Where does religious tolerence ends...?

The world already knows what the Taliban are, a bunch of tribal barbarians. The world however does not know that their educated brothren who live in the US, UK, or Canada are not any different.

Let's expose them for what they are. Copy the provocative posts from this forum and send them with a note of explanation to your senators, congressmen, governer (they are always glad to hear from you. They generally have web sites), newspapers (try the Washington Post, LA times, csmonitor.com, and your local papers), and local TV stations. When the public realizes that we are dealing with such barbarians amongst us, we can start appropriate legal and political actions.

[This message has been edited by schopenhauer (edited March 05, 2001).]

Shopehauer, It’s OK. That need not be done. Everyone should have the right to express what he or she feels without fear of being labeled anything. How about if I send your message to Taliban? Your butt will be roosted and they prefer it Well-done. So give it up. In terms of what I think of this whole incidence, here are my thoughts:

Everyone has plenty of excuses to justify their personal hatred of others, whether it be their hatred of the West or just plain smugness combined with ignorance. For some, it appears as if Muslims (I mean Taliban) can’t do anything wrong and the rest of the world can’t seem to do anything right. Reasons are being put forth in dozens. Someone mentioned about the value of Human Lives vs. the “material” Artifacts. Well tell that to the Palestinians to give up their dreams of “materials” and concentrate on saving the human lives – both their own and their opponents. What Taliban have done to these priceless masterpieces is nonreversible, trying to justify their stupidity is more stupid than the original stupidity. Taliban, a bunch of stupid morons, whom the world could live without.

Shopen, now report that your Senator.

NYA:
I will definitely report to my senator that a threat on my life was made. I am willing to give my life if it makes people aware that we are not safe in our homes from the terrorists living amongst us. Thanks for the warning.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Rani:
I am getting the underlying impression that u are happy that they have destroyed the Statues.

And I am getting the underlying impression that you are happy with the murderous sanctions that are killing the afghani kids, or the indian army thats killing the kashmiris, or the israelis that are killing palestinians.

This has nothing to do with Kids which u keep bring.

To you it doesnt, since as mentioned above, you seem to be ok with their murders and inhumane deaths.

Afganis should take care of their kids like all of us do...it is not world's responisibility to look after them or their kids.

Then the world should leave all business decisions to individual countries. Just because America cannot have Osama, doesnt give it the right to engineer UN backed sanctions that will force the entire world to cut off business dealings with Afghanistan. There should be a height to selfishness and desperation.

I guess you have no sympathy for women, whole world knows how badly they are treated in Afganistan.

Women dont need 'sympathy' from me. They are regarded as equal beings in Islam, hence they will get the same amount of sympathy as will men. Such disparity does not exist in Islam. Maybe in hinduism, but not in Islam.

I have not seen anybody covered head to toe in North America. Covering is religious sactioned and implemented with great zeal...it is not left on an individual to decide.

Now I have to question whether you are indeed living in North America or not. I guess you have never seen a hijabi woman. Most muslim females on this very forum will testify to wearing hijabs themselves, and that they do so without any pressure, and with pride.

Try walking around covered from head to toe for one day u will realize how punitive and hard it is.

For you, it is hard and punitive, no doubt. But then again, noone is asking u to wear it anyway. The ladies who do wear it, wear it out of modesty, and their own choice. And while wearing hijab, they conduct daily life affairs in public on a daily basis in more countries than you would care to believe.

To respect other people's choice is civilized to impose your will on others is controlling and uncivilized.

I think Pristine adequately answered this question above. Imposition of law is a system's responsibility. And in Afghanistan and other muslim countries, the system is governed by Islam. That is not a very hard concept to grasp.

Most of us wear suitable clothes, just as men do and we don't need anybody to tell us how to dress up. Most women have enough common sense to do that they are not slaves.

Can a woman walk naked in the US? refer to Pristines response above. What you fail to realize is that its not the law that we are comparing, its the extent of the law that is being compared. Its not the absence of something....its the lack or excess of it that regulates a society.

All non-muslims world hates the way Taliban treats women, minorities and their own people. We don't want to legitimize that by dealing with them.

With little logic, here u make it clear that your hatred is religiously motivated...something that has been proven adequately, yet you deny, merely to legitimize your false claims.

Pakistan wants to take over Afganistan and keep it as a colony that is why it is forcing Taliban government on the people of Afganistan.

This is Pakistan, not India. We do have have the habit of attacking neighboring countries like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh or China. That raw attitude is better suited to India that has engaged in limited or extended war with each of its neighbors except Nepal. Yet instead of adding colonies, they are ready to fall apart.

As for accusing me, most muslims hate non-muslims, read the posts on this forum regarding Hinduism, Indians and Americans etc.

The posts are instigated by Indian members, who are more than welcome to post here....and they make full use of that freedom....something that they dont get on indian forums. I know it gets boring after consistently praising yourself with no opposition whatsoever.

One just have to see where muslim countries are now...all that control of people and women and intense preoccupation with religion has sapped their energy, they have not produced any great scientist or thinker for centuries.

How many centuries are we talking about here? And not that I am going to list the names of great learned muslims, but its an extremely desperate act to say that muslims havent produced any great scientist for centuries, specially when you know thats not true. The main technological advancements in the world came only in the last 100 years...and they were facilitated for the westerners, not because they had better brains than muslims or the easterners, but because they managed to use military power to override eastern economies, thus disabling them to a large extent.

Rani iwas about to type a replay, But Akif said it better.

schopenhauer cool down man, Don't say any thing that can harm you.If taliban have a point of view that you dont like than shut up . You cannot do any thing about it any ways.And your American friends they can't either.

shopenhaar.
Please also share some of the civilized and humane customs of 'highly educated' indians with the same senators? Dont forget to tell them about child infanticide, bride burning, satti and Babri Masjid that goes on in india. Then we can also expose them for what they are. Copy the provocative posts from this forum and send them with a note of explanation to your senators, congressmen, governer (they are always glad to hear from you. They generally have web sites), newspapers (try the Washington Post, LA times, csmonitor.com, and your local papers), and local TV stations. When the public realizes that we are dealing with such barbarians amongst us, we can start appropriate legal and political actions.

Let me know if you need me to testify.

NYA....this matter has affected different people in different ways. Usually what happens is that one good deed brings out a hundred good deeds. And one bad deed brings out a hundred bad deeds. If the response of the international community is uniform for every such situation, then its understandable. But for the most part, its the hypocrisy that gets people riled up.

I have repeatedly said that the destruction of the statues was wrong, ill-advised, needless and ignorant. However, the world all over has done nothing to recognize the majority govt so as to get themselves in a position to even negotiate with the taleban.

All this madness will take a lot more than just a change in attitude by the taleban.

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
shopenhaar.
Please also share some of the civilized and humane customs of 'highly educated' indians with the same senators? Dont forget to tell them about child infanticide, bride burning, satti and Babri Masjid that goes on in india. Then we can also **expose them for what they are. Copy the provocative posts from this forum and send them with a note of explanation to your senators, congressmen, governer (they are always glad to hear from you. They generally have web sites), newspapers (try the Washington Post, LA times, csmonitor.com, and your local papers), and local TV stations. When the public realizes that we are dealing with such barbarians amongst us, we can start appropriate legal and political actions.

Let me know if you need me to testify.

NYA....this matter has affected different people in different ways. Usually what happens is that one good deed brings out a hundred good deeds. And one bad deed brings out a hundred bad deeds. If the response of the international community is uniform for every such situation, then its understandable. But for the most part, its the hypocrisy that gets people riled up.

I have repeatedly said that the destruction of the statues was wrong, ill-advised, needless and ignorant. However, the world all over has done nothing to recognize the majority govt so as to get themselves in a position to even negotiate with the taleban.

All this madness will take a lot more than just a change in attitude by the taleban.**
[/quote]

So because the government is in the majority it can do whatsoever it pleases? What if Shron in Israel decides to take over Jerusalem once and for all. Would you not complain from afar because you have no control over the siuation? That is what everyone against the idiotic act of the taliban is doing.

Schophen$hit,

make sure your senator gets a copy of this post. Unfortunately I don’t live in America so he can do f**k all.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/cool.gif

I think the following article sums up the situation very well.
http://www.iviews.com/scripts/articles/stories/default.cfm?id=9611&category_id=39

The double standards of the “civilised” are amply exposed - where were these “civilised” people when mosques were raised to the ground in, wait for it, BOSNIA, KOSOVO, etc. (forget India), and their Imams were being butchered?
Do read the article and pass it on to others.

[This message has been edited by Awam ki Awaz (edited March 05, 2001).]

Akif

And I am getting the underlying impression that you are happy with the murderous sanctions that are killing the afghani kids, or the indian army thats killing the kashmiris, or the israelis that are killing palestinians.

All my sympathies are with people who have to deal with your kind of mind set. This proves that Indians and Pakistanis are very different and can never be friends.

Lets build high fences to keep each other out, after all good and tall fences make good neighbors.

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
**Akif

All my sympathies are with people who have to deal with your kind of mind set. This proves that Indians and Pakistanis are very different and can never be friends.

Lets build high fences to keep each other out, after all good and tall fences make good neighbors.
**
[/quote]

Whats sad is that rather than acknowledge the lack of exposure than the killings of humans get around the world, you are more prone to work around that and target ur comments towards me personally.

Your m.o. is to work around with words, and never accept the fact, no matter how much it may be staring you in the face. All the best.

That is the mindset that most indians share with each other; one that has alienated them from each of their neighboring countries.

The world already knows what the Taliban are, a bunch of tribal barbarians. The world however does not know that their educated brothren who live in the US, UK, or Canada are not any different.

Those “barbarians” have offices in New York. A Taliban jet pilot is a taxi driver in New York who was on MSNBC defending Taliban. For your information, not everyone in America is a coward like you.

Let’s expose them for what they are. Copy the provocative posts from this forum and send them with a note of explanation to your senators, congressmen, governor (they are always glad to hear from you. They generally have web sites), newspapers (try the Washington Post, LA times, csmonitor.com, and your local papers), and local TV stations. When the public realizes that we are dealing with such barbarians amongst us, we can start appropriate legal and political actions.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you are a joke!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

Where do we get these people? First FBI and now news papers? hahahahahahahahaha…

You are so lame that you are disgusting. Who are you trying to scare? Buncha FOB’z? Go get a life you desi coward!!!

Ever heard of KKK my friend? If they can hate an entire racial group based on their skin color (forget about religious and cultural beliefs) and are allowed to march down streets shouting, “die nigger die!” And “if we see you in our neighborhoods we will kill you!” then you think us debating here is so word worthy to them?

You think they don’t know how every Muslim feels about the situations that they put us in?

Go to any MiddeEastern protest in America you moron! You will find hundreds like us! So why don’t you shut your hole and if you don’t like it then leave. You are making yourself look ridiculously lame. Opppsssssssss to late

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif


We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

I think the original issue we were discussing was the inter-relationship of religious tolerance (international relations) and implementation of islamic rules. The discussion, somehow, side-tracked to Indo-Pak and hindu-muslim tirade, thanks to some of our over-zealous “friends”

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Based on today’s Dawn newspaper, I will say, that the whole statue issue has been grossly mis-played by Talibaan authorities. Now they have really got the whole muslim ummah wide open to attacks on muslim religious sites, at a time when muslim ummah, as a whole is incapable of defending some of its most cherished holy places. Al Aqsa being one of them. (Do we expect stone-throwing youth to stand a chance against Israeli army?)

Repeated appeals by Buddhist authorities and Dalai Lama were ignored. Which is quite sad. If the same thing happens to muslims, and some zealous government in Israel, decides to destroy precious collections of Quran or other Islamic artifacts on the same grounds, what will be the argument offered by muslims?

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
** Whats sad is that rather than acknowledge the lack of exposure than the killings of humans get around the world, you are more prone to work around that and target ur comments towards me personally.

Your m.o. is to work around with words, and never accept the fact, no matter how much it may be staring you in the face. All the best.

That is the mindset that most indians share with each other; one that has alienated them from each of their neighboring countries.

**
[/quote]

We have to develop this kind of mind set to deal with people next door, who practice religious discrimination. They rationalize all kinds of senseless vulger destruction and turn around and blame others for all their ills, if they try to reason with them.

I think u should examine Pakistan's relationship with Iran and your dwindling relationship with West and killing of Shias and mess u have made in Afganistan, before you take interest in our friendships.

P.S. Accoding to the recent news report Canada is trying to forge closer ties with India . It has abandon the policy of treating India and Pakistan at par...our friends are growing.

Rani:

[quote]
Accoding to the recent news report Canada is trying to forge closer ties with India . It has abandon the policy of treating India and Pakistan at par...our friends are growing.
[/quote]

Friendship cannot be bought. What you are talking about is a business arrangement. So this information has no relevance at all to this thread. Unless you are proving that western governments are happy to deal with Governments that demolish religious relics.

[quote]
Originally posted by Mr Xtreme:
**Rani:

Friendship cannot be bought. What you are talking about is a business arrangement. So this information has no relevance at all to this thread. Unless you are proving that western governments are happy to deal with Governments that demolish religious relics.**
[/quote]

You CANNOT be that naaive? You are "friends" with the Chinese, they are brutishly putting down the Uighurs? Why are you friends with them, or is it a wishful disregard for your muslim bretheren at the cost of "business arrangement" to get some missile technology?
Gimme a break, geopolitcs is much more complex than your pitiful answer.

Infoman,

what are you blabbering about? That's exactly what I am saying, i.e. 'friendship' is more about geopolitics and therefore moralising crap about broken buddhas in Afghanistan is redundant.

[quote]
Originally posted by Mr Xtreme:
**Infoman,

what are you blabbering about? That's exactly what I am saying, i.e. 'friendship' is more about geopolitics and therefore moralising crap about broken buddhas in Afghanistan is redundant. **
[/quote]

There is obvious moral implications in the destruction of the buddhas. It is an abominable, stupid and disrespectful act taken by people who have no dignity. Whether it is a religious edict or a political one, the edict is immoral and against human decency.

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
** We have to develop this kind of mind set to deal with people next door, who practice religious discrimination. They rationalize all kinds of senseless vulger destruction and turn around and blame others for all their ills, if they try to reason with them.

I think u should examine Pakistan's relationship with Iran and your dwindling relationship with West and killing of Shias and mess u have made in Afganistan, before you take interest in our friendships.....**
[/quote]

First of all, you have finally acknowledged that you(indians) do have a nationaly and religously biased mindset. I really shouldnt have to say anything beyond that in order to prove my point, and besides, this 2 page thread is getting awfully painful to load. However, Pakistan's relationships with Muslim countries around the world are close and amicable, and anything beyond that is a bonus. What should I exactly examine about Pakistan-Iran relationship? Care to highlight it please? Sectarian killing in Pakistan is done in the name of politics, and more often than not, is powered by outside forces, as has been proven time and again. However, I dont claim to be proud of any such killings, neither do I endorse them. But in no way do they affect Pakistan's stance on the issues that are important. As for Afghanistan, please do not repeat the same story over and over again, especially when you yourself know its not true.

PS. What does Canada's 'friendship' with India have anything to do with this? India is to Russia what Israel is to USA. And well, at least Israel has conived its way to military supremacy and economic balance. India still lags eons behind in that respect, and its 'friendship' with canada will not turn the economy around overnight.