Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
who represnts pakistani people its govermant or its extremst forces?
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
^ WRONG, The difference is that all other ideoligies can be changed and the mandates from those ideologies can be changed. I can go into a democratic movement and change the way that democracy is going to be implemented. This is the beauty of man made governance paradigms, they change with times for the better.
Now to dogma, can you change the supposed word of God? If I was in control, I would take out any reference to killing in the name of GOD, whether perceived self defence or slay the idolators where you see them. etc etc etc... take it out for good...unless God can spell out clearly if flying planes into buildings is wrong, if beheading jouranalists is wrong and shooting women in the head in soccer stadiums is wrong, living as a minority peacefully from Philippines to the US is the rightway to go, not everyone deserves a homeland because you are different religion from the majority and if ALL muslims agree to that interpretation..then there wouldn't be a war on terror, patriot laws and other defensive (see how easy it is to say defensive) mechanisms to limit the destruction to the world caused by dogmatic and unchaneable thinking such as that which emanates from religous thought.
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
PD, how is it wrong? I did not say that secular values cannot be changed...however, how much have they changed in last 100 years. The rich nations keep milking the poorer nations (be it high interest loans, cheap labor, child labor), putting puppet leaders (usually they come back to bite us), spreading sectarian violence (nice job for some undercover agents), death and destruction in the name of democracy. So tell me what will you do to change this trend. GW is in office for another 3 years and whoever replaces him is unlikely to reverse this trend.
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
WRONG.
You can enter a democratic movement, and change the way that particular group is going to implement democracy. But as a member of one democractic group, you can’t change the way other groups implement democracy.
Same with religions. You can change the way a group that you’re a member of interprets God’s word. You can’t change the way other, unrelated do it.
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
After what happened to Gandhi at the hands of a Hindu terrorist, I think it is Hinduism that needs another person like him. When you have found him or her, and the person stays alive from murdering Hindu fanatics who probably want to do ( to this new "Gandhi") what they did to Muslims in Gujrat, then come to us and start lecturing us.
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
Wrong. You are finding religious justification for human nature. A religion (especially the perfect one!) should rise about human nature instead of catering to its lowest common demoninator.
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
question is muslim countries have leaders and army they dont matter?
all the extremist forces outside these going to reresent the muslims?
who will nogtiate with them?
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
There was Gandhi of Islam, and he was a Pashtun, the same majority amongst Taliban.
Opinion: A wall of protection
by Rajmohan Gandhi
On visits to Muslim-majority nations and in interactions with Muslim citizens elsewhere, I am often surprised at a lack of knowledge about real Muslim heroes.
One such was Abdul Ghaffar Khan of Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province (NWFP), better known as Badshah or Bacha Khan, who died in 1988 in Peshawar, at the age of 98. This Pashtun opponent of British imperialism and Pakistani authoritarianism spent a total of 27 years in prison, 12 during British rule and 15 after independence.
One of his greatest achievements was to create the Khudai Khidmatgars, or the Serving Volunteers of God, a nonviolent army that for 50 years delivered the message of autonomy, unity, equality and self-reliance to the Pashtuns and non-Pashtuns of the NWFP.
A devout Sunni Muslim who also cherished the pre-Islamic past of his land and proudly took guests to the Bamiyan Buddhas, Badshah Khan sent a son and, more significantly, a daughter to study in the West in 1931. Also, he was a close friend and political associate of my grandfather, Mahatma Gandhi. Thrice in the late 1930s he hosted Gandhi in the NWFP, and it is a remark that Gandhi made there in October 1938 that I would like to present in regard to Palestine/Israel today.
Referring, in the town of Tank, to Hindu and Sikh minorities living amidst Muslim majorities in the NWFP, Gandhi asked the Pashtun Muslims to "become a living wall of protection to their [non-Muslim] neighbors." Added Gandhi: "A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history." (Speech of 31 October 1938 reported in Harijan, 19 November 1938)
A wall of protection was what Badshah Khan also desired for minorities, and what he and Gandhi again and again asked India's majority Hindus to offer to their Muslim neighbors.
The walls that today disfigure the Holy Land, encircling and confining Arabs in their own lands and dividing them from one another, reminded me of the different wall that Gandhi and Ghaffar Khan, whose wife Nambata lies buried in Jerusalem, sought to build.
Let me attempt to describe this different wall that Arabs and Muslims generally may seek to build today around the state and population of Israel.
Firstly, as distinct from the concrete walls that confine many Arabs today, this Muslim wall will be a human wall, consisting of numerous individuals believing in it.
Secondly, it will be a long, crescent-shaped wall, running from Turkey to Morocco, and taking in all the Muslim nations of the Middle East and North Africa.
Thirdly, it will be a confident wall, for the Muslims constituting it will be confident about the justice of the Palestinian demand for a fully independent Palestine with just boundaries with a sovereignty as complete as that of any other state in the region.
Fourthly, it will be a resolute wall, for the Muslims forming it will never yield their determination to secure a fully independent Palestine with just boundaries, or their determination to ensure a nuclear-free Middle East, where neither Israel nor Iran nor any other nation keeps or acquires any nuclear weaponry.
Fifthly, it will be a nonviolent wall, for those forming it will not bear any lethal arms, nor harbor any intent to kill Jews or Israelis.
Finally, it will be a wall of protection, and Muslims forming it will pledge themselves to protect every innocent Jew or Israeli, drawing inspiration from past periods when Muslim rulers and citizens protected Jews, according them rights not then available to Jews in Christian lands.
Many Arabs and other Muslims individually share these characteristics and thus already constitute a slender, fragile and invisible fence of protection. The question is whether it can become a thick, strong and visible wall.
There are at least three reasons why the concept of such a wall should not be rejected out of hand. One, since world intervention in respect of Palestine/Israel is not working, solutions will need to grow from the region. Two, since the world is not free from anti-Semitism, Muslims may wish to take the lead in ending it. Three, the concept will remind Muslims of the confidence and tolerance existing in their past.
As Gandhi said, "A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history." The mission today is peace and justice in Palestine/Israel.
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
I disagree. A perfect religion that also serves as a national political ideology would create a fundamentally weakened state if it tried to follow this philosophy of yours.
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
Point is that democracy doesn’t talk about killing in no way shape or form. Islam does. No democratic theory I have ever read, suggests killing is ok when specified. Muslim God condones that. Which needs to be corrected. I am offering changing the quran so that every muslim can be on the same page.
You don’t need to change the way other groups implement democracy and no where in the democratic literature does it say that it is ok to kill others because you want a homeland, you want the women to wear burlap or that those who shun your values should be killed as mandated.
It is a battle of individualism vs. sheepism. democracy already won out over Comunism, Fascism..it will also beat religious thuggery and islamism. And it won’t be the west who is going to do the bulk of the chappal maaring…in the next 10 yrs, as China needs the raw materials and energy to enable the growth for its kaffir people, it will make the patriot law look like the Bill of rights.
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
Yeah wake me up when this perfect religion comes to pass. Islam ain’t it.
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
Pinstripe Danda No democratic theory I have ever read, suggests killing is ok when specified.
so you haven't read the european project of constitution that french and dutch rejected few weeks ago, because it was stated that killing from the police/army would be prefectly legal in case of demonstration and security needs....and you are not aware of very democraticly induced state of emergency which enable any democratic state to start killing people as soon as they seem not to behave like sheep citizens, not to mention death penalty...or US ain't a democracy init?
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
^ democratic principles in those countries allowed for a "non" vote to make the issue moot. See how wonderful democracy is. Now if it was god saying killing is ok...could you say no, as a muslim? Cn you go against God's word, no matter how WRONG it is.
Deliberation, compromise and progresson are hallmarks of democratic movements. Is it assumed that democracy is not prefect, like man. It changes and evolves to the topical sensibilities of the times. that is why it is the perfect governance model for man. Can god's word change. Simple question...if it can then he is wrong. Is god wrong?
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
no God words are not changing but human understanding of God words has never/is not/will never be perfect, so interpretations change…that’s why i don’t worry about your silly statement above
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
^ What good is the word of god if it cannot be understood and agreed upon by those who are receiving it and are supposed to live their life by it? and you think mine statement is silly 
IS god that sadistic?
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
turn your brain on and find the answer by yourself i am not your wisdom
However here is a tip: why are scientists reasearching and producing science whereas we know that todays knowledge is based on theories some of which will be proved wrong in the near/middle/long term?
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
^ I have a tip for you too. 
But let’s not regress my sweet parisian crepe…knowledge is a compendium of human experience, it is not a flaky divine mandate that is not unversally accepted. In a world of theories, empricially proven ones stay until they cannot be sustained. Rest is gobbledegook, like scripture. see you at collette at 4pm for our coffee.. 
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
it’s already 7.45PM!!!
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
People believing that Gandhi liberated India from the English, is a bunch of croc…
The movement of ‘non-violence’ was a failure from the beginning…The British were more than ready to mow down non-Brit men, women and children as was witnessed in the Jaliyanwala Baagh, where almost a hundred died just by jumping in a small well…
It was the teachings of Hz. Shah Wali-Ullah :rehm:, whose teachings of Jihad woke up the Muslims of the sub-continent, who had completely lost the meaning of Jihad…That was why India was so easily taken over by the British…
It was the Muslims who liberated India by killing many English and ‘terrorizing’ them out of India…British had no qualms about using whatever means necessary to keep this golden goose but the rising cost and death toll of the British troops was a heavy blow to the Empire…
They had to pull out…But could they ever admit that they left because of Indian Mujahideen? Could they admit defeat due to a resistance?
So they had to leave and also save face, as a result they needed a poster boy, someone who would fit the image of, ‘We are leaving because the niceness of this man made us…’
Who got chosen? Gandhi…And what happened to the sacrifices of Muslim martyrs? Forgotten, and today, India again is willing to lick the feet of its previous enslavers…
So in my view, Hz. Shah Wali-Ullah :rehm: and all the Muslim martyrs who died to oust murderers, killers and rapists from the subcontinent, each and every one, individually hold a much higher value for me than Gandhi…
Re: where is the ghandi of islam?
Muslims don't need a Gandhi, they need the Messiah who can walk on water to save them. I don't know how much humiliation is suffice to get them all on their knees and start praying for the promised one?