calm down Das. I asked you to show me what merits they have that makes them better than other kings. I guess the answer is quite simple.
read mainstream history books on islamic history names like tabari, yaqubi, baladhuri,dinwari, ibn athir and dhabai historical works
we have discussed this before u keep going round in circles
^Wilayat and leadership of Imam Ali was prescribed by the God and his Messenger. Thus, there is absolutely no comparision between him and the other man-made kings who came to power by deceit, lies, and force.
Thats your faith and does nto stand to reason and logic. While you have every right to beleive in whatever you want to beleive, there is no evidence that rule of Imam Ali was better than those of Abu Bakr ra and Omer ra and the historians of the world testify to that.
read mainstream history books on islamic history names like tabari, yaqubi, baladhuri,dinwari, ibn athir and dhabai historical works
we have discussed this before u keep going round in circles
I have read quite a few tales of the kings of this world. Some highlight more of the good side of the king and others focus more on the bad, while others remain somewhat balanced (depending on the mood, nature and agenda of the pen holder).
If Abu Bakr, Umar were not like the other kings then the basis of their 'Caliphate' should not be the history books only but primarily the Quran and Sunnat must prove it. This is the basic point of disagreement Das, and hence we keep going round and round as you said.
Thats your faith and does nto stand to reason and logic. While you have every right to beleive in whatever you want to beleive, there is no evidence that rule of Imam Ali was better than those of Abu Bakr ra and Omer ra and the historians of the world testify to that.
DD, what do you know about my faith? on what grounds do you consider my faith without reason and logic? You could disagree with my view but you are in no position to judge or invalidate my faith.
The rule of Imam Ali (as) starts right after the death of the Prophet. If you would like to discuss his Wilayat/Imamat then we could start a discussion from the source of your choice: Quran, Sunnat, or historical facts.
By the way, I am of the opinion that the idea that Allah and his Prophet left the people without a guide or clear model of leadership is the one without reason, logic, and -frankly- quite absurd.
If Abu Bakr, Umar were not like the other kings then the basis of their 'Caliphate' should not be the history books only but primarily the Quran and Sunnat must prove it. This is the basic point of disagreement Das, and hence we keep going round and round as you said.
well that depends on YOUR selective interpretation of sunnah ....
and u rightly said our basic point of disagreement is nature of leadership ( i.e the concept of imamat) and without settling this all other discussing all distracters is pointless
Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?
There is no need to be selective Das. There is nothing to choose from as there is not basis for their caliphate from either the Quran or Sunnat.
^ ur the one who is claiming they are "my kings" where did i show support for these kings ? bear in mind sayyidna abu bakr /umar are caliphs not kings
Das reich do u beleive abu bakar and umar were better options for Khilafat compared to Imam Ali a.s ?
The rule of Imam Ali (as) starts right after the death of the Prophet. If you would like to discuss his Wilayat/Imamat then we could start a discussion from the source of your choice: Quran, Sunnat, or historical facts.
By the way, I am of the opinion that the idea that Allah and his Prophet left the people without a guide or clear model of leadership is the one without reason, logic, and -frankly- quite absurd.
Don't jump to a different thing now. Hz Ali only became a ruler after Hz Othman, if you claim that he was a better choice then prove how his rule was better than rule of Hz Abu Bakr and Hz Omer.
Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?
^DD, if you have time and wish to find more about the Shia view of Khilafat then visit al-islam.org and read a book of your choice. With all due respect, it seems you do not know much about the Shia view and i am not the best person to explain either.
I suggest you to read ‘Man and Universe’ by Shaheed Muttahiri (read from chapter 30 onwards because it focuses on Imamat/Khilafat): Man and Universe
Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?
^ has it ever occured to you to read a NON-PARTISAN book about 12er shiaism ?
murtaza muttahari ( although i respect him a lot and he was shaheed who was killed by the 12er tyrant shah pahlavi) but still he was a 12er aalim
Das reich do u beleive abu bakar and umar were better options for Khilafat compared to Imam Ali a.s ?
irrelevent question
question is not so much WHO was to be the caliph but HOW is the caliph be elected /choosen
^ has it ever occured to you to read a NON-PARTISAN book about 12er shiaism ? murtaza muttahari ( although i respect him a lot and he was shaheed who was killed by the 12er tyrant shah pahlavi) but still he was a 12er aalim
people like you can only see the world through one lense- a self made religious lense that is very old, blurry, and full of cracks. This makes you see Pahalvis and MQMs and Zardaris of this world as "12ers"! very one dimensional way of thinking indeed.
Do you also see Osama Bin Ladens, Al Sauds, Mubaraks, and Saddam Hussains of the world as Hanafi Sunnis and Bushs and Obamas as Christians on a crusade mission?
DD, i will highly recommend you this book too which is called 'SHIA". It explains the Shia point of view in very clear manner and is written by a great philosopher, Allama Mohammad Husayn Tabatabai: http://www.ummah.net/khoei/pdf/shia.pdf
irrelevent question question is not so much WHO was to be the caliph but HOW is the caliph be elected /choosen
well u r a question mark in this forum, so one must know what r ur beleives in order to agree or disagree with you.
Once again, do u think Abu bakar or Umer were better options for khilfat than Imam Ali a.s ? Shld i open a new thread to ask u this question ?