Which Islam is this???

Society Religion & Philosophy
81

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rally: *
Besides yourselfs, who in islam has recognised/accepted you as muslims?
[/QUOTE]

do we need SOME1 to accept us as Muslims and do we need Holy Quran and Hadith to accept us Muslim.
if some1 then yes Mullahs like Muslims dont see us Muslims, but humans like Muslims consider us as Muslims(as i got many sunni muslims friends in pakiland).

and if we see ISLAM, then we are accepted muslims according to the teaching of Islam, Alhamdolillah.

again my question is still here, dont bring a fake rules of a corrupt country(pakiland) but bring me proof from ISLAM!!!!

82

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr OuiJa: *

do we need SOME1 to accept us as Muslims and do we need Holy Quran and Hadith to accept us Muslim.

[/QUOTE]

You just answered the question. Read that sentence again and again and again till you get it into your warped brain what you just wrote.

83

may be I misunderstood something here, but I wrote was ok.

dont worry about my brain, worry about ur brain, which is waiting for Isa to fly down ;) and btw still my QUESTION is here!!!

84

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr OuiJa: *
may be I misunderstood something here, but I wrote was ok.

[/QUOTE]

I dodn't think it looks ok.

85

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rally: *
I dodn't think it looks ok.
[/QUOTE]

then tell me what´s wrong there. and what you want me to read again and again.

86

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr OuiJa: *

the reason you gave was WITHOUT any base and argument, just put a story which could be false and claim that b.s Mullahs and b.s cops do the right thing.
Think about it and asnwer me again!!!

Btw I asked for a vers in Holy Quran and Hadith not like your stories!!!!
[/QUOTE]

can u pllz remind me what i wrote ......i thought i quoted quran...

87

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
can u pllz remind me what i wrote ......i thought i quoted quran...
[/QUOTE]

:) u had only go back one page to see ur statement.
"definately ..........what muslims did to masjid zarrar in hadrat MUHAMMAD salllahoaihaywasalm time is enough evidence for that...."

btw u didnt quote Holy Quran, if so where is the vers and ayat #?

88

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *
These are exactly what human rights are! Say that you are Muslims and not Ahmedis, and you can write kalima where ever you want. The teachings and sayings of the Ahmedia cult and its founders greatly perturb the Muslim majority of Pakistan and Muslims all over the world.

And don't try to act innocent and persecuted! The blasphemy you do is a great offence!
[/QUOTE]

Whoever recites kalimah, is a muslim. No one has right to say that a kalimah reciting person is non-muslim. However, if one insists then he has to catagorically prove it.

What is Kalimah... it is the believe in oneness of God and in the prophethood of Muhammad(PBUH).

Whoever declares his belief in oneness of God and in prophethood of Muhammad(PBUH) is a Muslim. Therefore whoever believe in kalimah is a muslim. There is no other definition of Muslim available in Islamic Literature. And who is non-muslim...?? A non-muslim is only one who Does Not Believe in Kalimah. i.e. a non-muslim is one who declares his non-belief in oneness of God and in the prophethood of Muhammad(BUH).

89

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
Mr. Degas:

You wrote:
Ahmadis don't have any problem whether Mr. Degas considered them Muslims or not! but Ahmadis have a problem when Mr. Degas try to force Ahmadis to act like Non-Muslims.
[/QUOTE]

The point I want to emphasize is Constitution of Pakistan says it doesnt have any problem if Mr. Fateh follows his religion Ahmadism and go to his temple since it has been accepted and declared by subsequest ruling by Law that Ahmadis are not muslims! Further Mr. Degas is not trying to force anyone to act as non-muslims but they themselves are according to Constitution of Pakistan.

90

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *

Whoever recites kalimah, is a muslim. No one has right to say that a kalimah reciting person is non-muslim. However, if one insists then he has to catagorically prove it.

What is Kalimah... it is the believe in oneness of God and in the prophethood of Muhammad(PBUH).

Whoever declares his belief in oneness of God and in prophethood of Muhammad(PBUH) is a Muslim. Therefore whoever believe in kalimah is a muslim. There is no other definition of Muslim available in Islamic Literature. And who is non-muslim...?? A non-muslim is only one who Does Not Believe in Kalimah. i.e. a non-muslim is one who declares his non-belief in oneness of God and in the prophethood of Muhammad(BUH).
[/QUOTE]

Mr.....if some one says that he love pakistan and then keep on spying for israel ......would u believe hie words or action......same is the case here..............mirzai by reciting kalima made a good biryani and then
by claiming mirza as baroozi nabi have poured s@#it in it......who will like to eat such biryani........

do some one understand.........?.......

91

do u understand what you wrote? :hehe:??

but u still not give me vers of Holy Quran and Hadith!!:eek:

92

And you guys criticise Hindus for casteism?

93

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
And you guys criticise Hindus for casteism?
[/QUOTE]

talking to us(Ahmadi Muslims)??

bao bao where r u??

94

Mr. oojay............i gave u answers both logicaly and from quran...............sorry i cant follow the discussion as m busy these days...see u after some days......

well .....tomy..........does that justifies ur acts of castecism..........what we muslims do is not castesicm we r just like thing with like mirzais re more closer to hindus and yahoodees then they r to islam....because they dont belive on one of the very core issue of islam....the finality of our prophet salllah o alihay wasalam...........

95

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
Mr. oojay.....................i gave u answers both logicaly and from quran...............
[/QUOTE]

bao bao where r u running now?? you didnt give me anything from Holy Quran and your stories are that weak which no1 needs.

I am surpriced that NO anti ahmadi couldnt bring a SINGLE vers and Hadith to proof that rude action of stupid Mullahs!! MashAllah.
means this is TOTALY against the teaching of Islam and in favour of Mullahism. Allah o Akbar

96

To Bao and others who only konw how to curse but not to proivde evidences....

Hey terey paas kia galiyon ke siwa
saath mere hey Taieed`e rabbul wara
Kel chali thi jo laikho peh taighe dua
aaj bhi izen hoga tu chal jaye gee

:)... by the way come with some logical argument.

97

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *

Mr.....if some one says that he love pakistan and then keep on spying for israel ......would u believe hie words or action......same is the case here..............mirzai by reciting kalima made a good biryani and then
by claiming mirza as baroozi nabi have poured s@#it in it......who will like to eat such biryani........

do some one understand.........?.......
[/QUOTE]

But if some one says that Allah is one and Muhammad (PBUH) is his prophet then he is definatly a muslim. There is no any condition in the text of Kalimah. Whoever recites this kalimah is a muslim. What else he does is not your matter. You r not to decide the faith of any one. If you try to decide, then u r creating a "fitna". It is only your God who know who is true Muslim. You r definatly not. Also there is no condition of not to accept "baroozi Nabi" in original text of Kalimah. Therefore whoever after reciting the original text of kalimah, also accepts a "baroozi nabi" does not fasify the text of original Kalimah. . But however, if you curropt the meaning of kalimah and insist the absolute finality of prophethood (Which ofcourse is not mentioned in the original kalimah), Then you can conclude about the non-muslimness of that person in the light of curropted meanings of Kalimah.

In the last, I would like to introduce by beliefs:

I am a non-muslim because:

I do not believe in oneness of God. and;

I do not believe in prophethood of Muhammad[PBUH]

Therefore I am a non-muslim. I do not believe in oneness of God because I think that there is no valid and final scientific or logical proof available in this respect. However, I accept the possibility of oneness of God for reason that there also no final scientific or logical proof available for the non-existence or the existence of more than ons gods. Therefore I can assume the "possibility" of "oneness of God", though I do not "believe".

Similarly, I do not "believe" in the prophethoot of Muhammad (PBUH). I however can assume the possibility of him being the prophet. I respect Muhammad (PBUH) and all other persons considered to be prophets but I do not believe in any one for the reasons That I do not know them personally. I just have listened about them. I have not seen them. May be it all be the stories only. I cannot say with certainty. I have no direct knowledge about them. How can I "believe" in them?

It is possible that this world is created by God. It is also possible that the world and the universe autometically existed. I do not know about it.

Keeping in view my personal thinkings, every one can decide that I am a non-muslim. Now try to compare me with Ahmedies who believe that;

Allah is one and Muhammad (PBUH) is his prophet.

What you decide about ahmedies now..????

98

So what about muslims who dont believe in this "baroozi Nabi" ? and his claims? Do u consider them any way less if they dont believe in Mirza as prophet of God?

99

If they call themselves muslims, who are we to deny that. Their case rests with Allah. We’ll have no hesitations about their being muslims.

However, if a Messiah is to come, then ofcourse there is a need to accept him. Otherwise, why would Allah send someone upon which he puts no conditions of accepting him. If he is from Allah, acceptance in him comes as mendatory.

Now if Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad:as: is from Allah and a true prophet of Allah, acceptence in him comes as mendatory. If someone doesn’t accept him, he becomes a ‘kaafir’ of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad :as:.

Now, don’t confuse word ‘kaafir’ here. He still remains a muslims because he believes Allah and Huzur:saw:. Yet he doesn’t believe in Imam of the age, that makes him ‘kaafir’ of that Imam.

The problem is, muslims call ahmadis ‘kaafir’ of Huzur:saw:, which is absurd . Because we believe with full zest that Allah is ONE and Huzur:saw: is prophet of Allah. Yet we also believe that Promised Imam as prophecied by Huzur:saw: has come. So we believe that his Prophecy is fulfilled. HOW DOES THAT MAKES US KAAFIR?

100

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *

But if some one says that Allah is one and Muhammad (PBUH) is his prophet then he is definatly a muslim.

[/QUOTE]

So if followers of Musalma Kazab or Mirza belive in above 2 conditions they are muslims? It means all those people who believe in prophets after Muhammad (PBUH) and belive in Allah can be muslims? So no need to believe in Quran as final word of God is a condition of being a muslim.. as these later prophets are getting revelation too..