In your life how do you draw the line,
Between right and wrong?
Between humor and indecency?
Between excusable and inexcusable? (when it comes to others actions)
In the light of what you really are like in real life (not how you want to be); What are the standards and boundaries you have set for yourself regarding these and why?
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
Live and let live. <-- live by it and you shall have my blessing.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
Alright seriously, it varies from person to person. Our sense of right and wrong, decency and indecency develops and evolves as we grow up, we learn from our environment, mostly from the people that we interact with.
Personally, I think as long as you are not hurting anyone physically or emotionally, and your joke is understood and taken in the same sense in which you intended it to, its all good. Plus you have a different level of understanding and frankness with different groups of people. The kind of jokes I will do with my friends, I wont with my family, or elders, or teachers etc. I think pretty much everybody has that sense, and it develops with age. Even when you are with your friends, and there is a stranger in the gathering (perhaps a friend's friend or relative), you would choose your words a bit more cautiously.
Right and wrong, excusable and inexcusable - that is all relative. There is no common standard yardstick and it will always vary from person to person. Again, personally, as long as something is not hurting someone physically or emotionally, I wouldn't let it bother me. I try not to be down someone's throat with my own set of rules teaching them what is acceptable and what is not. We all know our right from wrong, that is pretty much common sense, its a matter of how much we are willing to step across the line.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
In the Quran Allah (Swt) calls human to be Jahil (illiterate), Zalim (cruel), impatient, thankless...etc. (Except for the Prophets who are pure of all sins). So definitelty you and me can't conclude on our own any strategy for ourselves. We need divine guidance in every aspect of life, for which prophets are sent. Also, our life in this world is too short and unpredictable to first experience everything ourselves and then decide the line between the right and wrong. Man needs a guide, whose words and actions help him through every difficulty in life, to be able to make the right decision. We are lucky to have the example of our Prophet (saw) and Suhabas to look up to and follow their foot steps. In short the suhabas moto was:
Do good, encourage others to do good (politely and sincerely). Don't do wrong, allow others to stop you from doing wrong (even if they are rude & even if they do it harshly). Always discourage bad deeds (through wisdom, by preserving the self respect of the sinner) and always allow others to force you to do good, even if they do it by degrading you. My dignity doesn't matter. Others dignity and grace should matter to me. Guidance of everyone matters but I should start from myself because my ear is the closest to my mouth. What I say should first go into my own ear than anyone else. No matter how many good deeds I do and how many bad deeds my brother does, I don't have any right to even think of him to be lower than me, not even for a second, let alone saying it.
*Hazrat Umar (r.a) said: My friend is not the one who tells me my good qualities, but the one who tells me my faults and the flaws in my character. *
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
Alright seriously, it varies from person to person. Our sense of right and wrong, decency and indecency develops and evolves as we grow up, we learn from our environment, mostly from the people that we interact with.
Yes, that is a defining factor - the societal pressure and norms as well as one's family setting and all, but at one point in our adult lives we do think about it independently, making rules and boundaries for ourselves just to be on the safe side.
Personally, I think as long as you are not hurting anyone physically or emotionally, and your joke is understood and taken in the same sense in which you intended it to, its all good. Plus you have a different level of understanding and frankness with different groups of people. The kind of jokes I will do with my friends, I wont with my family, or elders, or teachers etc. I think pretty much everybody has that sense, and it develops with age. Even when you are with your friends, and there is a stranger in the gathering (perhaps a friend's friend or relative), you would choose your words a bit more cautiously. Agreed. Right and wrong, excusable and inexcusable - that is all relative. There is no common standard yardstick and it will always vary from person to person. Again, personally, as long as something is not hurting someone physically or emotionally, I wouldn't let it bother me. I try not to be down someone's throat with my own set of rules teaching them what is acceptable and what is not. We all know our right from wrong, that is pretty much common sense, its a matter of how much we are willing to step across the line.
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Re: Where do you draw the ___?
Drawing the line......and where.....these are things which work very deep inside your head....and can't really be described.....there are different factors,motivations,pressures etc etc which contribute towards ur 'line drawing' and how and in what way the work together is different for every person....
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
In the Quran Allah (Swt) calls human to be Jahil (illiterate), Zalim (cruel), impatient, thankless...etc. (Except for the Prophets who are pure of all sins). So definitelty you and me can't conclude on our own any strategy for ourselves. We need divine guidance in every aspect of life, for which prophets are sent. Also, our life in this world is too short and unpredictable to first experience everything ourselves and then decide the line between the right and wrong. Man needs a guide, whose words and actions help him through every difficulty in life, to be able to make the right decision. We are lucky to have the example of our Prophet (saw) and Suhabas to look up to and follow their foot steps. In short the suhabas moto was:
Do good, encourage others to do good (politely and sincerely). Don't do wrong, allow others to stop you from doing wrong (even if they are rude & even if they do it harshly). Always discourage bad deeds (through wisdom, by preserving the self respect of the sinner) and always allow others to encourage you to do good, even if they do it by degrading you. My dignity doesn't matter. Others dignity and grace should matter to me. Guidance of everyone matters but it should start from myself.
*Hazrat Umar (r.a) said: My friend is not the one who tells me my good qualities, but the one who tells me my faults and the flaws in my character. *
Yes, but how much of this do you apply to your real life, around your friends, your family, strangers etc. I mean practically, keeping all the above in mind what can you absolutely not do or tolerate from others. I am sure your friends or family members do wrong things sometimes, how much do you interfere at that time.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
You need divine guidance to distinguish between right and wrong? What about atheists? Shouldn't they go around killing everyone, stirring up all sorts of harm and impairment since they don't believe in god and hence the divine guidance? What about a person who was not born a muslim, and the message of islam never reached him? And he goes about his normal business, just like you and me, earns a livelihood, raises a family, is his sense of right and wrong flawed? I think its more humanity and morality, that is what every religion is based on, and that is exactly what we have let go and we are desperately holding on more to the fake sense of self righteousness. People treat other people like absolute garbage, but they will whip out an ayat or two, or a sunnah or two when you mention some complicated detail of consummation or marriage or inheritence.
Perhaps we should keep our mind open to the fact that pretty much all of us have the concept and idea of right and wrong, of humanity and the sense of morality. That is something we learn from our elders and our environment, and it develops, refines and evolves as we grow older and have more experiences. The mere fact that you belong to a particular religion/sect/race/whatever doesn't automatically make you a better human being with a superior sense of right and wrong. It is something we learn as a natural process, and whether or not we decide to comply with it, and to what degree we decide to comply with it, that is a personal choice.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
'Ways' of the person MOST dear to Allah (Swt), & Hikmah (Wisdom) are the keys, which a human can't attain on his own. Of course one should try ones level best, but Allah (swt) can bless it to anyone Allah wants, even if that person hasn't tried enough for it. But generaly our duty is to pray humbly to Allah (swt) to bless us with this treasure so that we may be able to contribute in not only this life of people related to us, but also to their life of the hereafter, which is more precuious and everlasting. The Prophet (Saw) never pointed finger at anyone or used pinching words for anyone. His words and actions were such that people used to not only understand the message but also their hearts were filled with the passion to do good, without even geting any hint of who the actual sinner was whom the prophet had corrected.
We have to accept that no matter how much anyone of us try, he can't invent a way of life (principles) that could become more dear to Allah (Swt) than the ways and principles of the Prophet (saw). Because the prophet (saw) never said or did anything without Allah's will.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
Okay I’ll give my bit on this now.
I have the ability to discern b/w right and wrong firstly through the ingrained values and habits and the way I was trained to think. But at a later stage the most defining factor for me became religion. I draw the line b/w sin and good deeds via religion - I do my part of the sins but I draw the line to where these bad deeds do not effect others. I can’t do the big major sins because of fear, so here fear draws the line for me - the things I can’t imagine doing due to this fear. I will never drink alcohol because I am too scared, that for me is way over the line even though I’ll be the only one effected by it.
Similarly humor is something I just accept or reject instinctively, there are indecent jokes I would feel guilty about laughing at and others that I’ll be shocked and embarrassed at. Yes it also depends who is it coming from but I am referring to other than family. That’s how I draw the line. A thread about why do men… is fine, but a thread about… girl issues… is just not okay for me. That’s how I draw the line - as far as I feel comfortable it’s okay. Otherwise I’ll just stay our t of it.
It’s excusable unless it’s not directly effecting, or offending me. Even though what RAW said is true about rejecting wrong, but the truth is if you start doing that there is so much wrong in our society… people would just start hating you. (t’s wrong I know but i’m guilty of that) There’s too much privacy, personalization, personal space, freedom of speech now-a-days. You can’t fix everyone, you can make sure about yourself though. That’s how I draw the line.
I hope I made sense. 
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
I'm not sure if I'm answering the question, but in general I find it funny that the liberals are as intolerant of the conservatives as the conservatives are judgmental of liberals. I'm just using those terms loosely.
The moment somebody posts a traditional line of thought or something inclined with religion and not humanity, they are accused of being holier than thou. Why? Partly because it casts their way of life in an unacceptable light.
Similarly, the minute somebody mentions a radical, non traditional opinion, the conservatives get hung up. Why? Because it doesn't appeal *their *sense of morality.
Both groups get offended too quickly. Live and let live. In the true sense.
PS: hadn't read the prior posts. Lol.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
^ good post... I was thinking on the same lines - there is too much intolerance. You just can't force your ideology on someone, whether liberal or traditional.
Perhaps we should keep our mind open to the fact that pretty much all of us have the concept and idea of right and wrong, of humanity and the sense of morality. That is something we learn from our elders and our environment, and it develops, refines and evolves as we grow older and have more experiences. The mere fact that you belong to a particular religion/sect/race/whatever doesn't automatically make you a better human being with a superior sense of right and wrong. It is something we learn as a natural process, and whether or not we decide to comply with it, and to what degree we decide to comply with it, that is a personal choice.
In other words we shouldn't judge others, except through their actions.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
when people deliberately and knowingly set out to harm or disrespect others, there's where the line of tolerance and acceptance ends for me.
tolerance ends where harm begins.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
We should not judge others but others should not give us reasons to judge them either. e.g. someone lying to you and you know that he/she is lying, how you will not judge him/her as a liar? I have heard it numerous times , dont judge others etc but really sometimes its so clear that you cannot help making your judgement.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
We should not judge others but others should not give us reasons to judge them either. e.g. someone lying to you and you know that he/she is lying, how you will not judge him/her as a liar? I have heard it numerous times , dont judge others etc but really sometimes its so clear that you cannot help making your judgement.
exactly.....'judging' and 'generalizing' are two terms tossed around so much.......but when u say someone is judging..u urself are judging that person......
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
This whole 'don't judge' thing that people do is just meaningless usage of pretty words. It sounds amazing and lovely and of some higher order that lowly, ignorant people cannot grasp. But doesn't hold any weight.
We all judge. We all stereotype. It's a defense mechanism, in one way. If we don't, then we won't live a normal life.
The problem starts when we bring that maliciousness/arrogance etc. into our words and actions directed toward other people who we disagree with.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
exactly :k:…i think those people who throw these words at others are the ones who are judging and generalizing…
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
So I guess the whole thing is about being real and being yourself all the time, online and in real life both.
so whats this thread about ? 
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
The thread was about where you draw the lines in your life.
About the judgment part - I think judging is when you start basing your views by assuming what the other person believes. Yes we have to judge others in order to understand them but such judgement never allow us to come to a common ground and discuss things rationally, when you've already made your mind about them. If we start putting people into stereotypes, we will never be able to truly understand them as individuals. That's what I strongly believe, it's not just pretty usage of words, it;s an attitude that sompeople have towards everyone but themselves.
Re: Where do you draw the ___?
This is generalization - ‘the people’ who do this and this are so and so. Why don’t you look at what is being said. I am not saying generalizing is always bad, but to attack an individual’s views on such basis is wrong.