Where does religious tolerence ends...?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

This is with reference to Talibaan destroying Buddhist statues, including some of the one-and-only kind in the world…

… and I was thinking, ok so statutes are against the orders of Allah, and have been destroyed many times in history.

Hazrat Ibrahim (RA) destroyed statues. Rasool Allah (SAWW) destroyed statues after Victory in Mekkah. Mehmood Ghaznavi destroyed statues in India after his victory.

In present day circumstances, where a lot of muslims preach religious tolerance and respect for all faiths, etc etc … I guess the question is, do we give some weightage to religious tolerance too or for certain matters, islam tells us to do things regardless of whether any other religion or belief is getting hurt?

[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited March 03, 2001).]

2

Well after the conquest of Makkah alot of non muslims were free to worship their Gods and thas how a muslim is brought up that to respect other religion as they will do the same with you..Its like "give and take"

As far as Hazrat ibrahim destroyed statues he just wanna prove his point...

I dont see a reason taliban destroying the statues especially under the name of Islam which caused a stir or commotion lately. It gives a poor impression of islam to other nations. As we are already labelled as Islamic terrorist ...

Yarooo mein bara pareshan ek larki jawaaan
Hai woh barii shaitaan mujhay kar gayi hairaan
Kaisay karoun inkaar wo jo karaing Izhaar

[This message has been edited by sherrybaba (edited March 03, 2001).]

3

u r on spot, pristine. religious tolerence is unislamic.

4

I think the statue should be left alone, because it is not being worshipped any more. I am sure there are no buddist monks to worship it, but if Taliban want to demolish it, they can and no one can do nothing.

Lets see if the big greatly worshipped statue can save its self.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

5

This point is interesting. Do we object to statues only if people are praying to them?

I remember, an incident which happened a couple of years back. In Defence, Lahore, there is a round-about called 'Ghazi Chowk'. To make it more attractive, the management commissioned National College of Arts to build statues of THREE soldiers holding the Pakistan flag, depicting the spirit of 'ghazis'. Once it was installed and unvieled, there were some street protests there, and a small minority of residents protested alongwith the masjid ke moulvis etc.

To cut a long story short, after a few days, the statues were removed (probably destroyed) and in its place came the every-popular fountain.

So... is this fascination with statues limited to those which are for praying only?

6

[quote]
Originally posted by Pristine:
**This point is interesting. Do we object to statues only if people are praying to them?

So... is this fascination with statues limited to those which are for praying only?**
[/quote]

No, I think this kind of intolerance runs in the very vein of Islam. Some one mentioned that every other religion is losing it's base as people are becoming more atheistic. I think people in general are evolving to a higher degree of conciousness and questioning the tenets of strict religious practices. Like Martin Luther in the 1500's and Buddha before that. While everyone is evolving, the few strict interpretors of islam are going into the opposite direction.
They should be careful before they go back too far and end up in the jungles of congo. But wait...that's not in the Quran?

7

[quote]
Originally posted by sherrybaba:
**Well after the conquest of Makkah alot of non muslims were free to worship their Gods and thas how a muslim is brought up that to respect other religion as they will do the same with you..Its like "give and take"

As far as Hazrat ibrahim destroyed statues he just wanna prove his point...

I dont see a reason taliban destroying the statues especially under the name of Islam which caused a stir or commotion lately. It gives a poor impression of islam to other nations. As we are already labelled as Islamic terrorist ...

**
[/quote]

By not destroying those figures will the world change their mind and say that Muslims are not terrorists?

The fact is no. They are all hypocrites and none believers. Now days all these “modern” (west asskissers) wont even use the word Kaffir because they find it offensive! Hahahahaha such Hypocrites!!!

Today many Muslims have shown their true face by calling it not Islamic. The mere fact is that these hypocrites just want to look good front of others, where Taleban and the people of Afghan never gave a jack about what people think or do! And if they had any problem then they know where they at.

Tomorrow they are going to say that praying five times a day is wrong. People don’t have to because they are “busy” with their lives. Next thing you know they will say that Masjids are not important because Allah (swt) lives in your “heart” and you don’t have to go to a place to please HIM.

Just like Christanity you will have 70 versions of Islam.

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

[This message has been edited by yOuNgBrAt (edited March 03, 2001).]

8

Tolerance is a part of Islam. For centuries Muslims have co-exsisted with other religions and cultures as we do today. If we are true Muslims and faithful to the Um'ah, we would not attend to such petty matters as the Taliban have taken upon.

It's great how they have brought the light of Islam and all but it's gotten to a point of hysteria, reflective of the witch hunts of the 18th Century in America. They are searching for flaws that are not there.

I have been reading articles on the Taliban for many years and conclude that while their general core is virtous, it's the ones on the outside who (Behind the Shield of Islam) commit atrocious acts. - That's why all those Afghani's cannot survive in their own country and hence are being runned off to Pakistan.

The destruction that they are doing is a reflection of their ways.   We are no one to judge - For that is up to Allah to decide.   But from this human's point of view .  I disagree.

Share your experiences - they cost you nothing but will make us all richer.

9

I don't understand how can anyone in t/ name of religion disrespect & ultimately destroy anyone's religious & culutural sites & symbols. It's simply disgraceful.Whether there was a single Buddhist left in Afghanistan or not, religious symbols should have been left alone. Not only is disrespecting others' believes (whatever they maybe) giving a bad impression (which is not a point I'm making) but most of all not allowed in Islam. Places of whorship or their symbols should have been left alone. It's a shame. What's next Moen jo Daro & Taxilla. It's ignorance, whatever their reasoning or xcuses maybe.

Don't cry & complain if sum1 does this to our mosques in a non Muslim country (like Babri Masjid, where thousands of people were also massacred!).

10

Comparison with Babri Mosque demolition is remarkable.

Anyone care to comment on that angle?

11

[quote]
Originally posted by ZZ:
u r on spot, pristine. religious tolerence is unislamic.
[/quote]

Can i compare you to a hyena that hides out, waiting for the tiger to make a kill, and then come out and feast on the remains? They dont do much either. They never hunt for themselves. And well, they eat dead stuff.

I dont agree with the taleban destroying any statues that might be associated with some religion. However, this isnt remotely related to religious tolerance. This is more about ignorance.
Plus, it also highlights the enormous hypocrisy going on around the world, where the world sits and watches as the afghani civilians drop like flies under illegal and baseless UN sanctions, and jumps like pancakes when stone structures are demolished. Whatever happened to the screwed up priorities of the so called humanitarians around the world?

There is more tolerance in Islam than in any other religion. or perhaps just as much. Its the blind hatred of the west that feeds this negative image around the world...and frankly, its the attempts at damage control by muslims that make things even worse.

I dont agree with talebans move to destroy the statues. It was very ill-advised, and couldnt have come at a worse time. However, at the same time, the hypocrisy that it has exposed on part of the rest of the world is even more saddening and pathetic.

By the way, I dont think its fair to compare this destruction of statues with Hazrat Ibrahim AS and Prophet SAWs actions in Makkah.

12

[quote]
Originally posted by Infoman:
** No, I think this kind of intolerance runs in the very vein of Islam. Some one mentioned that every other religion is losing it's base as people are becoming more atheistic.**
[/quote]

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
Religions like hinduism, communism and judaism may be losing their base to atheism, but Islam has continued to grow at the fastest pace, and the number of people converting to islam from other beliefs is staggering. A simple denial of this fact may bring peace to u, but wont change the fact.

13

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
** Can i compare you to a hyena that hides out, waiting for the tiger to make a kill, and then come out and feast on the remains? They dont do much either. They never hunt for themselves. And well, they eat dead stuff.

I dont agree with the taleban destroying any statues that might be associated with some religion. However, this isnt remotely related to religious tolerance. This is more about ignorance.
Plus, it also highlights the enormous hypocrisy going on around the world, where the world sits and watches as the afghani civilians drop like flies under illegal and baseless UN sanctions, and jumps like pancakes when stone structures are demolished. Whatever happened to the screwed up priorities of the so called humanitarians around the world?

There is more tolerance in Islam than in any other religion. or perhaps just as much. Its the blind hatred of the west that feeds this negative image around the world...and frankly, its the attempts at damage control by muslims that make things even worse.

I dont agree with talebans move to destroy the statues. It was very ill-advised, and couldnt have come at a worse time. However, at the same time, the hypocrisy that it has exposed on part of the rest of the world is even more saddening and pathetic.

By the way, I dont think its fair to compare this destruction of statues with Hazrat Ibrahim AS and Prophet SAWs actions in Makkah.

**
[/quote]

To compare the plight of the Afghan people to that of the destruction of the beautiful statues is ridiculuous. No body is FOR the famine, disease and war in afghanistan. Everyone cares about the people of Afghanistan. As human beings we all feel for their misery. We don't defend the sanctions on the poor people. But the fault cannot be completely placed on the west. They are also the ones providing food, shelter and medicines to the Afghanis. Christian Charities still has established centers and provides food to the war ravaged people. That is a U.S. organization one of many. So don't give me that crap on what is the world doing about the people of Afghanistan.A LOT MORE THAN THE TALIBAN IS.

The hypocricy is that you people keep shouting that the world is against Islam but at the same time you need to justify Taliban actions in the destruction of those ancient relics. They are not only religious treasures but also cultural ones. I would be incensed if the Taj Mahal or QUtub Minar were destroyed, as I was when the Babri Masjid was. Nothing can jusify these actions. These crazy people give a bad name to islam and that is the bottom line. I keep hearing that there is nothing in the quran that is against tolerance of other religions and 95% of adherents are tolerant. It is this 5% of depraved humanity that foments divisions. Sorry for the tirade but readings posts by Youngbrat and others who justify this abomination just makes one a tad bitter.

14

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
** Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
Religions like hinduism, communism and judaism may be losing their base to atheism, but Islam has continued to grow at the fastest pace, and the number of people converting to islam from other beliefs is staggering. A simple denial of this fact may bring peace to u, but wont change the fact.

**
[/quote]

But is this the BRAND of Islam that needs to be followed? I say more power to those who want to follow islam. But not at the cost of increased militancy, increased intolerance and increased depravity for basic human behaviors.

15

Sorry for the tirade but readings posts by Youngbrat and others who justify this abomination just makes one a tad bitter.

Did I say that I agree or disagree with what they are doing? I’m neutral on this issue.

The only thing that I was pointing out was how the UN can be brought to it knees by people of pride and courage. My point is clear, that no matter how technically advance you are or no matter how rich you are, you can still be brought on your knees by people who are literally consider of no match.

Don’t under estimate anyone.

Salaam.

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

16

btw, the main reason behind all this was to piss the world off. And they did.

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

17

** To compare the plight of the Afghan people to that of the destruction of the beautiful statues is ridiculuous.**

Why is it ridiculous? because it exposes the hypocrisy of the so called humanitarians of the world?

No body is FOR the famine, disease and war in afghanistan. Everyone cares about the people of Afghanistan. As human beings we all feel for their misery.

Thats why you are so vehemently defending the destruction of stone idols, yet your vehemence mysteriously disappears when it comes to raising the same hue and cry about living beings. Dont blame the taleban for creating a russian puppet regime in Afghanistan. Wouldnt you wage a war against your government if you knew it was being controlled by Pakistan? Be realistic.

We don't defend the sanctions on the poor people.

Yes you do, which is why you dont voice your opinions against them in public forums. You choose to target a meaningless demolition of stone structures.

Christian Charities still has established centers and provides food to the war ravaged people. That is a U.S. organization one of many.So don't give me that crap on what is the world doing about the people of Afghanistan

I dont deny that. However, that does not make up for the wrongs that they are doing. Besides, what they are doing is a fraction of what needs to be done. Pakistan, an already overpopulated country, was made to bear the brunt of Afghanis when they had some use to the US in the 80s, and they are STILL bearing the brunt of it, when US has no more use for Afghanistan. Its the west that has plunged Afghanistan into this abyss, and its no crap.

I would be incensed if the Taj Mahal or QUtub Minar were destroyed, as I was when the Babri Masjid was.

Wrong. My ears must have given out at that exact time, but somehow i was unable to hear the hue and cry raised by hindus against the demolition of Babri masjid. Can u playback some of that for me?

Its true that Quran does not condone religious intolerance, and noone here is condoning the demolition of the statues either. I wouldnt do it if the statues were under my jurisdiction. Its unfair and ignorant. But this incident has sure helped highlight some prime hypocrisy around the world, in addition to highlighting religious 'ignorance' by the taleban...not 'intolerance'.

18

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
**** To compare the plight of the Afghan people to that of the destruction of the beautiful statues is ridiculuous.**

Why is it ridiculous? because it exposes the hypocrisy of the so called humanitarians of the world

They are not directly related. I should go and destroy the Taj Mahal, because there misery in Kashmir? Huh??

No body is FOR the famine, disease and war in afghanistan. Everyone cares about the people of Afghanistan. As human beings we all feel for their misery.

Thats why you are so vehemently defending the destruction of stone idols, yet your vehemence mysteriously disappears when it comes to raising the same hue and cry about living beings. Dont blame the taleban for creating a russian puppet regime in Afghanistan. Wouldnt you wage a war against your government if you knew it was being controlled by Pakistan? Be realistic.

Actually, I am NOT venhemantly defending the destruction of the Stone Idols. I am vehemenatly against the sanctions and the
destruction of the idols. If this action is due to some political posturing by the Taliban, then they are unfit to rule. If they can't distinguish between political aims and religious aims then that is to their detriment.( I am now going to get a lecture on the virtues of the Khalifa and Islamic law)
We don't defend the sanctions on the poor people.

Yes you do, which is why you dont voice your opinions against them in public forums. You choose to target a meaningless demolition of stone structures.

There are daily deliberations in the newspapers, and magazines and webforums where people like me( my point is made clear above)look for options rather than complain. It is very easy to complain. The fault is not one sided and it never is. Any monkey can say the are against the taliban or that they are against the sanctions. Very few people do actually try to find solutions or give support through NGO's. I Do...Do you? Or does your wallet never reach where your mouth goes? I guess we will keep argiung because you think that "the destruction is meaningless"

Christian Charities still has established centers and provides food to the war ravaged people. That is a U.S. organization one of many.So don't give me that crap on what is the world doing about the people of Afghanistan

I dont deny that. However, that does not make up for the wrongs that they are doing. Besides, what they are doing is a fraction of what needs to be done. Pakistan, an already overpopulated country, was made to bear the brunt of Afghanis when they had some use to the US in the 80s, and they are STILL bearing the brunt of it, when US has no more use for Afghanistan. Its the west that has plunged Afghanistan into this abyss, and its no crap.

It is always someone else's fault. I have made my point above

I would be incensed if the Taj Mahal or QUtub Minar were destroyed, as I was when the Babri Masjid was.

Wrong. My ears must have given out at that exact time, but somehow i was unable to hear the hue and cry raised by hindus against the demolition of Babri masjid. Can u playback some of that for me?

Play by play: The idiotic Hindu mob that destroyed the masjid is to blame, as should
the Leaders that propagated the situation, as are the idiots who rioted in Bombay. India should do more to put the right fomenters in prison for the despicable occurance.
Its true that Quran does not condone religious intolerance, and noone here is condoning the demolition of the statues either. I wouldnt do it if the statues were under my jurisdiction. Its unfair and ignorant. But this incident has sure helped highlight some prime hypocrisy around the world, in addition to highlighting religious 'ignorance' by the taleban...not 'intolerance'. **
[/quote]

I am getting quite irked by the "Hypocricy" mentioned. Let me turn it around on you. Should it be ok for Indian military to destroy the Jama Masjid, because it is their country and they can do what they want. There is no either or in this situation. The Taliban idiots are both intolerant and ignorant..

19

Heres a dose of reality. I can guarantee you if the taleban had demolished those statues in silence, noone would have ever noticed, and hence, there would have been no mention of it. The taleban chose to make it a public affairs issue, and thats where they erred more than anything else.
Jamia masjid in Dehli is different, since its being used by muslims. Its not a no name establishment.

However, regardless, again, the demolitions were extremely ill-advised. However, at the same time, I think the press exposure this demolition has gotten compared to the press exposure the thousands of dying children get is ridiculous.

20

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
**Heres a dose of reality. I can guarantee you if the taleban had demolished those statues in silence, noone would have ever noticed, and hence, there would have been no mention of it. The taleban chose to make it a public affairs issue, and thats where they erred more than anything else.
Jamia masjid in Dehli is different, since its being used by muslims. Its not a no name establishment.

However, regardless, again, the demolitions were extremely ill-advised. However, at the same time, I think the press exposure this demolition has gotten compared to the press exposure the thousands of dying children get is ridiculous.**
[/quote]

It seems tome you are the only one that hasn't heard about the Bamiyan Buddhas. Put down your AK-47 and pick up a book. Culture is a human achievement not a religious one. Read some my replies in the other threads on this issue.

There has been ample press coverage about the destruction of the Afghani people. Only a few months back, I remember reading that the Taliban had begun asking the relief agencies to leave because of the sanctions placed. Who is the culprit there??? The relief agencies???? The problem with these idiots is that they are like babies. They hold their breath and pout to get their way, regardless of the parties involved and the ends to be achieved.