Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Well if teh above Hadith is correct then plz explain to me, we do have Quran now but why we do not have any Ahle-Bait for last 1400 years according to definition of Ahle-Bait that you have put forward.

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42

Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

17:71 the day when We will call every people with their Imam;...

We have Imam Al Mahdi (as) present among us but in occultation and will return to with Hazrat Isa (as) as successors of the Abrahamic faiths.

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "We (I and my family) are members of a household that Allah (SWT) has chosen for them the life of the Hereafter over the life of this world; and the members of my household (Ahlul-Bayt) shall suffer a great affliction and they shall be forcefully expelled from their homes after my death; then there will come people from the East carrying black flags, and they will ask for some good to be given to them, but they shall be refused service; as such, they will wage war and emerge victorious, and will be offered that which they desired in the first place, but they will refuse to accept it till they pass it to a man from my family (Ahlul-Bayt) appears to fill the Earth with justice as it has been filled with corruption. So whoever reaches that (time) ought to come to them even if crawling on the ice/snow since among them is the Vice-regent of Allah (Khalifatullah) al-Mahdi."

Sunni references:

Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4082,
The History Tabari
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, pp 250-251

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Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

Pagluu if i understand the Hadith correctly then it says that Quran and my Ahle-Bait will never be separated, but, Quran is available to evevry muslim for guidance but Ahle-Bait are not. How can one explain this?

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Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

^It is for them and their teachings and sacrifices only that the message of Islam is alive. Quran is between us but we have failed to be guided from it because of how we treated the Ahlul Bayt (as) and have let go of their teachings.

In Sahih al-Bukhari, it is narrated that:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "What would be your situation if the Son of Marry (i.e. Jesus) descends upon you and your Imam is among you?"
Sunni reference:

Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v4, Tradition #658

Timepass April 2013
45

Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

thats a rather philosophical position to take

46

Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

We all should ponder upon it.

47

Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

The Messenger of Allah said:

"Whosoever wishes to live and die like me and enter that heaven (after death), which my lord has promised me, namely, the ever lasting heaven should acknowledge Ali (AS) as his patron after me, and after him he should acknowledge the sons of Ali, *because they are the people who will never leave you outside the door of guidance nor will they let you enter the door of misguidance." *

Sunni references:

Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, p155, Tradition #2578
Also abridged Kanz al-Ummal on the margin of Musnad of Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v5, p32

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Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

Brother Iconoclast, who do you think is Quran talking about in the following verse:

[3:7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

[Shakir 35:32] Then We gave the Book for an inheritance to those whom We chose from among Our servants; but of them is he who makes his soul to suffer a loss, and of them is he who takes a middle course, and of them is he who is foremost in deeds of goodness by Allah's permission; this is the great excellence.

[56:79] None shall touch it save the purified ones.

[4:54] Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim's children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom.

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Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

Pagluu, i don't beleive in everything that has been written in any sunni book. We must first decide if it stands to reason.

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Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

And this set of verses:

[6:84] And We gave to him Ishaq and Yaqoub; each did We guide, and Nuh did We guide before, and of his descendants, Dawood and Sulaiman and Ayub and Yusuf and Haroun; and thus do We reward those who do good (to others).
[6:85] And Zakariya and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas; every one was of the good;
[6:86] And Ismail and Al-Yasha and Yunus and Lut; and every one We made to excel (in) the worlds:
[6:87] And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren, and We chose them and guided them into the right way.
[6:88] This is Allah's guidance, He guides thereby whom He pleases of His servants; and if they had set up others (with Him), certainly what they did would have become ineffectual for them.
[6:89] These are they to whom We gave the book and the wisdom and the prophecy; therefore if these disbelieve in it We have already entrusted with it a people who are not disbelievers in it.
[6:90] These are they whom Allah guided, therefore follow their guidance. Say: I do not ask you for any reward for it; it is nothing but a reminder to the nations.

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Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

Pagluu brother, you are trying to answer a question by going around it. None of the three verses you qouted mean that these people can only be Ahle-Bait and none else. At present teh question is that if Ahle-Bait are an everlasting guidance like Quran, then how can we seek guidance from them now?

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Based on your thoughts, how do you look at the few of the verses i have presented above? I remember you opened a thread here before asking if the religious authority has to be inherited! Is that where you have doubts?

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You are asking me many questions without answering anything that i asked of you. I have presented you verses from the Holy Quran in answer to many of your queries. For example i gave you a verse;

[56:79] None shall touch it save the purified ones.
I assumed that you knew that the only ones thoroughly purified and promised to be kept purified by Allah (swt) are none but the Ahlul Bayt (as).

Its fine if you do not believe in the Sunni books of hadith. But we both believe in the Holy book of Allah and we could try to discuss this from the Holy Quran then, Insha Allah. I am a student and perhaps could learn new things from a good discussion from the Holy Quran.

Secret funds case: List of 282 journalists made public
54

Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

I have to go now brother. Let me give you a link to study a verse i presented you before from the holy Quran: Tafseer Comparison

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Brother 56:79 is usually cited in reference of not touching the Quran without wudhu or when in state of Janabat, it has also been explained as meaning that except those pure in heart can understand Quran. The issue that 33:33 means only Ali's family and offsprings is far from clear. It in itself is a separate topic. I just want you to consider one point, which is, despite all these theoretical discussions of sunnis following Prophet Mohammad pbuh by following his Sunnah and Shias following him through his lineage are semantic.

Both sects in the end rely on reports/traditions that neither Prophet nor Imams have directly scribed.

Gherat ..milli kay nahin?!?!
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Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

True that the reports and traditions ascribed to Prophets and Imams for all the Abrahamic faiths have come from ‘human’ sources BUT as per our beliefs Quran, the book of Allah, is the benchmark that seperates Haq from Batil. For us Shias, a clear benchmark to judge a hadith from our Prophet or an Imam is whether it is in line with the Quran or not. If its not then it goes in the garbage.

[16:89]…and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.

Now either the Quran is CLEAR about everything or it is not. This is upto the level of your belief on the book.

About the verses like 56:79, the purity Quran is talking about is beyond the apparent nijasaat. If you read the verse in Arabic and understand Arabic grammar then you will find that the Quran is saying that a person CAN NOT (under no condition) touch the book. So if we just take the apparent meaning then it means that a Hindu or an Ahtiest can not touch the Quran whereas in reality they can easily do that. We all know Mahatamma Gandhi used to read Quran. Quran is also readily available in the public libraries around the world. Anyway, this is a very long discussion and warrants a lot of time. I would like to share a useful link about the topic of Taweel from Quran for anybody interested in reading more: Tafsir Al-Mizan

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Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

^Brother, all sects among Islam are unanimous in agreement that Hadith contradicting Quran are not valid, despite that they differ on merits of Hadith, bcoz it all boils down to interpretation of verses which each one does differently.

Anyhow, i am a common man and try not to indulge into such things, important thing for common people is to see what is required of us in our day to day life.

Timepass April 2013
58

Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

^Brother, the clear Ahkaam from Allah (swt) and his Prophet that are still present in the Quran but have been tempered with and changed and therefore practiced differently by the Muslims from different sects (Salat, Taymum, Zakat, Hajj,...there is disagreement about everything)

Whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
Qur’an 5:44

Whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.
Qur’an 5:45

Whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.
Qur’an 5:47

Now Allah (swt) only revealed one message and one set of Ahkaam.

Do they not then meditate on the Qur'an? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy (4:82)

Why do we have discrepancies in what we are following then? 4 Sunni Imams lived during the same century and considered each others work 'kufr'! In Prophet's time there were no discrepencies then where did it all start to go wrong? Why do you guys take changed made by Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman to be part of the deen? Who gave them the authority to make these alterations to the deen of Allah?

Trouble is that the social laws of Islam as presented by Allah and his Prophet (Guardian of which was Imam Ali) had its foundations shaken right after the death of the Prophet by these people. Our Prophet and his status was tried to be belittled as much as possible and he was presented as an average, forgetful, sinful man who just happened to be the Prophet (for such traditions see Saha Sitta). They make every possible effort to give an impression that he left the world without nominating a successor or leaving behind a clear mechanism of guidance, which defies logic and goes totally against the principles set forward by the Quran. If you ponder on the manner in which corruption crept into Islamic affairs, and find out how and where it began and where it has reached, then you will see that it began with social laws, then surreptitiously contaminated the rites of worship and ended with the rejection of the spiritual realities and has caused and continues to cause a lot of destruction for us and the whole humanity alike.

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Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

Firtsly the 4 Imams did not deem each others work as Kufr, they had utmost respect for each other. Imam Abu Hanifa was a student of Imam Malik and Imam Shafie also learned from Imam Malik and they praised each other.

Secodnly, if you like a few people insist that putting one's hand a bit up or a little low can engineer a social change or makes a leap in spirtuality then i haven't much to argue.

Thirdly, brother, if you look beyond the sect prejudice, Jafari school of thought has no better social system that makes it any better than systems prevailing around the world right now. Look across teh border to Iran, is it better than rest of the world? Why do you have elections in Iran? Is it a model that the world shud adopt. I feel (thats just my personal opinion which i wont impose on anyone) that it does nto matter what people beleive in when it comes of establishing a just social order.

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Re: Who are the Ahlel Bayt?

My friend you look at it as showing of the hands only but read Quran and ponder on the concequences nations suffered when they went even slightly against the Will of Allah (swt). Story of Taloot, and Haroon (as) are 2 such examples.

The topic was under discussion in the light of fundamentals as presented in the Quran and Hadees. Why you decided to bring in the present day Jafaris and the doings in the present day Iran, i dont know as neither the Jafaris or Iran is set as an example nor ordered to be followed by either Allah or his Prophet.

By the way there is many references available to know what the 4 Imams thought of eachother. You should read Tarikh Baghdad by a 10th century Sunni scholar Al-Khatib al-Baghdadi.