Which Islam is this???

Re: Re: Re: Re: Which Islam is this???

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadya: *

brother if I would see a Mirzai in trouble, dying of hunger, or being ill, I would still help him/her too, out of humanity, as long as that person wouldn't harm anyone else. A human is a human.
[/QUOTE]

ohh I am surpriced about your thoughts, I appriciate them really, at least u consider us human, cuz Mullah cosider us worst of everything, kill Ahmadi than help ahmadis :).
But as rvikz wrote, problems are still here, DOESNT matter if the budda statue is destryoed or not, BUT who are we to destroy HOLY things of others?? does Islam allow such actions?

bao bihari tum aye bhi aur jawab nahin diya hmmmm.
answer my question too man!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Which Islam is this???

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr OuiJa: *

ohh I am surpriced about your thoughts,
[/QUOTE]

And why is that?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Which Islam is this???

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rally: *

And why is that?
[/QUOTE]

didnt u read my whole post :), I explained it already.

amazing none of u can provide me any vers in Holy Quran and Hadith which SUPPORT the rude action in my first post?? :konfused:

This is exactly why India is so far ahead of us, infact this is why all non Muslim secualr states are way ahead of us... Because Islam is used as a way to discriminate. If there is a god out there, then the way Pakistan is today is a puniskment for defacing Islam as such.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Which Islam is this???

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr OuiJa: *

bao bihari tum aye bhi aur jawab nahin diya hmmmm.
answer my question too man!!
[/QUOTE]

i think u missed the masjid zarrar part...otherwise u wouldnot have posted such comments...............
yaar ....what is this big....???.........i could not understand........................?

Re: Re: Which Islam is this???

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
definately ..........what muslims did to masjid zarrar in hadrat MUHAMMAD salllahoaihaywasalm time is enough evidence for that..............all muslims hate mirza kazzab................
[/QUOTE]

Sorry I missed this part, but I dont know about this evidence, plz tell me about this more, seems to be intresting.
Did Sahaba(ra) erase own Kalima from the mosque??

Re: Re: Re: Which Islam is this???

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr OuiJa: *

Sorry I missed this part, but I dont know about this evidence, plz tell me about this more, seems to be intresting.
Did Sahaba(ra) erase own Kalima from the mosque??
[/QUOTE]

no no......they distroyed the whole so called mosque.....................................so that just justifies the act.....isnt it......mr ouija.....?..............use ur grey cells.........

( any way may be i think that i am giving some tough time to the moderators.......they sem to be intersted in editing nearly all my post...........chalo paisay halal ho raahy hain.....gupshup waloon kay.........that was just a joke though ......)

Mr. Bao Bihari:

I don't know whether you are giving any tough times to moderators or not! but you are realy giving me a tough time by writing your posts in 'Roman Urdu'. It is realy difficult to understand them especially when they are void of any argument and full of 'dots' and 'question marks' and 'white spaces'.

This is how Pakistan will develop by destroying it's citizens' homes? I can already see how Islam has been beautified and purified by this noble and pious act of that Molvi. The police officer is going to get 72 virgin rabbits in Janat-ul-Firdus now.

hafeez123 Janab if not her papas property its my papas and its my property, u can also consider it urs awell, as being a part of Islamic ummah

My ummah will b the far better ummah from the ummah of other prophets because they will do ritious things not do bad things and tell others to do the same( Holy Prophet PBUH)

As far as it it conccerned by our Ahmadi guppies beingg call muslims.

Its same as entering some conuntry u need a visa if u dont have the pssport and 4 being called muslims u need to believe in the Finality of Holy Prophet PBUUH as being the last prophet of Allah Almighty

wah ji wah ahmadarsalan u compared Islam with a country, kiya kehne apke :eek:.
when we compare the obejection and life of Hz Masih Maood :as: with AnHz Mohammad :saw: then you guyz are angry, but when you compare Islam with a country, then it´s ok for you.

rules of country can get curropt(like pakiland) but rules of Islam cant get corrupt, ppl of a country can get corrupt(pakiland) but the Holy Men in Islam werent arent and wont get curropt(beside all Mullahs).

but hey bao bihari couldnt asnwer me CORRECT and no1 of u guyz(anti ahmadis) even dare to asnwer the question?? isnt there any answer of this?? the Mullahs and Police did a rude job in the name of Mullahism(of course they did)?

So plz, tell me about it.!!

As far as Constitution of Paksitan is concerned Ahmadis are non-muslims.. but laws like Kalima or say Salaam are stupid to me.. but still they are law.. a person should follow law of land even though one doesnt believe in them.. Ahmadis should obey teh law of land they live in.. they can object to laws in some proper channel but just going against them constitute to their disobeying..

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
As far as Constitution of Paksitan is concerned Ahmadis are non-muslims.. but laws like Kalima or say Salaam are stupid to me.. but still they are law.. a person should follow law of land even though one doesnt believe in them.. Ahmadis should obey teh law of land they live in.. they can object to laws in some proper channel but just going against them constitute to their disobeying..
[/QUOTE]

I agree that a person should follow laws of land. But it's inhuman to make laws which caters to one single group of peoples out of the whole group. If a law is there, it should be for all people, not just one segment of the group.

If saying salam, and reciting kalima etc is ban, then it should be ban for all, not just one segment.

And if you say that reciting kalima/saying salam etc are "property" of "muslims"(according to pakistani Govt.) only, then let me tell you that I know for a fact that if a hindu/christian/jews in Pakistan recite kalima or say salam, they won't be put to jails. It's just ahmadis unfortunately, because the law specifically states that only ahmadis are prohibited to do namaz/roza/haj/kalima/salam etc etc.

How unfortunate is our country!!!

There is very little evidence to show that the Pakistan's public in general have any deeply rooted hatred towards Ahmadis. In the riots of 1953 most general public helped Ahmadis escape persecution & rioting. Even though they will never publicly acknowledge it, they do not approve of the Mullahs who incite hatred. In riots of 1973, my family was the only Ahmadis household in the village. They were offered food & water from one of the old neighbors, who was herself a devout Sunni Muslim. She went out of her way, actually in harms way, to provide our family water and other basic necessities of life which were boycotted as per the call of the Maulvi Sahib of our village.

So, one might ask then why there is such a perceived popular support for persecution of Ahmadis in Pakistan?
(1) It is the "Mob mentality" & playing "religion card" of the religious extreme who comprise of Mullahs & public officials. Pakistanis in general do not oppose anything that is initiated in the name of religion. All political parties, weather religious or non-religious, dictators or popular leaders have always exploited religion.

(2) There is no media frenzy about the persecution of Ahmadis. They are treated like the untouchables of India. So the general public doesn't even know what the Mullahs or the government under their pressure is doing. The news are soo biased that it seems they don't want to go even an inch beyond the status quo set by the religious leaders about Ahmadis in fear of damage to their own property.
For example, when the Mullahs mobbed the Ahmadiyya Mosque under construction in Rawalpindi, I was present at the scene. My father was part of the committee that went to the city council and got the whole plan for the mosque approved. It was suppose to be built on the site of an old mosque which was not big enough anymore. The police intervened only after the mob had demolished one side of the under construction mosque.

The matter went to court, but there was no mention of it in Newspapers, one can forget the television. Within a few weeks district court came up with the decision, where the court sided with the Mullahs who argues such a mosque will "offend the general Muslim public of the neighborhood" even though an old mosque in the same place still exists & had been for years! Systematically, the decision was delivered on the afternoon of Thursday, right before the end of the regular work hours, so no appeal can be made. The next morning, on the Holy day of Friday,** government bulldozers**, under the supervision of the Police of Pakistan, came and demolished the rest of the mosque as well. None of the senior district or even city official were present, other than the regular police officers. Though a lot of Mullahs along with their local supporters changed slogans of "Allah-o-Akbar" at the distruction of the mosque. Saturday Newspapers reported on the inner sides in a small little column, within 10 lines it stated something to the effect 'Ahmadiyya religious place (Because calling it a mosque is illegal according to the amendments of constitution of Pakistan) was demolished by government officials after complaints from local residents of disturbance & security risks'.

So while Pakistanis shout at the top of their lungs pointing fingers at India & how their government (which BTW at least condemned the act even for lip service) let the Hindu hard liners demolished the Babri Masjid, they never look at the behavior of their own government or their "leaders" or criticize them for all the government aided persecutions that they commit every day.

One wonders how the noble soul of Jinnah will be feeling at this day on the celebration of the Independence of Pakistan, for which he said: "You are free, free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed -- that has nothing to do with the business of the state."

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
As far as Constitution of Paksitan is concerned Ahmadis are non-muslims.. but laws like Kalima or say Salaam are stupid to me.. but still they are law.. a person should follow law of land even though one doesnt believe in them.. Ahmadis should obey teh law of land they live in.. they can object to laws in some proper channel but just going against them constitute to their disobeying..
[/QUOTE]

There are no proper channels for objection...
This is Pakistan not UK.

Haha Degas, obeying the laws of the land? Obeying the laws of the land made neighbors turn in their neighbors, and it ended up cooking of 6 million innocent people in gas chambers. The Law of Germany in years 1934-1941 was all Germans to report and to turn their Jewish neighbors in. Luckily, Pakistanis are a lot more independent minded than bland and order-obeying Germans, so it will never happen on that magnitude in Pakistan. But even the thought of someone arguing to "obey" the law is kinda scary. Molvis can shove the Pakistani constitution up their ass.

Ahmadjee Bhaijan, I had to run for 8 miles (not bad for a 9 year old) from my boarding school to reach a nearest relative's house (in my boxers), and then take an overnight bus to reach Lahore.

Pakistani complain of being mistreated in America, being deported for the smallest of infractions, ironic how they fail to realize the same type of abuses being commited by their own govt.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *

I agree that a person should follow laws of land. But it's inhuman to make laws which caters to one single group of peoples out of the whole group. If a law is there, it should be for all people, not just one segment of the group.

[/QUOTE]

There are so many laws that seem to be cruel or harmful to segments in society but they are there.. Constitution is not devine - its made to cater sentiments of majority of society and cant cover every ones wishes or whims.. have-nots are still being oppressed by powerfuls after so mnay years.. police opresses all that are weak..

I know many ahmadis friends who are working and living peacefully in Pakistan.. they may not be happy but still they dont breal laws just to prove they r brave.. whats the big deal in writing kalima on walls of houses.. is this mandatory for muslims.. how many muslism that do in Pakistan? You can disagree but there is a section in every community which tries to create trouble and if u say Ahmadis dont have their share then there is no argumant.. those extremists who kill or torture anyone for name of religion are animals - they be from any section of society.

Degas Bhaijaan, have you ever read the constitution of Pakistan? If you haven't let me show you a quote:

Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities** freely to profess and practise their religions and develop their cultures**;

Wherein the territories now included in or in accession with Pakistan and such other territories as may hereafter be included in or accede to Pakistan shall form a Federation wherein the units will be autonomous with such boundaries and limitations on their powers and authority as may be prescribed;

Therein shall be guaranteed fundamental rights, including equality of status, of opportunity and before law, social, economic and political justice, and freedom of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship and association, subject to law and public morality;

BTW, the word 'freely' was omitted by your favorite Gen. Zia!