Where do you see the Muslim world...

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

…in 50 years’ time? Just wondering how diverse Guppies perceive the ‘state’ of the Muslim quarters to be, in approximately fifty years’ time. Yes i know it will be (at the best) an educated guess and there’s no rational point behind asking this. i’m just curious, no particular reason. Where do you see the countries that are currently part of the Muslim quarter, to be in fifty years’ time? Your answers can be aligned politically/socially/financially/diplomatically - any way you wish to answer. Just curious whether more would see an optimistic, or a pessimistic, view. Will there be closer trading blocs amongst the Muslim countries, larger/lesser numbers of Muslims, what about Muslim populations residing in western countries.. will they become politically more effective? Do you have a bleak view, or a more optimistic one?

Just curious, no other reason for asking this.

2

50 years? I think its gonna get even worse than it is now. The concept, I see nothing and hear nothing will be used more among muslim countries while atrocities occur. This applies socially, politically, financially and diplomatically or any other way the royal assanine idiots can take it. As for the western countries, before it gets any better we have to see the bottom of the warlocks' cauldron err I mean melting pot.

3

muslim world? i'm doubtfull even if islam will be around after 50 years. at the speed people are questioning islam and its teachings and at the speed our so called muslims are abandoning islam for the comforts of the west, i'm not sure we'll have an islamic / muslim world in place 50 years from now. even now majority of the muslims are muslims by name only. their actions don't represent any aspect of islam and its teachings. truly islam is on trial in today's world and what will be the verdict? guilty / innocent? only time will tell.

4

[QUOTE]
muslim world? i'm doubtfull even if islam will be around after 50 years. at the speed people are questioning islam and its teachings and at the speed our so called muslims are abandoning islam for the comforts of the west,
[/QUOTE]

True! what is wrong in ppl questionning any faith. How can one have faith in any philosophy without getting satisfactory answers? The wise would never follow any dogma blindly.

Hinduism/Dharma is around almost 5,000 years, and still going strong.
I hate religion in general, but i give credit to this eastern philosophy that has managed to survive againgst all odds, sheer by practice of questioning its own beleifs.

just glance through this, its from another forum-
here one hindu is answering another hindu-

Quote:

i am in awe of the gita, but will continue to resist accepting it unequivocally.

Spoken like a true Hindu! The Hindu philosophy is not about blind acceptance of religious dogma, but an individual exploration of the nature of the self. Nowhere does it warn you that you will be penalised for asking questions. On the contrary, it believes in teacher-student discourses, where the teacher is merely a facilitator in the student's search for understanding. How many of us can appreciate that?

Quote:

A person can evolve his own theory of life, without any external influence too. Does one really need religious texts for 'guidance'?.)

Again, spoken like a true Hindu. No, we really don't need any religious texts for guidance. Texts are only means to an end; not ends in themselves. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa did not read any religious texts whatsoever, for example. And there are many people who don't read any texts but lead perfectly righteous lives.

The only thing about criticism is we have to differentiate between criticising the philosophy and criticising the practices. These are two different things.

Swami Vivekananda criticised the practices, while extolling the philosophy. He criticised the lack of true understanding of our philosophies among people, and their mindless emphasis on rituals without understanding the spirit behind the rituals. He did not make broad, unfair generalisations.

Some of us, on the other hand, dismiss everything as mumbo-jumbo without even bothering to read or understand what we are criticising, which is surprising, especially considering how much of importance we otherwise attach to carrying out research before drawing conclusions.

Secularism is not about lowering Hindu philosophy of Dharma to the level of other philosophies that tell you to persecute those who don't believe in a particular brand of God, or those who don't accept, word for word, injunctions on how one may conduct each and every act of thought, action or speech every moment of their lives.

All we achieve by such criticism is a disservice to those who may be seeking alternatives to mindless dogmas that they may have traditionally been subjected to in their own environments, or seeking a better understanding of Hinduism.

5

Soul, i think this may be worthy of another topic. A brief response from me: as i understand from reading some of your posts in this Forum, you are an atheist. If this is correct, then i think you should perhaps extend the same respect you want to receive, - towards others. Do not assume that everyone who is Muslim or religious or devoted to their faith is blind and has closed her/his eyes to knowledge and self-exploration and questioning. This is a gross mistake my friend. Do not assume that all "religious" people are narrow minded, dogmatic, literalists, or have shut themselves off from genuine inner exploration. You are making generalizations about all "religious" people in the same manner that i am sure you would hate to have anyone make generalizations about yourself, being an atheist. My point is - just because someone professes to be a "Muslim" or a "Christian" or a "Buddhist" or of whatever faith, do not automatically assume that the person is illiterate to the world's knowledge, and lives wrapped in a cocoon of artifically-created 'truths' and false realities. Some of us who are proud to call ourselves "Muslims", infact have arrived at this pride, subsequent to a long journey of self-introspection that has not really ended, and we pride ourselves on wanting to explore and learn - indeed, we find that the Quran echoes these sentiments. To judge us arbitrarily as either closed-minded, afraid of seeking the truth, afraid of outer and inner exploration, is to indulge - i am afraid - in the same ignorance that you accuse all "religious" people of possessing. Don't paint 'us' all by the same brush; i know not all atheists believe and think in the same manner so i would never dream of judging someone who is atheist without first comprehending their personality. i am just asking that you extend the same respect towards other 'non-atheist' individuals.

CocoNut, i liked "royal assanine idiots"... lol. Do you mind if i ask, what do you mean by this:

[quote]
....before it gets any better we have to see the bottom of the warlocks' cauldron err I mean melting pot.
[/quote]

Zain, To some extent, perhaps, i agree. i also see some hope, though, in the quality of Muslim reverts particularly in nonMuslim countries; based upon my personal experiences, i have found that they are probably more aware of the accurate essences of Islam than many individuals who were raised their whole lives as Muslims. (And i include myself in this latter category). So i think if any hope exists, it may lie with them.

6

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *

True! what is wrong in ppl questionning any faith. How can one have faith in any philosophy without getting satisfactory answers? The wise would never follow any dogma blindly.

Hinduism/Dharma is around almost 5,000 years, and still going strong.
I hate religion in general, but i give credit to this eastern philosophy that has managed to survive againgst all odds, sheer by practice of questioning its own beleifs.

just glance through this, its from another forum-
here one hindu is answering another hindu-

Quote:

i am in awe of the gita, but will continue to resist accepting it unequivocally.

Spoken like a true Hindu! The Hindu philosophy is not about blind acceptance of religious dogma, but an individual exploration of the nature of the self. Nowhere does it warn you that you will be penalised for asking questions. On the contrary, it believes in teacher-student discourses, where the teacher is merely a facilitator in the student's search for understanding. How many of us can appreciate that?

Quote:

A person can evolve his own theory of life, without any external influence too. Does one really need religious texts for 'guidance'?.)

Again, spoken like a true Hindu. No, we really don't need any religious texts for guidance. Texts are only means to an end; not ends in themselves. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa did not read any religious texts whatsoever, for example. And there are many people who don't read any texts but lead perfectly righteous lives.

The only thing about criticism is we have to differentiate between criticising the philosophy and criticising the practices. These are two different things.

Swami Vivekananda criticised the practices, while extolling the philosophy. He criticised the lack of true understanding of our philosophies among people, and their mindless emphasis on rituals without understanding the spirit behind the rituals. He did not make broad, unfair generalisations.

Some of us, on the other hand, dismiss everything as mumbo-jumbo without even bothering to read or understand what we are criticising, which is surprising, especially considering how much of importance we otherwise attach to carrying out research before drawing conclusions.

Secularism is not about lowering Hindu philosophy of Dharma to the level of other philosophies that tell you to persecute those who don't believe in a particular brand of God, or those who don't accept, word for word, injunctions on how one may conduct each and every act of thought, action or speech every moment of their lives.

All we achieve by such criticism is a disservice to those who may be seeking alternatives to mindless dogmas that they may have traditionally been subjected to in their own environments, or seeking a better understanding of Hinduism.
[/QUOTE]

Soul i think you need to look into the rational creed of islam before you start making judgements. If you want we can start a new post to discuss that.

7

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
**CocoNut, i liked "*royal assanine idiots"... lol. Do you mind if i ask, what do you mean by this:

quote:

....before it gets any better we have to see the bottom of the warlocks' cauldron err I mean melting pot.

[/QUOTE]

A country's philosphy that it is the melting pot, reality is there is a lot more brewing than what is shown on the front hence the warlocks' cauldron instead of using the traditional melting pot. Now guess who is the warlock :p and henchmen.

Before things get better they have to get worse. The true believers will overcome as will the true faith but not anytime soon till we stop all the infiltration in the name of war and ignorance is swept clean.

Shall we stop closing our eyes and ears? Stop with conspiracy theories? We can't even come together, let alone form a unified front, no wonder they're having us for the main course.

8

[QUOTE]
To judge us arbitrarily as either closed-minded, afraid of seeking the truth, afraid of outer and inner exploration, is to indulge - i am afraid - in the same ignorance that you accuse all "religious" people of possessing.
[/QUOTE]

may be you should read this, irony is this is from this forum itself, an answer to one of my query.

[QUOTE]
 1.In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. 

140.And it has already been revealed to you in the Book (this Qur'an) that when you hear the Verses of Allah being denied and mocked at, then sit not with them, until they engage in a talk other than that; (but if you stayed with them) certainly in that case you would be like them. Surely, Allah will collect the hypocrites and disbelievers all together in Hell, 

68.And when you (Muhammad SAW) see those who engage in a false conversation about Our Verses (of the Qur'an) by mocking at them, stay away from them till they turn to another topic. And if Shaitan (Satan) causes you to forget, then after the remembrance sit not you in the company of those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.). 

 55.And when they hear Al-Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk), they withdraw from it and say: "To us our deeds, and to you your deeds. Peace be to you. We seek not the ignorant." 
[/QUOTE]

9

Within 50 years inshaAlah, the process of reawakening will take a new turn. The rising aspirations of the Ummah will inshaAllah find a direction. I think that first many governments will change, and will represent the people. The understanding of Islam and will increase, and people will realize more what the truth is.

A big change will come in the western countries, where Islam will be emerge as a rising force (6% growth rate).

Muslim media will mature and will be able to protect its rights and knowledge will spread. It will not be a one sided media only, as media with an Islamic vision will appear. Extremism in the Muslim world will disappear as true understanding of Islam increases.

Interaction between Muslim countries will increase, as it will be the only way to survive, and get freedom from the new imperialism. Secularism will find no place in the hearts and minds of people, and it will be an ideaology long discarded by many nations. As time passes, people will realize the modernism and dynamism of Islam, and that it holds the solution of problems in this world and most most most importantly in the Hereafter!

Allah knows best, what lies ahead, but I am sure of one thing, and that is, that the Muslim world has already passed through its dark ages.

10

Nobody can really predict whats coming in tomorrow or next minute, its almost impossible to say what is in the bag for us in 50 years from now.

This is my extrapolation of present and recent past.

Very likely, polarisation of societies will continue. Muslims who are religious because of their belief (and not because they were born Muslims) will grow stronger in belief while loosely attached will become more secular and perhaps will become Muslims by name only. Though we already have large number of Muslims by name, it will increase radically. Any immdediate movement to awaken Muslims (sincerely) is unlikely. The tough time will remain for a while testing the belief of Muslims.

Allah swt knows what is to come, may He grant us all the guidance.

11

there always will be rise and decline of civilisations if you read
the history this cycle will continue.

12

50 years…I wonder, there were days when Islam was symbolized with a sword, is decorated now with new technological weaponry.
I wonder, if Bin Laden had an approach to nuclear weaponry, could he have a second thought for experimenting it against disbelievers.
I wonder the way we face a threat to peace, will there be fifty years?

By the way we must learn to enjoy life, not looking at the religion all the time.

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yahudi: *
50 years…I wonder, there were days when Islam was symbolized with a sword, is decorated now with new technological weaponry.
I wonder, if Bin Laden had an approach to nuclear weaponry, could he have a second thought for experimenting it against disbelievers.
I wonder the way we face a threat to peace, will there be fifty years?
[/quote]

The way world is being bombed, one could wonder if there would be any part remaining!

[quote]
By the way we must learn to enjoy life, not looking at the religion all the time.
[/QUOTE]

That would be your religion which may be ignorable. Ours is not, we have to be looking at our religion so we can be righteous :p

14

where we would be in 50 years..that depends on what we do today.
so where do you want tit to be, how do you want it for your future generations.

start working towards it, all of us have the ability to make an impact. diff people may want diff things for the future. I agree with some I disagree with some, and i disagree with the approach of some, but that should not stop me from trying in whatever capacity to make an impact.

I think things will get worse, but there is a potential of things getting better or things getting worse still depending on how our leaders, governments, and masses approach it.

15

Wow...what a GREAT question.

I am not as pessimistic as many on here. I do think that there is huge potential for things to get better. Like it or not 9/11 really shook Muslims up to look at themselves and really want to change our directions. I think that introspection and self-criticism has led to folks like Mathiur (sp) speaking out as he did and getting so much attention...and hopefully the thinking will lead to doing better.

I also think that Muslims in South Africa, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Americas are amazing, learning a lot and doing a lot. My co-worker just told me about a Filipina friend who reverted, along with her husband and many of their filipina friends. There are stories like this everywhere and I think the only reason that we’re growing so fast is because we are offering people something….we just need to take advantage of our numbers and be better communities and less victims.

16

From army officers sending letters to an opposition leader, to an opposition leader arrested on the night of the election, from 600,000 people affected by a separation wall already under occupation to 17 people killed in residential neighborhood living under a despotic king. These are the things which are going on in the muslim majority areas of the world. Its serves as sporadic gunfire in a “muted” full-scale war front.

The problem with most of the muslims is that they ponder and bicker about these smaller incidents, and come up with their opinions and justifications on the bases of these acts. Are these killings justified? Where these attacks justified? Is the opposition leader a traitor? …. But fail to realize that there is a bigger war going on their door front.

Just 50 years ago armies rolled over from foreign lands to “help” themselves in a war in which we were not part of…based on their own whims and wishes they created countries after countries, running short of names, allowed people to name countries after people. But when their bellies were full, they left leaving behind their puppets and agents so that the need for “help” never ends.

Nobody wants to live in his own house as a prisoner, people do retaliate against that. Again and again when people retaliated, there were questions of justification, but nobody would take a step back and ask why occupation (direct or indirect) was justified. Within these 50 years we have created a creed of people who would justify the state that we are in. They want us to accept that the countries or the systems they have maintained are some how ordained by god (or may be their gods). The sense of right and wrong is dictated, the only organized institution left is the army and it is used to rule and crush dissent.

So now after fifty years there is this need to reshape the “colonies”. So the armies are back again to “help”. But this time the help is real, but just for one country they have created for some divine reason. People with power and wealth are making sure that all the threats to this tiny democracy in the Middle East are neutralized. To further secure Israel the latest victim was Syria last night. The next “unpredictable” country would be Saudi Arabia, just like dominos each and every country is being neutralized. As Mr. Berlusconi of Italy just said "no intimidation by a bombing will budge us from our willingness to “help” that country." They are determined to “help”, as they were determined 50 yers ago.

The problem is we have lost our sense of justice, we believe the justifications that we are told in the name of help. The onus is on us, we should have asked the first time when they came here to help. So what you see now is the result of not asking the question. So stop looking for justifications. The system of countries created by the super powers of the world is just there to help them, nothing more. So until we say no to this “help” the next fifty years are not going to be any different.

17

very well said :k:
we ask about justifications but we don’t try to look at the causes that brought the destruction in the first place. once cornered, you have only two options, give up and become a slave or hit back and get your freedom back or die fighting fot it. few days ago 17 ppl got killed in saudia and all i read was people asking whether it is justified to kill people or no? i want to ask if it ever right to kill people for any reason? whether they are killed by troops or terrorists? latter is more logical.

i for one see no future for islam and muslims until they are ready to voice their opinions and objections in manner that will make others listen to them. sadly muslims today are more comfortable in following that leading. and when you are ok being a follower you lose the sense of selecting a good leader. they are like a herd of sheeps. anyone can lead them in any direction and they’ll follow without any hesitation and those who object as termed as black sheeps and are these slaughtered to appease the leader.

18

CocoNut, i am sorry, i am just trying to understand your analogy, not trying to get on your nerves by asking you to constantly clarify. But the warlords are the ‘western’ political leaders, and the henchmen are us? Is that right? i agree with this statement, can’t even come together, let alone form a unified front. That’s why personally i think that Muslim reverts may actually form a more united front one day - politically and all the other ways as well. Because they seem to be less obsessed with sectarianism and ‘culturalism’ than individuals like me who are raised as Muslims. i remember attending a speech at my uni given by Sheikh Yusuf Estes (or as he calls himself, the “fun sheikh”). After the first 15 minutes in which he introduced himself, cracked jokes, got us all laughing - he became suddenly very serious when he started talking about Muslim youths and our future and how many of us are obsessed with creating divisions amongst ourselves. i’ll never forget how he emphasized that we were “killing ourselves” because of this infighting.

Soul, i think i preferred your original, unedited reply :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s interesting that Islamabad is the only one (out of these responses) who believes that the Muslim world has ‘passed through its dark ages’. Although i am not certain if i agree with it, it’s a relief to even read that from someone - at least someone has the hope, even if i lack it myself.

KashmiriGirl, :flower1: Thanks. i completely agree with you - i think Muslims in less-acknowledged countries ARE doing so much. You know, there are news reports almost every week (through google news) of whole Muslim families reverting in places like Brunei. Don’t hear about it much, unfortunately. Yes you are right, in a weird way - 9-11 was a wake up call.

MiniMe :flower1: That was extremely well-written. Thanks for taking the time to type out your thoughts. Do you mind if i ask - when you state, So until we say no to this “help” the next fifty years are not going to be any different - that onus is upon our corrupt Muslim leaders (the emirs in SA, Kuwait, etc.) as well as upon the masses, right? Muslim leaders are quick to condemn the ‘west’ but equally quick to jump into bed with them when political/financial (oil) interests are at stake.

BTW this isn’t related at all, but i’ve read many of your comments around the forums; do you mind if i ask - are you a guy or a gal? :o Just wondering.

IMHO if our dark ages have truly passed, then we need stronger, wiser, more honest Muslim political officials who are courageous enough to live by Islamic principles.. and unfortunately i don’t see any Muslim leader thus far who really embodies that principle for me.

19

IMO, Just like Islamabad Said, Muslim Gov.ts will change dramatically... i think it is time now just like in urdu we say "BOHOT HO GAYA" I think its time for Muslim umma to rise.. especially after the war of Iraq. I think this is the spark that the whole muslim world was waiting. Very shortly the whole middle east will go through a change i think they will unite together to from one big force to fight against Israel and US. And that will be the start of financial, politcal reform in the islamic world. This is just my opinion and i am saying that because i follow the news of that area very very closley and let me tell you the patience of the people of that region is worn out. Not to change the topic but , Americans are already defeated in Iraq they say they have won the war but they very well know they are defeated in flying colors. Its just the start Muslim Ummah is soon to rise.

Secondly, In the past Allah S.w.t Crushed and destroyed the whole Ummat one one single wrong doing I.e " Naap Toul Mein Kami " This Ummat used to cheat on their regular business doing big time. They were destroyed. Qayamat ki nishanoun mein saye bari bari nishaaniya .. Men will wear Woman Clothes and vice Versa, People with play with Gods creates, ( manupilating human genes, cloning and all ). So it might not be like the VERY start of Qiyamaat but surely as per Quran and All... Muslims will rise .. and i think this is the time.. and it is only going to happen when we will be united. Hope this happen soons.... Especially where i live JEWS ARE GETTING ON MY NERVES WITH THEIR BIASED THINKINGS. May Allah Unite us...

-Salman

20

I don't really see anything but i guess that situation would improve. I think muslims are atleast beginning to think about themselves as a nation again. I don't mean all of them because that would just solve all the problems we are facing today. But i think little by little we are taking a step in right direction. I hope future is brighter than present.