Re: where do
atheists will perish themselves by becomming homo’s ultimately. And, dont use word hunmanity as you believe in randomness instead.
Re: where do
atheists will perish themselves by becomming homo's ultimately. And, dont use word hunmanity as you believe in randomness instead.
Perfect example of why religion is dying. The vitriol of superstition can never challenge reason.
Re: where do
Perfect example of why religion is dying. The vitriol of superstition can never challenge reason.
please explain humanity and and tell me whether you believe in randomness or not?
I shall explain what i mean in my post earlier.
if you dont know what you are talking about then i must say you are poor blind believer of science
Re: where do
please explain humanity and and tell me whether you believe in randomness or not? I shall explain what i mean in my post earlier. if you dont know what you are talking about then i must say you are poor blind believer of science
The discussion here is what is going to happen to religion. Not humanity or the nature of humanity. Religion, around the world, is dying. It will be extinct. It will be good when all religions are dead and buried. Your vitriolic post is perfect example of what religion is...ignorance and hate.
Re: where do
The discussion here is what is going to happen to religion. Not humanity or the nature of humanity. Religion, around the world, is dying. It will be extinct. It will be good when all religions are dead and buried. Your vitriolic post is perfect example of what religion is...ignorance and hate.
lolz
you said religion will disappear and humanity will take its place. Dont know how suddenly humanity became irrelevant :)
I got that you knew defending believe in humanity is so hard for you espacially when you believe in randomness :)
Let me tell others what you people believe and that it is as bad as hell for the humanity.
Atheists believe that the universe is random in most of the senses that it is made, proceeding, and or occurring without definite aim, purpose, reason, or pattern.
That clearly contradicts with concept of humanity as there is no definite aim, purpose or reason so human can do whatever they want, some can even justify the killing, stealing and any other evil in the name of randomness.
Considering that you have nothing to say about humanity, imagine how dreadful it would be if your ideas are floated in the world.
As soon as modern civilization realizes how damaging your ideas are it will start shunning and condemning such ideas.
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Religions like christianty hinduism bhuddism for sure will be brushed aside because they have no answer for lifes affairs but islam is complete ideology political and spirtual and it will will be here for all time whether the secular fundamentalists like it or not.
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lolz
you said religion will disappear and humanity will take its place. Dont know how suddenly humanity became irrelevant :) I got that you knew defending believe in humanity is so hard for you espacially when you believe in randomness :)
Let me tell others what you people believe and that it is as bad as hell for the humanity. Atheists believe that the universe is random in most of the senses that it is made, proceeding, and or occurring without definite aim, purpose, reason, or pattern. That clearly contradicts with concept of humanity as there is no definite aim, purpose or reason so human can do whatever they want, some can even justify the killing, stealing and any other evil in the name of randomness.
Considering that you have nothing to say about humanity, imagine how dreadful it would be if your ideas are floated in the world. As soon as modern civilization realizes how damaging your ideas are it will start shunning and condemning such ideas.
Humanity does have a purpose: survival. People lie, cheat, steal, and kill for resources...to survive. Part of that includes raising their status to attract mates, and to procreate. Again, survival.
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Humanity does have a purpose: survival. People lie, cheat, steal, and kill for resources...to survive. Part of that includes raising their status to attract mates, and to procreate. Again, survival.
humanity has instinct to obey something greater than itself who better than the creator and the one who we should seek guidance from.
Not become animalistic and cheat, lie and steal as you see it or procreate without any restrictions whereby some use animals or worse than that to fulfill this instinct of thiers!
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well there is no creator, so.. problem.
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lolz
you said religion will disappear and humanity will take its place. Dont know how suddenly humanity became irrelevant :) I got that you knew defending believe in humanity is so hard for you espacially when you believe in randomness :)
Let me tell others what you people believe and that it is as bad as hell for the humanity. Atheists believe that the universe is random in most of the senses that it is made, proceeding, and or occurring without definite aim, purpose, reason, or pattern. That clearly contradicts with concept of humanity as there is no definite aim, purpose or reason so human can do whatever they want, some can even justify the killing, stealing and any other evil in the name of randomness.
Considering that you have nothing to say about humanity, imagine how dreadful it would be if your ideas are floated in the world. As soon as modern civilization realizes how damaging your ideas are it will start shunning and condemning such ideas.
Why must everything have a purpose? And the Universe may or may not have been created randomly, but if your logic is that nothing can be born out of "nothingness," then the idea that a supreme being created the Universe doesnt in any way resolve the issue, as it just creates another paradox. Because if you believe that nothing can exist without something preceding it, then how to explain God? There is an inconsistency in that logic that most religious people lazily ignore.
And why must god exist for you to have a sense of right and wrong? Even animals have a sense of right and wrong, its ingrained within is.
Murder, unjustifiable is bad. Stealing is bad, rape is bad etc. I dont need anyone to tell me its that way, I already know it is because I can see that inflicts pain on the recipient. Humans can do anything they want, but society is there to define the limits. That is why we humans always create higher-arches, to impose a sense of order.
Good is simply that which is off greatest beneficence, while bad is that which does the greatest harm.
The belief that morality can only be ascertained through the existence of god doesn't make much sense. We dont need an ultimate arbitrtor, we simply need two eyes to see with, a brain to think with, and a heart to feel with.
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Why must everything have a purpose? And the Universe may or may not have been created randomly, but if your logic is that nothing can be born out of "nothingness," then the idea that a supreme being created the Universe doesnt in any way resolve the issue, as it just creates another paradox. Because if you believe that nothing can exist without something preceding it, then how to explain God? There is an inconsistency in that logic that most religious people lazily ignore.
Things are absurd without purpose, this is the simplest thing to grasp. This world would not exist if it were proceding randomly, again very simple thing to grasp.
Answer to your question that why everything must have a purpose can also be taken from your very next statement "universe may or may not have been created randomly". If something is created not randomly then it must have a purpose.
The logic nothing can exist without something preceding it is bit ambiguous but it proves that atleast one Master of the universe exists, you must agree this. As that Master is unseen so you cant apply this logic to derive the attributes of the Master further unless you are able to quantify unseen. I am not going into details as it can be discussed separately if one wishes.
Whatever the topic is, this is very common among atheists/agnostics that whenever the fail to counter any specific argument they resort to debate of existence of God. If that is to be their ultimate argument then they should not take any argument without getting an empirical proof of existence of God in first place. But that is not the case, they join the debate to counter the arguments of religion and when find it hard to answer then they resort to "proof of existence of God". That is poor approach.
You can discuss humanity and animalism as standalone concept, maybe you could not, if you cannot then that means you admit that there is no difference between humanity and animalism. That again proves my stance correct that ideas such as equating humanity with animalism are as bad as hell for this world.
[QUOTE]
And why must god exist for you to have a sense of right and wrong? Even animals have a sense of right and wrong, its ingrained within is.
Murder, unjustifiable is bad. Stealing is bad, rape is bad etc. I dont need anyone to tell me its that way, I already know it is because I can see that inflicts pain on the recipient. Humans can do anything they want, but society is there to define the limits. That is why we humans always create higher-arches, to impose a sense of order.
Good is simply that which is off greatest beneficence, while bad is that which does the greatest harm.
The belief that morality can only be ascertained through the existence of god doesn't make much sense. We dont need an ultimate arbitrtor, we simply need two eyes to see with, a brain to think with, and a heart to feel with.
[/QUOTE]
Animals by default have the sense of fulfilling bodily needs not sense of right and wrong. Nevertheless, sense of right and wrong is not same as sense of good and evil and acting upon good only accordingly. Islamicaly, there are few ahadith that explains that animals too follow orders of Allah (s.w.t.).
If you believe in randomness then the concept of right and wrong change abruptly as one may only think for himself only not for others that it leads to evil minded selfishness. Following the theory randomness means there is no sense of right and wrong and greatest beneficence and greatest harm. Since you are reluctant to believe in randomness as true and false it is hard carry on arguments.
Can you tell me what scientific reasoning you have to back your claim that animals have sense of right and wrong and the follow it accordingly?
Following are few questions I want you answer.
You too have said nothing about humanity that is special with human only, would you say that humanity does not exist at all?
You said animals posses the sense of right and wrong, would that means there is on boundary between animals and human and we cannot you distinguish human from animals?
Atheists don’t believe in notion of good and evil, would call them wrong on this or not?
Why you are afraid of assuming the randomness true as atheists does?
Re: where do
Humanity does have a purpose: survival. People lie, cheat, steal, and kill for resources...to survive. Part of that includes raising their status to attract mates, and to procreate. Again, survival.
see, you include the evil part of survival in humanity as if this is the only way to survive. however your argument make my assessment more accurate that distinguishing not humanity from animalism is as bad as hell for the world.
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Getting confused. Randomness is bad? Andwhy "must one agree that there has to be a Master of the Universe?". We don't know that, do we?
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Well perhaps some things are absurd without a purpose. But that is how it is. Why try to gleam meaning from something or assume there is meaning if there is none? We simply are… It seems like wishful thinking to assume there must be a purpose to our existence simply because we dont like the consequences of the alternative.
That something is created doeant automatically endow it with purpose. I breath and create Carbon Dioxide, was there a purpose to the creation of CO2 or is it nothing more then a by product of metabolic processes? Similarly, our existance could simply be the result of cosmic metabolic process and our purpose is to simply exist for a time and nothing more.
I only responded to your statement. You said that people assume that the Universe is random. But for it to not be random, I assume you are indicating that you do not believe the Universe is random, implies there must be a creator. But I suppose i went of on a tangent i bit.
I know what your getting at. You are saying that assuming the Universe is Random (without a creator) implies there is no “right or wrong” because there is no ultimate arbitrator to deem something as such. This argument has been made before, and many religious people make this very same argument be they Muslim or Christian etc. But perhaps that is how it is. Perhaps there is no “right or wrong.” Why assume there is anything more then this? Because we dont like the consequences of believing in a Universe where there is ultimately no right or wrong, we assume it must not be?
In regards to your questions:
Research into animals is showing that Animals may well have a sense of right and wrong. Many of our long held assumptions about the cognitive abilities of animals are being challenged by scientific research. Animals feel emotions, they respond to generosity, they shun individuals among them who they perceive as being unjust. Google morality in animals… The gap between humanity and animals seems to be shrinking, and indeed, the only thing that may separate us from them is our ability to do algebra…
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Chimps have ‘sense of fair play’
BBC News - Sharing: Chimp study reveals origins of human fair play
Watch this video, very interesting:
Frans de Waal: Moral behavior in animals | Video on TED.com
Good and evil are simply acts. Acts can only be deemed Good or Evil depending on the consequences of such acts. Over all they are subjective things. A Evil for one man is Good in the eyes of another. There is rarely if ever an example of pure evil or pure good.
Im in the camp of Agnostics, but the spiritual side of me leans towards Islam, particularly the humanistic beliefs embodied by certain teachings. In the realm of belief, i can not say with any certainty that the Universe is random or has a purpose. I would like to assume it has a purpose, but assumptions dont equal facts. To say that the Universe is non random, and that it is all planned out is not based on anything but our own wishful thinking, and to claim otherwise is being dishonest with oneself.
Re: where do
In the sstock trading world, Technical Analysts come up with hokus pokus to make sense of what could very well be noise and to interpret randomness as some pattern that can be extrapolated into the future.
Re gap between humans and animals shrinking - so did gap between Brent and WTI crude disappear recently. ( off topic)
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In the sstock trading world, Technical Analysts come up with hokus pokus to make sense of what could very well be noise and to interpret randomness as some pattern that can be extrapolated into the future.
Re gap between humans and animals shrinking - so did gap between Brent and WTI crude disappear recently. ( off topic)
Stocks! augh. We got our money stuck in Arena. God knows when we can pull it out. Never investing in any Pharmaceuticals again... :(
Do watch the video I posted, its fascinating..
Re: where do
Stocks! augh. We got our money stuck in Arena. God knows when we can pull it out. Never investing in any Pharmaceuticals again... :(
Do watch the video I posted, its fascinating..
Thanks Med. Very interesting video. Animals appear to have more empathy, sense of fairness, and cooperation than humans. The latter are too busy knocking other belief systems. And to use your phrase - engaging in "willfulness ignorance" by equating secularism with atheism. Not that there is anything wrong with athiests.
Re: where do
Things are either absurd or purposeful. Your argument implies that everything is absurd because the idea of purposefulness does not work selectively. Considering the mathematical aegument atheists give either nothing is with purpose or everything is with purpose. The thought that nothing is with purpose again is evil for humanity as it leads to evil minded selfishness. No one needs to bother about the good of others but about himself only. That is again a dreadful thinking. This idea theoratically goes against right and wrong, and imagine how dreadful this world would be without concept of right and wrong. But you said as an argument that that is it is and we are what we are again implies the absurdity.
That was my stance that such ideas will lead the world to absurdity and hell ultimately.
My stance of purposeful world is not wishful thinking its mathematical argument of doing “right step” to solve the problem. But it seems you dont know the right step and persisting with wrong one and will ultimately meet to disaster.
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world without concept of right and wrong will be much more absurd and dangerous for life on earth then currently nonbelievers have made it. for example, for a nonbeliever high rate of collateral damage in Pakistan an Afghanistan is right and acceptable but i am sure the same rate rate of collateral damage in their own country, if at war, will be unacceptable and wrong to them.