Where does religious tolerence ends...?

I am not going to counter your generalizations with stereotyping of my own, because we both know how ridiculous it sounds the moment it comes out of one's mouth. Anyway, you are right, I havent heard of the bamiyan buddhas....and neither have the thousands of indians screaming out at the top of their lungs...nor the meuseum enthusiasts around the world.

The fact is, the taleban wanted to draw attention....so they did, and did very effectively. The only pictures to have come out of Afghanistan of the statues are 3 to 6 year old ones. Who knows, the statues might have already been destroyed 2 years ago. Do you have any proof they werent?

The problem with these idiots is that they are like babies. They hold their breath and pout to get their way<<<

Regarding the taleban's attitude, I dont condone it. However, the suppression that they have faced from the world is as stupid as drag queens. For the US to impose sanctions for want of but ONE person (Osama), whos the crybaby here? If you dont give me that one man, i will decimate the whole nation and no more food for you....thats the attitude of a cry baby.

If the US/UN cant have Osama, they decide to starve millions of people. And when those kids start dying, they send them aid. What is this? a merry go round of idiotic behavior?

[This message has been edited by Akif (edited March 04, 2001).]

Wow … and that’s Islamic??

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

And so it shows it was a Political decision … not a religious one! And so is their whole movement!


Humanity First! Though I give you the right to disagree …

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited March 04, 2001).]

Well Akif, a simple question. If the Taliban cared more about the babies than Osama then why didn't they extradite him and continue getting food donation from the US? Would give a dime to the begger who spits in your face?

Going back to the original post’s examples!

Hazoor(saw) demolished the statues ONLY in Khana Kaba, not at other places. Reason being that Khana Kaba was built as a place to Worship Allah, and the foundations were laid by Hazrat Ibrahim (as) The pagans took it over afterwards! Did he do it after Allah told him in a Wahi, I am not claiming that right now (but my heart says that’s the case) I will surely ask around to see if I can get some proof before claiming as such!

If he had broken down all the statues for the fun of it, then he would have gone to all the Church’s and Pagan places in Mecca & Madina and would have broken all their statues as well. Later as Islam prevailed, people who converted broke their idols themselves, and I think they had the right to do so!

Why did Mehmood Ghaznavi did it … I guess he will be answerable for it!

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These are my thoughts, others can surely disagree!


Humanity First! Though I give you the right to disagree …

[quote]
Originally posted by schopenhauer:
Well Akif, a simple question. If the Taliban cared more about the babies than Osama then why didn't they extradite him and continue getting food donation from the US? Would give a dime to the begger who spits in your face?
[/quote]

Talibans rely upon Allah for help and not worldly sources. If US stops so called aid, wouldn't make any difference.

Well Akif, a simple question. If the Taliban cared more about the babies than Osama then why didn't they extradite him and continue getting food donation from the US? Would give a dime to the begger who spits in your face?<<

What reason do they have to extradite Osama? America's self manufactured evidences? or puppet witnesses? In the absence of any solid evidence, the taleban are under no obligation to hand over Osama to anyone. And its America's defeatist attitude that led them to impose inhumane sanctions on Afghanistan just because they were unable to get Osama.
Would you compromise on your morals principles to get the world to support you? Would you do something wrong just so that you could be accepted by the 'crowd'? Neither would the taleban.

[quote]
Originally posted by outlaw:
**
Talibans rely upon Allah for help and not worldly sources. If US stops so called aid, wouldn't make any difference. **
[/quote]

AND GOD HELPS THOSE THAT HELP THEMSELVES.

BTW Akif/ to say that indians and museums didn't know about the Buddhas is incorrect. Pick up any book on Buddhist art, they are quiten prominent. Your statement is categorically incorrect.

Then the Taliban should stop accepting food donation from the US and impose a sanction on the US and we are even. Why blame the US for the death by starvation of Afghanis.

You thumb your nose at us we and our allies don't give you free food. We are even.

I think the main question here is of respecting other people's religious sentiments.So the main question is has any buddhist entity asked for these to be left alone??
If they haven't then the rest of the world has no right to complain.

[quote]
Originally posted by Ahmed:
I think the main question here is of respecting other people's religious sentiments.So the main question is has any buddhist entity asked for these to be left alone??
If they haven't then the rest of the world has no right to complain.

[/quote]

I guess here is the crux of the debate. THE ISSUE IS NOT JUST RELIGIOUS. For the last time, differentiate between History, Culture and Religion!!! BTW/FROM THAILAND to Sri Lanka many buddhists objected.

A resident in Pakistan. His Culture is South Asian "brides wearing red-that's a south Asian custom", His history is Ghaznavi, AShoka, Buddha, Alexander..etc. His religion is Islam or other. GET IT!!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

I agree!!


Humanity First! Though I give you the right to disagree …

The reason Holy Prophet (SAW) destroyed the statues to destroy the idols of who worship others gods then ONE GOD.

Since the statues in Afghanistan were not worshipped by anyone in the country, I don’t understand all the sudden why they have to destroy them now???.

If taliban did not like the statues then they could have asked the West, The So Called Protector of Art and Antiques to come and collect them. The thing is that the mullah leadership in Afghanistan do not think from their grey area once they pissed by anyone.

The bottom line is the now every non-muslims have an opportunity to raise finger on Islam and Muslims being intolerable towards other religion.

I can see that after Pakistan relationship soared with Iran, China, and Other neighbouring countries now the relationship with Nepal may sore as well. I don’t know Pakistan is gaining how much by supporting taliban type groups but IT IS TRUE THAT PAKISTAN IS LOST SUPPORT OF GOOD OLD FRIENDS.


"Away from Eyes......Close to Heart"

Didn't the Pakistan government repeatedly request Talibaan not to destroy the statues?

Atleast that is the impression I garnered by scanning Pakistani newspapers on the web.

Maybe cos they still have some sense left in them …

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif

or maybe that’s also a political decision!


Humanity First! Though I give you the right to disagree …

[quote]
Originally posted by Infoman:
**
BTW/FROM THAILAND to Sri Lanka many buddhists objected.
**
[/quote]

Infoman,
That's the only relevant part of your otherwise useless post.The stance of these entities is largely unheard.Why is that?
I cannot support any action of Taliban taken against another religion if that's what it is.But then why are the buddhist entities not palying an active role?
Probably because they don't care(in which case rest of the world sould shut up).Or perhaps because they understand that they can't talk to Taliban as they don't recognize them.Their loss!Once again showing that to them foreign policy is more important than religious concerns.So as I said before it is what the budhists say(and do)in this issue that matters.
You can't raise the question of tolerance by taliban on this issue as there are no budhsts in Afghanistan,unless some budhist entity approaches them.The question of tolerance arises when budhists enter the picture.
Tliban can't be expected to listen to anybody but the budhists on this issue.

[quote]
Originally posted by Ahmed:
**
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Infoman:
**
BTW/FROM THAILAND to Sri Lanka many buddhists objected.
**
[/quote]

Infoman,
That's the only relevant part of your otherwise useless post.The stance of these entities is largely unheard.Why is that?
I cannot support any action of Taliban taken against another religion if that's what it is.But then why are the buddhist entities not palying an active role?
Probably because they don't care(in which case rest of the world sould shut up).Or perhaps because they understand that they can't talk to Taliban as they don't recognize them.Their loss!Once again showing that to them foreign policy is more important than religious concerns.So as I said before it is what the budhists say(and do)in this issue that matters.
You can't raise the question of tolerance by taliban on this issue as there are no budhsts in Afghanistan,unless some budhist entity approaches them.The question of tolerance arises when budhists enter the picture.
Tliban can't be expected to listen to anybody but the budhists on this issue.**
[/QUOTE]

OOOH! an unprovoked attack, I like it.

Apparently in the hurry to put me down you forgot to read the rest of the message, which pointed out that these Structures are not just religious gems.

So...read what I have posted in another thread here.

To your question about the value provided by these statues. Throughout, history icons, buildings shrines, be they religious, cultural our practical hold a special place in our hearts. Whether it be the Bamiyan Buddhas, the Carvings in Khujaraho or the Sistine chapel. They are not only religious icons, but a legacy of the human race. If the ottoman empire had ruled Rome, I doubt highly that they would have destroyed Michaelangelos work on the sistine chapel. Because, it is a thing of beauty and describes the historical perspective of the architechture and art at that time. These Buddha's are unique carving because of the carving techniques of the "AFGHANIS" during that time and the sheer scale of the statues. Their imposing size when looking around at the surrounding must give an awesome feel. While ISlam may not prescribe it's buildings to be architectural masterpieces, they certainly are. The mosques in 'Irsafan"(sp) are true architectural wonders of scale and color. The islamic carvings on tiles left by the Moors in Seville, spain at the Alcazar provide a vibrant color perpective to the normally drab Christian castle. I would be enraged if the Spaniards ever tried to destroy those tiles and mirrorred inlays in their effort to erase their cultural and historical past. They would be denying their past.

These are all human treasures, they are religious, cultural and artistic. As a community we are enraged, not as Hindu, muslim, or buddhist. Nothing can justify these actions.

The hue and cry is not just because they are religious but they are also historic and cultural gems. Just because there aren't Buddhists banging down the doors to complain to the taliban, it doesn not make it right.

So don't waste my time with limited knowledge backed up by even more limited facts. As I told one of your bretheren before, pick up a book and drop the AK-47

Maybe that might change your mind??

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Protests continue against destruction of statues
Japan’s Concern

[quote]
Originally posted by schopenhauer:
Then the Taliban should stop accepting food donation from the US and impose a sanction on the US and we are even. Why blame the US for the death by starvation of Afghanis.
[/quote]

In case you didnt know, the sanctions are imposed by the UN, a puppet organization of the USA. And all the members of the UN are under obligation to abide by the resolutions that it passes. Its not merely US. The sanctions have clamped down on the afghan economy from all 4 sides, which is as inhumane as anything. If it was merely the US installing its own sanctions, it wouldnt have come to this and noone would have cared. Thats why the crybaby americans made sure the UN imposed sanctions, which would force all the other member countries to join in as well, though unwillingly.

I dont know why this is even an issue worth discussing. Its hypocrisy galore all around. Apparently everyone seems to be more interested in preserving dead artifacts than humans.

Ive got news for all the Buddhists. The Bamiyan statues were destroyed 4 years ago. Where were u since?

For a couple of rock structures that noone has even seen in 20 years, it makes one wonder what exactly is the motivation behind all this 'save the statues' craze.

[This message has been edited by Akif (edited March 04, 2001).]

For a couple of rock structures that noone has even seen in 20 years, it makes one wonder what exactly is the motivation behind all this 'save the statues' craze.

Most of us don't understand the mind set that will destroy these structures.

It the same motivation that is behind saving tombs of ancient Egyptian Kings, Mayan ruins, Pyramids and Hanging Gardens of Babylonia etc...

Their destroying is as bad as people like u trying to rationalize it by accusing the world of wrong doing specially US. If i hated US as much as u do i will pack my bags and move out. It is very hard for most of us to hate a country soo much and then make it our home. I guess u are different.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited March 05, 2001).]

Most of us don't understand the mind set that will destroy these structures

But you do seem to understand the mindset that destroys and kills little babies, infants, adults, women men alike.

Most artifacts around the world get due recognition. The pyramids have a worldly presence. While it would be senseless for the egyptians to destroy them, it wouldnt give the world the right to attack egypt for that.

My presence in the US doesnt make it illegal for me to voice my concerns regarding the evils that come out of here. This argument is as old as the pyramids, and makes as much sense as the taleban destroying the statues.

If one cant classify their priorities according to their value to humanity, they dont deserve the right to speak out about them either.

The statues shouldnt have been destroyed...point noted. But what about humans? are they dispensable? they sure seem to be the way the popular thinking seems to be going around the world. And then, out of these two, whats your priority? Statues? If the taleban destroyed them, dont worry. Go make some more in your backyard. But can you say the same about parents who lose their kids? kids who lose their parents? all thanks to the 'humanitarian armies' around the world? Can u tell those kids to go in their backyards and make new parents?

Prioritize....key word.