!
[/quote]

Maybe you need to change your source of information. Tomorrow, a Hindu friend of mine tells me that my fish is his grandfather reincarnated, should I believe him?

[quote]
If you understand the thought process
[/quote]

Andhra, the problem with the thought process is that it is the 'collective consensus' of a bunch of people who have the right to go 180 degrees opposite if a few days later they find out that the first idea/belief was not such a good way to go. It compromises divinity or 'eternal truth'

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited February 28, 2002).]

Andhra · February 28, 2002, 7:10pm

Why Ahmedjee,

And you kinda agreed with my question on what Astral bodies are doing with silverware and virgins and said

explain it to the Mullahs who take it literally<<

And yet You said about Hindu beliefs

It compromises divinity or 'eternal truth'<<

You see, if indeed you believe in the 'eternal truth' and that Koran consists of it and yet your beliefs are in contradiction to Mullah's then either you or the Mullahs are right because Koran is the eternal truth!!!

Hinduism I think avoids such contradictions by avoiding revealed Words!!

dirty_dawg · February 28, 2002, 7:35pm

Andhra wht ever u say about hinduism or ur ideas may seem true... "why!" cause those are man made ideas like ur statues are.. and easy to understand and in the reach of men's knowledge and understandings..
Every thing in Quran is sent to us by Allah.. Who has the most knowledge..a lot more than we know and way far from our understandings.. We are now able to understand many of Allah's teachings in Quran.. as we are progressing in science.. we still need to learn a lot.. But we will never be able to learn every thing...

and one more thing.. plz dont try to twist Allah's Ayas..

[This message has been edited by dirty_dawg (edited February 28, 2002).]