where do

[Med911]

Re: where do

@ajazali

Things are absurd without purpose, this is the simplest thing to grasp. This world would not exist if it were proceding randomly, again very simple thing to grasp.
Answer to your question that why everything must have a purpose can also be taken from your very next statement "universe may or may not have been created randomly". If something is created not randomly then it must have a purpose.
The logic nothing can exist without something preceding it is bit ambiguous but it proves that atleast one Master of the universe exists, you must agree this. As that Master is unseen so you cant apply this logic to derive the attributes of the Master further unless you are able to quantify unseen. I am not going into details as it can be discussed separately if one wishes.
Whatever the topic is, this is very common among atheists/agnostics that whenever the fail to counter any specific argument they resort to debate of existence of God. If that is to be their ultimate argument then they should not take any argument without getting an empirical proof of existence of God in first place. But that is not the case, they join the debate to counter the arguments of religion and when find it hard to answer then they resort to “proof of existence of God”. That is poor approach.

You can discuss humanity and animalism as standalone concept, maybe you could not, if you cannot then that means you admit that there is no difference between humanity and animalism. That again proves my stance correct that ideas such as equating humanity with animalism are as bad as hell for this world.

Animals by default have the sense of fulfilling bodily needs not sense of right and wrong. Nevertheless, sense of right and wrong is not same as sense of good and evil and acting upon good only accordingly. Islamicaly, there are few ahadith that explains that animals too follow orders of Allah (s.w.t.).
If you believe in randomness then the concept of right and wrong change abruptly as one may only think for himself only not for others that it leads to evil minded selfishness. Following the theory randomness means there is no sense of right and wrong and greatest beneficence and greatest harm. Since you are reluctant to believe in randomness as true and false it is hard carry on arguments.
Can you tell me what scientific reasoning you have to back your claim that animals have sense of right and wrong and the follow it accordingly?

Following are few questions I want you answer.
You too have said nothing about humanity that is special with human only, would you say that humanity does not exist at all?
You said animals posses the sense of right and wrong, would that means there is on boundary between animals and human and we cannot you distinguish human from animals?
Atheists don’t believe in notion of good and evil, would call them wrong on this or not?
Why you are afraid of assuming the randomness true as atheists does?

Well perhaps some things are absurd without a purpose. But that is how it is. Why try to gleam meaning from something or assume there is meaning if there is none? We simply are… It seems like wishful thinking to assume there must be a purpose to our existence simply because we dont like the consequences of the alternative.

That something is created doeant automatically endow it with purpose. I breath and create Carbon Dioxide, was there a purpose to the creation of CO2 or is it nothing more then a by product of metabolic processes? Similarly, our existance could simply be the result of cosmic metabolic process and our purpose is to simply exist for a time and nothing more.

I only responded to your statement. You said that people assume that the Universe is random. But for it to not be random, I assume you are indicating that you do not believe the Universe is random, implies there must be a creator. But I suppose i went of on a tangent i bit.

I know what your getting at. You are saying that assuming the Universe is Random (without a creator) implies there is no “right or wrong” because there is no ultimate arbitrator to deem something as such. This argument has been made before, and many religious people make this very same argument be they Muslim or Christian etc. But perhaps that is how it is. Perhaps there is no “right or wrong.” Why assume there is anything more then this? Because we dont like the consequences of believing in a Universe where there is ultimately no right or wrong, we assume it must not be?

In regards to your questions:
Research into animals is showing that Animals may well have a sense of right and wrong. Many of our long held assumptions about the cognitive abilities of animals are being challenged by scientific research. Animals feel emotions, they respond to generosity, they shun individuals among them who they perceive as being unjust. Google morality in animals… The gap between humanity and animals seems to be shrinking, and indeed, the only thing that may separate us from them is our ability to do algebra…

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Chimps have ‘sense of fair play’
BBC News - Sharing: Chimp study reveals origins of human fair play
Watch this video, very interesting:
Frans de Waal: Moral behavior in animals | Video on TED.com

Good and evil are simply acts. Acts can only be deemed Good or Evil depending on the consequences of such acts. Over all they are subjective things. A Evil for one man is Good in the eyes of another. There is rarely if ever an example of pure evil or pure good.

Im in the camp of Agnostics, but the spiritual side of me leans towards Islam, particularly the humanistic beliefs embodied by certain teachings. In the realm of belief, i can not say with any certainty that the Universe is random or has a purpose. I would like to assume it has a purpose, but assumptions dont equal facts. To say that the Universe is non random, and that it is all planned out is not based on anything but our own wishful thinking, and to claim otherwise is being dishonest with oneself.