Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
^^ I guess that is what I said...lol
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
Most people fear that what will happen if mush leaves, BB and NS will be back in power and looting of country will start!
My Point is ( which is based on observation) if this Dictators have let the democratic culture evolved in Pakistan we might not be seeing this many corrupt leaders...
Those who are standing for Mush, have forgotten that they are only worshopping his personality coz his team-mates are the same who were with NS and BB, rather they have joined forces, in the era of NS and BB, looters of one party use to loot country now they are doing it side-by-side.
Let go back to the point where i said the let democratice culture be evolved... look in the 11 years of democracy of Pakistan... in the 2nd term of PPP the Idol of Bhutto was broken, people of Pakistan and voter of PPP never voted for PPP ( reason for NS getting mass majority in assembly), voters of Karachi rejected MQM ( based on their performance) and if NS would have allowed his term ( failure or successfull in delivering the promised) voters might have judged him in next elections..
The awarness is there, but who respects that, why a single military person takesover and decide who will stay and who will leave despite the fact how corrupt the person is.
People praise MUSH cause they have not seen a leader. NS and BB were the subjects, BB was rejected by the voters of PPP, NS was on this way to be rejected, there was room for new leadership to groom, a leadership which suppose to be less corrupt then BB and NS as they knew that they will thrown out if didn't perform...
For hijacking the Govt. selected by the People of Pakistan, by de-grading them as poor selecters, for giving life to rejected politicians ( MQM, ANP and BB) mush should be hanged till death. cause these are the crimes which our next generations have to pay the price for.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
My guess is that he will run to the USA....like ex-army an naval officers, in the past - all of whom bought themselves mansions and lived a life of luxury once they ran away from Pakistan.
Someone told me that Musharaff apparently has a green card already and that his son is already based in the USA....so all the doors are open for the dictator.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
^^ History contradicts that, which ever dictator was fed by USA when thrown, never got assylum in USA, he may go there without his capacity as Ex- Cheif of Army and President of Pakistan, means a life of a dead man
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
True - he has a green card though, from all accounts, so he can legally get into the country...and live there as well. If he would apply for political asylum, the USA probably wouldnt grant it - but with a green card already, he doesent really need asylum does he?
Shaukat Aziz is also apparently a USA green card holder...lol - all the crooks have their exit strategies already in place !
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
I think only patriotic guy was Zia- so sad we lost him so early. Had he been alive we would not have seen Punjabis and Pashtuns getting raw deal in Karachi.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
True - he has a green card though, from all accounts, so he can legally get into the country...and live there as well. If he would apply for political asylum, the USA probably wouldnt grant it - but with a green card already, he doesent really need asylum does he?
I dont think Mushrraf has green card, but I know his bro who is a doc & lives in Chicago and his son lives in Boston and they might help him out. I dont think US govt will get involve in this.
BTW, remember Shah of Iran? He wasnt given asylum by the US and died in Egypt. Mushrraf, once ousted from the power, he will have to find a place to live, and I doubt if its going to be in Pakistan or the US. Maybe India.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
^^ Turkey might be a good place for him, as he can visit the shrine of his hero more often
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
http://dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm
THE army is worried that it is being maligned in the current agitation. It should be worried. Slogans raised against it have never been heard in Punjab, the army’s heartland, before. Gen Musharraf addressed the officers of the Jhelum garrison on Wednesday. From the newspaper pictures available, the assembled officers, especially the senior-most in the front row, looked pretty glum. What was on their minds?
But who is bringing the army into disrepute? Lawyers, columnists, street riff-raff or the army itself? When the army involves itself in politics, when its chief wants to stick to power regardless of the consequences, when he patronises an organisation such as the MQM, the army, willy-nilly, comes into the firing line of public opinion.
Lawyers are not bringing a bad name to the army. The army high command is. What does the nation want? What is the cry coming from the depths of its soul? The supremacy of the law and the Constitution. The army will earn respect to the extent it remains faithful to its charter of defending the nation’s frontiers. It will lose it when it loses its way.
For 60 years the nation has fed and sustained the army not to fight New Zealand, Uzbekistan or the Republic of South Africa but to stand up to Indian hegemony. This army-led government has grovelled before India. What is then left of its raison d’etre?
But the central issue in this agitation is somewhat different: nothing less than the country’s future. As Fakhruddin G. Ebrahim has pithily put it before the Supreme Court, “Time has come to say goodbye to the gun, and if not, then say goodbye to the Constitution.” The gun or the Constitution, once and for all let this be decided. What is Pakistan to be –– a banana republic or a self-respecting democracy? Who is to exercise sovereignty in it –– Parliament or Triple One Brigade?
Two dates will stand out in our history: March 9 when Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry stood up to military diktat, thereby setting in motion the chain of events which constitute the present movement; May 12 when the emperor appeared without his clothes, the spiritual kinship between him and the MQM revealed to the naked eye.
But even dark clouds have silver linings and the silver lining in the present situation is that Karachi’s dominant party took a step too far on May 12, over-reaching itself and thus inviting a bitter backlash and now retribution.
On the morning of May 12 I was at the Tibet Centre where the MQM was holding its so-called rally, standing next to Nasreen Jalil, Karachi’s deputy mayor, and Babar Khan Ghouri, MQM federal minister. Having witnessed how the MQM had barricaded the entire city—no one needing binoculars to see what was going on—I told them that they were not realising the consequences of what they were was up to (and this was before word had come that people were being killed). Nasreen represents the more moderate, presentable face of the MQM. I told her that when evening came, as it surely would, the responsibility of the day’s events would rest on the MQM’s shoulders.
Know what Ghouri said? That Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry had not come to the Quaid’s mazar to offer fateha before, implying that his wanting to come on may 12 was a sign of impending mischief. As if a visa from the MQM was required to enter the city and visit the Quaid’s mazar.
Gen Musharraf has plugged the same line: as Karachi’s dominant party, how could the MQM allow the Chief Justice and his supporters to take out a procession in Karachi because that would have given a wrong impression of the MQM’s popularity? Amazing, and then the army is worried that its image is being maligned.
During the last seven and a half years, now close to eight, only on two occasions has the nation come alive. At the time of the massive earthquake which struck Azad Kashmir and northern Hazara Division in October 2005 when people from across Pakistan held out a hand of assistance to their brothers and sisters in distress. And now during this movement which again proves that this nation is alive.
This movement is like no other in our history. The anti-Ayub agitation of 1968-69 and the anti-Bhutto agitation of 1977 were both vague about their aims and thus easily hijacked by military adventurism. This movement has clear aims: constitutional supremacy and an end to military hegemony.
The political landscape already stands altered, the judiciary more emboldened and the regime put on the defensive. But one ingredient is still missing: a clear, unambiguous stand on the part of the opposition parties. The people of Pakistan know what they want. Lawyers know what they want. But the political parties are either playing games with themselves or living in a world of their own.
At what stage are the Swiss corruption cases against Benazir Bhutto and her husband? I for one don’t know. But because of them or some other reason she is dallying with Musharraf. At least that is the impression her statements and interviews give. Maybe she is just trying to extract concessions and won’t do a deal. But her ambiguity is confusing her supporters who are left in two minds about what to do.
She says her party will not vote for Musharraf. This is not good enough. If Musharraf insists on the charade of getting ‘elected’ by these assemblies, will the PPP legislators resign? We are hearing nothing clear-cut on this score.
Also a picture of confusion is the MMA. Qazi Hussain Ahmed professes a hard line but the Jamaat-i-Islami has yet to throw itself fully into this movement. As for Maulana Fazlur Rahman, he remains the undisputed champion of double-talk, saying one thing, doing another, his ambivalence fuelling suspicion that he remains a secret weapon of Gen Musharraf’s. He too is yet to say that the MMA will resign from the assemblies in case Musharraf seeks a rubber stamp from them.
Insofar as this is a time of standing up and being counted, ambiguity is akin to sabotage and betrayal. When events move fast, they wait for no one and spare no one. Look at Musharraf whose many slips during this season of discontent have branded him an MQM supporter. He can wash himself in holy water but this label won’t easily wash. As the charge of betrayal wouldn’t easily wash in the case of Benazir Bhutto and Maulana Fazlur Rahman if they waste any more time clarifying their real position.
Nawaz Sharif says, nothing doing with Musharraf. But what good is this clarity if he remains holed up in London, playing Khomeini-in-waiting on some of the plushest sofas money can buy? Why isn’t he coming back? Is a forced return to Saudi Arabia the spectre haunting him? Whatever the case, his absence from the scene prevents the PML-N from being fully galvanised. The iron is hot but will bend only before those who strike it.
Imran’s is a lone voice in the wilderness, still a shepherd without much of a flock. But he should be grateful to the MQM for giving him the kind of publicity that money can’t buy. The ban on his entering Sindh has done him good as has the MQM’s poster and placard campaign (since hastily called off) calling him names and lambasting him for ‘promiscuity’. Since when did a charge of promiscuity hurt a man? Whom the gods would destroy they first make ridiculous. The MQM has been painting itself in the colours of ridicule.
Anyway, the political parties are lagging behind the rest of the nation. The leading light of this struggle is My Lord the Chief Justice, no doubt about it. With him stand, in the van of this movement, the nation’s lawyers, united and determined like never before, sustaining the struggle for democracy and lifting the nation’s spirits. In the process a new iconography is being born –– the nation’s new heroes the likes of Ali Ahmed Kurd (more power to his fiery oratory), Munir A. Malik, Aitzaz Ahsan et al, and justices of the different high courts who have lit the way for the rest of the judiciary to follow.
The media has produced its own heroes –– reporters and anchorpersons, who have brought not only the drama and excitement of this struggle into living rooms across the country, but also its meaning and significance. This is the first tele-movement in the country’s history, its impact such that entertainment programmes have had to yield place to judicial and political news. When the CJ goes to address a bar association, the nation, glued to its TV sets, travels with him.
But the political parties, victims of confusion or expediency, lag behind. They still have a role to play but only if they can bring themselves to adopting a clear, unambiguous stand regarding Musharraf’s ‘reelection’. And to be of any use, they must do this now, in the next 20-30 days, rather than wait for Sep/Oct when it might already be too late.
Are the assorted maulanas whom it has been our misfortune to endure, and those who lay claim to the mantle of the East, capable of this? We shall see.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
[QUOTE]
But the political parties, victims of confusion or expediency, lag behind. They still have a role to play but only if they can bring themselves to adopting a clear, unambiguous stand regarding Musharraf’s ‘reelection’. And to be of any use, they must do this now, in the next 20-30 days, rather than wait for Sep/Oct when it might already be too late.
[/QUOTE]
I guess political parties knew the fact that, this movement may remove Mush, but at same time, with the supremacy of Constitution, they may be rubbed from the picture as well, because niether of those are clean, though they insist on implementation of spremacy of constitution bu can't afford the same, so they have to go against this movement ( like MQM did) and if not against atleast not to promote it
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
I very much doubt he'd go anywhere. He still has the support of the army; so he will be able to sit there happily in Pakistan. He'll have some bodyguards to protect him from extremists; before he leaves power he'll have a law arranging immunity for him and his government members for acts in power; and the Army will lay veiled threats against any future elected government that tries to prosecutee Musharraf.
The Army will most probably never permit a prosecution of Musharraf; since that would weaken the Army's latent political power.
Furthermore, a prosecution of Musharraf after leaving office would set a bad precedent, since the lesson it would teach to any future military dictator is that leaving power will result in jail, therefore once you takeover you must be dictator for life.
Good analysis Maddy.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
Big deal, so they won't let them be persecuted but will blow them up in planes and let them sink. Fine, either way the nation gets rid of these power hungry dictators. The nation win in the end and that is what matters.
But though rid we must of all power hungry dictators, fauji or non fauji, the nation has worryingly never won in the end...only another set of dictators win...unfortunately I don't see an end to the out of the frying pan into the fire ritual being repeated over and over...
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
With all the latest and greatest happening in Pakistan and if Musharaf's days are numbered AND if he survives any attack (attack such as Zia-ul-Haq being blown up by USA) or any other similar attack be it foreign or local. I wonder where or which country will Musharaf go for hiding?
Would it be UK if so than as the old saying....khoob guzray gi jub mil bethayNgay dewanay do...(Altaf + Musharaf).
Would it be USA? Bush helping Musharaf?
I am not sure if he will be able to escape to any other country or if any other country will be willing to give him asylum.
What are your views on this?
And on a 2nd thought this all may not happen and Musharf may survive and continue to be Pakistan president. But thats hard to predict....
Waise I must point out, keeping in view the intensity of problems and opposition faced by Musharraf in comparison to Zia, Yahya and Ayub, I feel the Ayub Level was crossed a long time ago and had he been like Ayub, he would have given up ages ago to retire making Ahsan Saleem Hayat incharge. The Yahya level too was not as intense and Yahya's personal indulgences also played a role in his chosing to opt for an exit in the end. With Zia, I don't think the opposition or troubles in 1988 were anywhere comparable to the troubles Ayub had in 1969, Yahya in 1972. Zia's exit was a surprise.
So either Musharraf has already survived turbulence many time more than all these 3 above combined and is therefore prepared for more and may emerge a survivor. Or, of course, there could be another sad or abrupt ending. Surprisingly and unfortunately though, either way, Pakistan wont feel much in the long run, atleast not as much as powerful Pakistani figures.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
As someone has mentioned here already, the USA has never allowed a US-backed former dictator to settle in the USA.
Why do you think they would start with Musharraf?
No, Musharraf will live out the rest of his life as a free man in Islamabad. He'll live off a cosy general's pension and make a bit of money giving speeches in pakistan and around the world on the side.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
As someone has mentioned here already, the USA has never allowed a US-backed former dictator to settle in the USA.
Why do you think they would start with Musharraf?
No, Musharraf will live out the rest of his life as a free man in Islamabad. He'll live off a cosy general's pension and make a bit of money giving speeches in pakistan and around the world on the side.
time will tell! :)
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
Maddy, he will need a bunker in Isl for that. Millions are after him, specially Talibans. He will not die a natural death with my estimation.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
Theres no way he will live in Islamabad..this guy is a walking target. They will lynch him if they get their hands on him. The USA is a pretty visible option for him because his son is already settled there, and I can say with 70% certainty that Musharaff himself has a green card. I have heard this from several sources - if he doesent go to the US then he will probably go join the terrorist Altaf in London. London it seems is a sanctuary for losers - Altaf Hussein, Imran Farooq...etc - whos to say Musharaff wont join them.
That offcourse is all depending on how he goes down..who knows..he may meet Zia's fate.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
Technically how can he have a green card...?
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
Musharraf has done a lot for Pakistan. He is still a great leader of Pakistan, with so many enemies of Pakistan, he is the only one who makes sense and helping us move forward. The previous traitors would have sold the country for cents, but it is only this man who is risking his life everyday for his nation. Just as he has done as a soldier. Rarely we see a man with vision and guts to handle a country that is broken, nation that is immature and the opposition that has no regrad for law and order.
It is not for us to decide who lives or dies. Allah knows better, he has lived so far and he will according to Allah's will not because of USA, oppostion, Taliban or any other human being.
Re: Where will Musharaf go for hiding
Technically how can he have a green card...?
According to the constitution apparently he cannot have one. But since when does the constitution matter to Musharaff?! There have been rumors about him having residency / green card for a very long time..
Same goes for Shaukat Aziz. With him though, theres less doubt. I can confirm for a fact that he has a green card. My uncle is good friends with him - unfortunately !
One of the cases that was about to come in front of the CJ by the way, was whether anyone can hold the office of President/PM while holding dual nationality - this case has already been filed in the Supreme Court. Aitezaz Ahsan has already said that this is one of the reasons Musharaff filed the reference as he was unsure what the CJ would do in this case as well.